Alcohol and Precious Blood

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Faith1960

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In an OLD thread from 2006 Br. Rich SFO said “There is only the Blood of Christ in the Chalice after Consecration. There is no wine or alcohol. However, the Blood of Christ has the same accidents, look, feel, taste and properties of wine, including alcoholic properties.”

In another post where he was answering someone who said there IS alcohol in the Precious Blood he replied, “Depending on just how much a person would drink, they would have alcohol circulating in their blood.
But not12% if they did they would be killed by it. So, NO there is no alcohol in the Blood of Christ. It does have alcoholic properties consistant with the accidents of wine.”

My question is how can this be?
 
Faith1960 said:
In an OLD thread from 2006 Br. Rich SFO said “There is only the Blood of Christ in the Chalice after Consecration. There is no wine or alcohol. However, the Blood of Christ has the same accidents, look, feel, taste and properties of wine, including alcoholic properties.”

In another post where he was answering someone who said there IS alcohol in the Precious Blood he replied, “Depending on just how much a person would drink, they would have alcohol circulating in their blood.
But not12% if they did they would be killed by it. So, NO there is no alcohol in the Blood of Christ. It does have alcoholic properties consistant with the accidents of wine.”

My question is how can this be?
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substance = what it is
accidents = properties

Transubstantiation (Modern Catholic Dictonary)
The complete change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ’s body and blood by a validly ordained priest during the consecration at Mass, so that only the accidents of bread and wine remain. While the faith behind the term was already believed in apostolic times, the term itself was a later development. With the Eastern Fathers before the sixth century, the favored expression was meta-ousiosis “change of being”; the Latin tradition coined the word transubstantiatio, “change of substance,” which was incorporated into the creed of the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215. The Council of Trent, in defining the “wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and the whole substance of the wine into the blood” of Christ, added “which conversion the Catholic Church calls transubstantiation” (Denzinger 1652). After transubstantiation, the accidents of bread and wine do not inhere in any subject or substance whatever. Yet they are not make-believe; they are sustained in existence by divine power. (Etym. Latin trans-, so as to change + substantia, substance: transubstantiatio, change of substance.)
 
Vico said:
substance = what it is
accidents = properties

Transubstantiation (Modern Catholic Dictonary)
The complete change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ’s body and blood by a validly ordained priest during the consecration at Mass, so that only the accidents of bread and wine remain. While the faith behind the term was already believed in apostolic times, the term itself was a later development. With the Eastern Fathers before the sixth century, the favored expression was meta-ousiosis “change of being”; the Latin tradition coined the word transubstantiatio, “change of substance,” which was incorporated into the creed of the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215. The Council of Trent, in defining the “wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and the whole substance of the wine into the blood” of Christ, added “which conversion the Catholic Church calls transubstantiation” (Denzinger 1652). After transubstantiation, the accidents of bread and wine do not inhere in any subject or substance whatever. Yet they are not make-believe; they are sustained in existence by divine power. (Etym. Latin trans-, so as to change + substantia, substance: transubstantiatio, change of substance.)
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I guess what I’m asking is this: how can there be no alcohol if, like he said, after drinking it, alcohol would be circulating in your system?

And if analyzed, it would come out to have alcohol in it?
 
I just don’t understand how the Precious Blood supposedly has no alcohol when there’s alcohol present. Help!
 
It still has the “accidents,” or properties, of wine, which includes alcohol.

How can this be? How can it seem to be ordinary bread and wine, and actually be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Our Lord, as He said?

The answer is that it is a miracle. We cannot fully understand Christ’s miracles.
 
Faith1960 said:
I guess what I’m asking is this: how can there be no alcohol if, like he said, after drinking it, alcohol would be circulating in your system?

And if analyzed, it would come out to have alcohol in it?
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A chemical analysis is of physical properties and in this case the physical properties include those of alcohol which are sustained in existence by divine power.
 
You wouldn’t run any chemical analysis on the blood of Christ. The process would be sacrilege.
But the alcohol content of the wine would also be the alcohol content remaining in the accidents of the Precious Blood of Christ.

Alcohol content in red wine in Australian wine, runs between 11 and 14%. I am not sure what that Priest meant by if the alcohol content is 12% ’ They would be killed by it’?

Do you have the full text?

Taking a sip of the Precious Blood, or enjoying a glass of good red wine with 12% alcohol content in a bottle, certainly won’t kill you.

The same cannot be said for cheap red wine full of sulphites. ( she jested🍷)’
 
You would be killed by a sip of .12 ratio pure alcohol? I think you should all be dead then if we have taken communion.
.
By that standard mouth wash should be regulated as a poison.
I think there must be a typo error
 
I think the priest meant if your blood was 12% alcohol you would be dead…
 
Faith1960 said:
I just don’t understand how the Precious Blood supposedly has no alcohol when there’s alcohol present. Help!
Click to expand...
I haven’t read the post to which you refer, so I can’t opine on what he was trying to say, but…

we can say this: after the consecration, it is no longer ‘wine’, but rather, the ‘Precious Blood’. Therefore, from a philosophical point of view, it is not ‘wine’. However, from a physical perspective, it has all the physical properties that it had prior to the consecration. Therefore, it will still get you drunk at the rate that the same quantity of wine will get you drunk. That is, it still continues to have the properties of alcohol.
 
Also, the Substance of Christ only exists while the properties of wine exist.

When the form ceases to be wine, and enters into a dilution state to where wine could no longer be physically identified, the Blessed Sacrament is no longer present.

In other words, after you partake of the Holy Communion via the species of wine, shortly after it enters into your stomach, it ceases to be the Blessed Sacrament. It reverts to water, sulfides, vegetable matter and, yes, alcohol.

That is why purficators are cleaned first by soaking, to dilute the form of wine until it no longer can be identified as the form of wine. Or that unconsumable Hosts are placed in water for several days until it can no longer be identified as the form of bread.

The subsequent dilution can then rightly be disposed of in a just and respectful manner.
 
Gorgias said:
I haven’t read the post to which you refer, so I can’t opine on what he was trying to say, but…

we can say this: after the consecration, it is no longer ‘wine’, but rather, the ‘Precious Blood’. Therefore, from a philosophical point of view, it is not ‘wine’. However, from a physical perspective, it has all the physical properties that it had prior to the consecration. Therefore, it will still get you drunk at the rate that the same quantity of wine will get you drunk. That is, it still continues to have the properties of alcohol.
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Ok, I think I’m getting it, now. Key words: “I think”. 🙂
 
So then does the alcohol remain in the cup after consecration or not?
 
Faith1960 said:
I think that’s what he meant, too.
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Faith can you link us with the original text where the Priest said that please ?

Brendan, the Precious Blood, by the physical properties of its accidents, will be a certain % alcohol, and this will be reflected on the tongue, and In the mouth of the Communicant.

If that communicant were to be immediately breathalysed, or underwent another test to determine alcohol use, the alcohol accidents remaining in the Precious Blood, would register.

In my country , p platers ( 18yos) who are new drivers , must maintain a zero alcohol reading. So no Precious Blood if they are driving.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
Faith can you link us with the original text where the Priest said that please ?

Brendan, the Precious Blood, by the physical properties of its accidents, will be a certain % alcohol, and this will be reflected on the tongue, and In the mouth of the Communicant.

If that communicant were to be immediately breathalysed, or underwent another test to determine alcohol use, the alcohol accidents remaining in the Precious Blood, would register.

In my country , p platers ( 18yos) who are new drivers , must maintain a zero alcohol reading. So no Precious Blood if they are driving.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I can’t find it now. It was a thread I stumbled on when looking at old threads. It was from 2006. It was by Br. Rich SFO, not a priest, and he didn’t start the thread, somebody else did.
 
Faith1960 said:
So then does the alcohol remain in the cup after consecration or not?
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The accidents of wine REMAIN after the consecration. That includes all of what we perceive to be the physical properties of wine including alcoholic content.

The substance is changed into the blood of Christ. The accidents of wine remain.
There is no chemical test which could reveal the change, because chemical tests deal with the accidents of things, not the substance.
 
JimG said:
The accidents of wine REMAIN after the consecration. That includes all of what we perceive to be the physical properties of wine including alcoholic content.

The substance is changed into the blood of Christ. The accidents of wine remain.
There is no chemical test which could reveal the change, because chemical tests deal with the accidents of things, not the substance.
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Thanks! :). I’ve been corresponding with one of my priests by email and he basically said the same thing.

Do you have a priest who answers email promptly? We have three priests and one does. Another one sometimes does, but usually catches me after Mass and answers my questions then. The third priest, Msgr., never answers email from anyone I know.
 
I went looking

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=120352&highlight=12%25+alcohol

See posts #71 and #77

Yes Br. Rich SFO says 12% alcohol content remains in the accidents , in the Precious Blood.
Which is a true and correct statement.

And this is a seperate issue and also a true statement.
And yes he was referring to the alcoholic blood content of a person Killing them if it were 12% . Imagine how much alcohol one would have to consume to get that high a blood alcohol content!
 
Roseeurekacross said:
I went looking

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=120352&highlight=12%25+alcohol

See posts #71 and #77

Yes Br. Rich SFO says 12% alcohol content remains in the accidents , in the Precious Blood.
Which is a true and correct statement.

And this is a seperate issue and also a true statement.
And yes he was referring to the alcoholic blood content of a person Killing them if it were 12% . Imagine how much alcohol one would have to consume to get that high a blood alcohol content!
Click to expand...
Glad you found it. I was confused by the word accidents but I think I got it now.
 
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