Alcohol and Children

[EasterJoy]

According to Oregon law (ORS 471.410(2): “A parent or legal guardian may provide alcohol to their minor child in a private residence as long as the parent is with the minor child.”

I am NOT talking about furnishing alcohol to minors in a situation where it is illegal or in an amount that would cause any amount of intoxication. In other words, I’m not talking about a violation of civil or moral law, but ONLY those situations where moral and civil law permit it.

Question One: If you live in a jurisdiction that permits the consumption of alcohol by minors, do you allow your child to consume alcohol in moderate (that is moral) amounts?

We allow our children a small amount of wine with some special meals. It is not habitual and it is well below an intoxicating amount for a person of their age and weight. Keep in mind that vanilla extract is 35% alcohol (70 proof), and it is routinely added at the end of recipes when it is not cooked. Few people really give their children zero alcohol. Many, however, do not give their children alcohol in a form that is recognizable as alcohol.

Question Two: Has your child ever seen you or the adults you associate with drink enough alcohol that it alters your behavior negatively or your ability to drive? What is your view about that?

We have never been impaired to the point that we’re slurring words, having trouble with motor control, getting loud, or the like. As far as I know, we have no one in our family who ever gets to that point, let alone in front of kids. (A few start losing their judgment about giving “too much information,” however.) We–my husband or I, that is–have had enough that we’ve said, “You know, I can feel this” or “I know my weight and how much I’ve had” and then “I won’t be driving tonight.” In other words, we have had more than one or two glasses of wine over the course of a Thanksgiving celebration.

**I guess the overall question is: **Do your children ever get alcohol in a social setting, how much do you drink in that kind of setting yourself, and what does that have to do with how the adults in your family or social circle handle social drinking at big holidays (or how that was handled when you were young yourself)?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

My oldest is 15, he has an injury to his cerebellum, so alcohol use for him is not recommended because it would exasperate his symptoms. My other 2 are still pretty young that it hasn’t come up.

But I growing up, I always had some form of alcohol, be it some wine mixed with ginger ale about a teaspoon of wine to about 6 ounces of soda, or a sip of beer from my dad, or to champagne on New Years.

I didn’t abuse alcohol in high school or college when many of my peers were drinking to excess. I have an occasional glass of wine or ale. Or limoncello.

 

[Irishmom2]

Nope. Never gave alcohol to children. Not even in late teens. It sends a message that we think it is okay for them to drink, when we don’t. Brains are still growing and developing, they do not need alcohol. We have never had the thought that our children should have alcohol because we were trying to teach that it was for adults only, and also that it is illegal for them to drink underage. So letting them drink at home defeats that message.

We have had drinks in front of our children, and had parties where adults have had drinks. Only once did a friend have too much to drink. It was a teaching moment. The children were unaware that it was alcohol that caused this person’s actions. They just thought he was funny. We are not the type to drink to excess. My daughter recently said that she has never seen either of her parents drunk. She is in her mid twenties and a responsible drinker.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

We did a fancy dinner with champagne before our daughter went off to college - but that may not fit everyone’s definition of “child,” although legally she was. Before then, she may have had a taste of wine at her grandparents’ home during a visit (who lived in the Sonoma wine-producing area of California).

 

[macstar]

Growing up we occasionally had a sip of alcohol from a parent’s glass- beer, wine, liquor. I never saw more than one glass being consumed. Tasting it de-sensationalized alcohol when reaching teen/young adulthood.

No one in my family has too much at family gatherings where only adults drink alcohol. This includes liquor, beer and wine. The family regularly enjoys tasting different types of a particular liqueur, comparing it to other brands. I guess question two depends on the family, genetic makeup (predisposition toward addiction), and environment.

 

[1ke]

Question One: If you live in a jurisdiction that permits the consumption of alcohol by minors, do you allow your child to consume alcohol in moderate (that is moral) amounts?

In Texas, in addition to serving in home, parents or over-21 spouses of minors and under-21 adults can also purchase drinks at restaurants for the minor.

I don’t have children. But if I did, yes I would. Particularly wine at dinner or a toast at a celebration. We aren’t big drinkers otherwise, but I wouldn’t make it taboo or off limits.

In my own youth, it was not off limits/taboo, and as high schoolers we were allowed to drink at family gatherings. IMHO maybe too much, as several beach weekends definitely included some serious margarita drinking by the 16-18 crowd. Of course, back then, the drinking age was 18.

We allow our children a small amount of wine with some special meals. It is not habitual and it is well below an intoxicating amount for a person of their age and weight. Keep in mind that vanilla extract is 35% alcohol (70 proof), and it is routinely added at the end of recipes when it is not cooked. Few people really give their children zero alcohol. Many, however, do not give their children alcohol in a form that is recognizable as alcohol.

I don’t think its anyone’s business what you do. I certainly don’t think you need to justify it to the level of comparing it to the alcohol content of vanilla extract. Do what you think is best. Wine with dinner is totally fine.

Question Two: Has your child ever seen you or the adults you associate with drink enough alcohol that it alters your behavior negatively or your ability to drive? What is your view about that?

I can only answer that I have seen my parents and grandparents do so. But not the driving part, as it was always at home or at the beach house and no one was driving anywhere.

I would not compromise my ability to drive, or would arrange for transportation.

I don’t think it’s good for children to be habitually exposed to a drunken parent-- a relative of ours has a drinking problem, and routinely is inebriated at home or at youth sporting events. NOT COOL. That’s not the same as seeing your parents drink with moderation, on occasion, or that one time they had a little too much at cousin TIlly’s wedding.

**I guess the overall question is: **Do your children ever get alcohol in a social setting, how much do you drink in that kind of setting yourself, and what does that have to do with how the adults in your family or social circle handle social drinking at big holidays (or how that was handled when you were young yourself)?

If I had them, they would. I don’t see anything wrong with an occasional drink. We have special drinks at Christmas and New Years in my husband’s family, they are alcoholic drinks and the older nieces/nephews (high schoolers) are allowed to have some.

I think that the US is entirely too infected with Protestant, Puritanical belief systems that distort the traditional role of wine and other beverages in the role of family, meals, and celebration.

Try not to let that mindset control you.

 

[vincexjt]

My mother always said it would be a sin to waste alchol when there are children forced to go to bed sober!

 

[Lea101]

The legal age here is 18, and my dad only allow us to drink normally after our 18th. Before that, he would allow sips or very diluted forms of alcohol (eg sprite with a dash of alcohol).

I’m definitely not against this at all. It might seem frustrating if you are a teenager trying to be cool and edgy though.

My dad does drink a lot. He’s practically an alcoholic and is rather a flawed person so we usually associate alcohol with…that. My brothers are old enough to drink. The oldest hates the taste of alcohol and the other drinks but not enough to get drunk. I do take vodka or stuff like wine but I always made sure I won’t get drunk and I don’t do it often.

I do get that it’s quite a unique experience, because I know that a lot of children tend to drink more if they see their parents doing that

 

[Allegra]

IMO, it is in the best interest of children to have the appropriate and moderate use of alcohol modeled for them. For that reason, we will probably allow our children to drink moderate amounts of wine with special meals. We do not drink profusely, so we don’t have to moderate our behavior. So far, we have not had to be concerned about excessive drinking by other adults in our childrens’ lives, but I do worry about my children seeing their aunts, uncles, and grandparents smoking like chimneys. It is something that really bothers me, but my family has made is clear that they have no intention of changing their smoking habits around my children, beyond the decency of not doing it inside my home. (on the back porch is another story) Taking a hardline on this would require severely limiting my children’s contact with their extended family.

I absolutely HATE smoking. It has literally ruined my parents’ lives. They are both extremely sick from it. My step-father has lost two jobs and nearly set the house of fire because of it. My mother can’t enjoy so much of the things that she used to enjoy because of it. She can’t travel outside of roadtrips because she can’t stand the flight process. She can’t enjoy the theater and other venues because of smoking restrictions. She’s literally lost many friends because she no longer enjoys socializing in other people’s homes because all she can think about is more smokes. I guess I’m hoping that seeing the negative example along with my teaching them about it will be enough to keep my kids away from smoking. My daughter has already been disappointed by her grandma missing her blowing out her birthday candles because she was out on the porch.

 

[heidi_storage]

Hey now, 1ke! Puritans didn’t object to alcohol, though they didn’t approve of drunkenness. Blame the Baptists, maybe, or some Methodists.

 

[EasterJoy]

In Texas, in addition to serving in home, parents or over-21 spouses of minors and under-21 adults can also purchase drinks at restaurants for the minor.

I don’t have children. But if I did, yes I would. Particularly wine at dinner or a toast at a celebration. We aren’t big drinkers otherwise, but I wouldn’t make it taboo or off limits.

In my own youth, it was not off limits/taboo, and as high schoolers we were allowed to drink at family gatherings. IMHO maybe too much, as several beach weekends definitely included some serious margarita drinking by the 16-18 crowd. Of course, back then, the drinking age was 18.

I don’t think its anyone’s business what you do. I certainly don’t think you need to justify it to the level of comparing it to the alcohol content of vanilla extract. Do what you think is best. Wine with dinner is totally fine.

I can only answer that I have seen my parents and grandparents do so. But not the driving part, as it was always at home or at the beach house and no one was driving anywhere.

I would not compromise my ability to drive, or would arrange for transportation.

I don’t think it’s good for children to be habitually exposed to a drunken parent-- a relative of ours has a drinking problem, and routinely is inebriated at home or at youth sporting events. NOT COOL. That’s not the same as seeing your parents drink with moderation, on occasion, or that one time they had a little too much at cousin TIlly’s wedding.

If I had them, they would. I don’t see anything wrong with an occasional drink. We have special drinks at Christmas and New Years in my husband’s family, they are alcoholic drinks and the older nieces/nephews (high schoolers) are allowed to have some.

I think that the US is entirely too infected with Protestant, Puritanical belief systems that distort the traditional role of wine and other beverages in the role of family, meals, and celebration.

Try not to let that mindset control you.

I have to admit: You have so much common sense when it comes to human nature, it is hard to believe you have not been through the crucible of parenthood. (I’m wagering you’ve been through something, correct? Have you lived in a religious community? Have you worked at a parish office or for a bishop?)

Just to clarify: This is more of a poll than a question. We’ve raised our two boys, and we tried to do it with appropriate family use that they have been allowed to join with at appropriate levels.

Our boys are 18. They’ve been allowed wine since they were off the baby bottle and coffee since they were four. (They’ve had sips of hard liquor, but don’t like it because it is “too hot.” They like the smell of a good brandy, but don’t want a sip.) The “there is alcohol in vanilla extract” thing was because I’ve run into so many parents who thought their child was going to wind up in reform school if ethyl alcohol ever allowed to pass over their innocent lips.

When our boys were little (five or six?), we had these tiny little cordial glasses for them for their wine, and they got maybe a tablespoon–less than the amount of alcohol in a teaspoon of vanilla extract. The amount grew until I’d say that now they get a 5 oz. glass, only with a meal, at 18 years old and 160 lb. That’s it. One glass…but it is good stuff and they know a good wine when they drink one. My policy is that the incidence of alcoholism is highly correlated to the first experience with drunkenness, so their consumption really has to stay short of what would cause a “buzz.”

My other policy acknowledges that alcoholism arises mainly not just from genetics but from self-medicating difficult feelings with alcohol. That is why we don’t drink when we’re down; there is no “I need a drink” on a bad day. If anything, it is more, “I was going to have a beer, but I’m just not feeling very happy right now. I’d better not.” If you’re having a bad day, you need friends, maybe you need a walk or a distraction or a long hot shower, but not a drink of a depressant. Drinking at our house is one glass at a time, either with a meal or at the end of the day, excepting when our relatives visit for Thanksgiving, when the amount goes up because we’re drinking and eating off and on pretty much all day long. Some arrange to have rides home in case they have one or more than they’d think is 100% safe while we’re sitting around chatting, but that’s it.

 

[EmeraldOak]

IMO, it is in the best interest of children to have the appropriate and moderate use of alcohol modeled for them.

^ This.

My own children are still little so I haven’t had to face these decisions yet, but when I was growing up my parents had a strict zero tolerance policy for alcohol. I moved out of their house when I turned 19 and went hog wild in the drinking department. I used alcohol in all the wrong ways, unfortunately. I wish my parents had made it more normal and part of the human experience.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

I wish my parents had made it more normal and part of the human experience.

 

[starlady88]

**I guess the overall question is: **Do your children ever get alcohol in a social setting, how much do you drink in that kind of setting yourself, and what does that have to do with how the adults in your family or social circle handle social drinking at big holidays (or how that was handled when you were young yourself)?

I wish my parents had made it more normal and part of the human experience.

My parents, when I was going up, were pretty strict about alcohol consumption as well. My parents had a bottle of wine in the fridge, very rarely had a glass of wine, and my dad had a beer or two once a year at his annual customer appreciation dinner. But my parents made it pretty clear that underage drinking was not to be tolerated. I actually thought drinking beer could be a sin! I remember the first time I noticed my dad drinking a beer at the customer appreciation dinner…I was scandalized. I think I was only about 9 or 10.

When I turned 21, my family took me out for lunch and I got a sangria. That was my first alcoholic drink. It took me awhile to get used to drinking alcohol because it had been such a taboo thing in the house. Thankfully I was never tempted to become wildly drunk or drink underage…mostly because I could not bear to disappoint my parents that way. I also had the reputation of “the good kid” that I didn’t want to tarnish in high school.

It was also weird to drink around my friends at first too. One year in college I spent Thanksgiving break with two friends at my friend’s aunt and uncle’s house. We had wine at dinner, although I was the only one out of the three of us who was technically old enough to drink. For them, it was no big deal because they had had wine before at special family gatherings.

Now my brothers and I are all 21 and older (except for one of them), and we have wine or other mixed drinks at Christmas and Easter and other special events like weddings or birthdays. One of my brothers and I often bring some craft beer to share when we happen to be home at the same time. It’s not a big deal to me now, but it was sure weird getting used to it. I think responsible examples of drinking moderate amounts of alcohol are good for kids to see, even if they themselves don’t partake in it.

 

[signit]

I was allowed as a child to drink beer along with Mom and Dad, out of my child-size glass. As a result, I learned to drink beer like an adult, in moderation, like Mom and Dad. In my opinion the ones who were headed for trouble were the ones whose families strictly prohibited it; they were the ones who when they were a little older tried to sneak alcohol behind their parents’ backs.

As for the one or two relatives who were problem drinkers, I was purposely not told about their problem until I was a little older. When one of them showed up at our house drunk I was shielded from the situation as much as possible.

Mom and Dad and the other adults I knew never did “social drinking” for “big holidays.” I was always puzzled seeing the public service announcements reminding people to watch their drinking over the holidays because not one person I knew ever did any increased drinking for holidays.

 

[1ke]

I have to admit: You have so much common sense when it comes to human nature, it is hard to believe you have not been through the crucible of parenthood.

Yeah, it didn’t happen for us.

I’m wagering you’ve been through something, correct?

Oh, heck yeah. Parental divorce when I was 4, a dad who has been married 4 times, a mix of step and half siblings on both sides came later. I was shipped off to live at the grandparents when I was 4 so i never lived with my siblings or parents again. Graduated high school at 17. I also taught high school after college.

I had so much drama in the first 20 years of my life it’s been rather downhill from there. I did some hard living in my teen years-- not too surprising given all the issues of the first 10 years. Some call it an old soul.

Have you lived in a religious community?

Nope.

Have you worked at a parish office or for a bishop?

Nope. Well I guess sorta. I do a lot for our parish but none of it paid.

Just to clarify: This is more of a poll than a question. We’ve raised our two boys, and we tried to do it with appropriate family use that they have been allowed to join with at appropriate levels.

I thought your kids were older, but sometimes I get posters confused.

I think you had a great approach.

 

[EasterJoy]

^ This.

My own children are still little so I haven’t had to face these decisions yet, but when I was growing up my parents had a strict zero tolerance policy for alcohol. I moved out of their house when I turned 19 and went hog wild in the drinking department. I used alcohol in all the wrong ways, unfortunately. I wish my parents had made it more normal and part of the human experience.

This is what I saw in the dorms: that is, that students from “zero tolerance” policy homes tended to go out of their way to not just obtain alcohol, but to drink with the intention of getting drunk. Of course, the other students who got drunk on a regular basis were from homes where the parents and their friends saw inebriation as part of socializing. The third predictor of drunkenness was to have friends who never partied without getting drunk. The people who knew them either joined in the drunkenness or else faded out of the social circle. There are groups where the participants take turns in being the designated driver and there are permanent designated drivers who do it because drinking doesn’t agree with them personally, but there isn’t much room for someone who disapproves of drunkenness and the idiocy it produces among those who actively pursue just that.

 

[venite_adoremus]

My parents drank responsibly. Maybe one drink, maybe once a month. Tasted Dad’s ale and Mom’s beer and didn’t like it. We never had wine. They threw out the case of hard liquor during one of our several moves.

My daughter was taught from early childhood to drink responsibly. We never drink and drive. She was allowed to taste it, but had to avoid the kinds made from grains she couldn’t consume–wheat, barley, etc.–allergies! Nowdays she’s a wine or Rum/Coke drinker.

Alcohol is a powerful depressant. I am personally a believer in avoiding excessive depressant use with children. Patent medicines in the 19th century contained far too many dangerous things. But a good bottle of pure vintage wine is a joy. God gave us wine because He loves us and wants us to be happy. [Your mileage may vary.]

 

[Exiled_Child]

Some people can drink responsibly apparently, but why on Earth take that chance with your children?!?? You may as well hand a six year old a revolver loaded with a single round, tell him to spin the cylinder, put the barrel to his temple and pull the trigger. Then tell him to pass it to his sister and repeat the process. Anybody with even the slightest experience of the real world would understand that introducing a child to alcohol is akin to inviting Satan into his or her life. You’d be opening a door with absolutely no foreknowledge of what’s on the other side. And yes, I do know what I’m talking about, because when I was a child, some friendly foreign college students whose care I was in decided that it would be amusing to have a ten year old drinking buddy. And I took to it like a fish takes to water, because I was an overly sensitive and withdrawn, distant child, and alcohol completely changed that. Which of course I took great delight in. In my experience, no one, not even a parent, knows whether a child is going to be susceptiple to uncontrolled fun with alcohol or not. Seems to me they’d have to be a pretty lifeless kid to not enjoy it profoundly. So it’s like your gambling that your child doesn’t possess a sense a fun or have a curious nature, which is callously insulting on top of everything else. I thought that it was better than a ride at Disneyland, personally, and even at that early age I was able to drink college kids under the table. Which kids find extremely funny, and of course they have no idea what it may to do their lives. So, no offense, but you’d have to be certifiable to raise your children that way. To be frank, severly beating them with coat hangers and starving them might be less harmful to them in the long run.

 

[EasterJoy]

Some people can drink responsibly apparently, but why on Earth take that chance with your children?!?? You may as well hand a six year old a revolver loaded with a single round, tell him to spin the cylinder, put the barrel to his temple and pull the trigger. Then tell him to pass it to his sister and repeat the process. Anybody with even the slightest experience of the real world would understand that introducing a child to alcohol is akin to inviting Satan into his or her life. You’d be opening a door with absolutely no foreknowledge of what’s on the other side. And yes, I do know what I’m talking about, because when I was a child, some friendly foreign college students whose care I was in decided that it would be amusing to have a ten year old drinking buddy. And I took to it like a fish takes to water, because I was an overly sensitive and withdrawn, distant child, and alcohol completely changed that. Which of course I took great delight in. In my experience, no one, not even a parent, knows whether a child is going to be susceptiple to uncontrolled fun with alcohol or not. Seems to me they’d have to be a pretty lifeless kid to not enjoy it profoundly. So it’s like your gambling that your child doesn’t possess a sense a fun or have a curious nature, which is callously insulting on top of everything else. I thought that it was better than a ride at Disneyland, personally, and even at that early age I was able to drink college kids under the table. Which kids find extremely funny, and of course they have no idea what it may to do their lives. So, no offense, but you’d have to be certifiable to raise your children that way. To be frank, severly beating them with coat hangers and starving them might be less harmful to them in the long run.

You are talking about the opposite of what I’m talking about.

What on earth were you doing in the care of those particular college students as a 10 year old? How on earth did your parents not notice that these “friends” got you drunk?

Yes, parents can know that a child with serious untreated emotional problems is going to be extremely susceptible to drug and alcohol abuse. You could live in a dry home in a dry county in a dry country, and that would still be true. Any person unsupported through their emotional problems is very prone to self-medicate their problems with addictive behaviors. That’s pretty much common sense.

I’m very sorry that you were not raised to know that it is never OK to self-medicate your emotional problems with alcohol and that you felt you had no one to turn to instead of turning to the emotional escape of intoxication. That is heartbreaking.