Alcohol and Sins

[Neithan]

If someone is drunk and their judgment is sufficiently impaired, then isn’t it impossible for them to commit a mortal sin, since ‘full knowledge’ or ‘sufficient reflection’ on the gravity of their actions is not present? Is this true, or can the fact that he/she is drunk in the first place be used as a ‘deliberate ignorance’ argument?
Obviously, if someone is *intentionally *intoxicated, then they’ve already committed a mortal sin; but what if someone is unintentionally intoxicated? If they sin gravely without being able to fully reflect, is it mortal? If not… then that means every unintentionally drunk driver, drunk murderer, drunk rapist etc. etc. whose judgement was sufficiently impaired due to the effect of alcohol is *not guilty *of a mortal sin!! Can this really be the case?

 

[thistle]

Neithan:

If someone is drunk and their judgment is sufficiently impaired, then isn’t it impossible for them to commit a mortal sin, since ‘full knowledge’ or ‘sufficient reflection’ on the gravity of their actions is not present? Is this true, or can the fact that he/she is drunk in the first place be used as a ‘deliberate ignorance’ argument?
Obviously, if someone is *intentionally *intoxicated, then they’ve already committed a mortal sin; but what if someone is unintentionally intoxicated? If they sin gravely without being able to fully reflect, is it mortal? If not… then that means every unintentionally drunk driver, drunk murderer, drunk rapist etc. etc. whose judgement was sufficiently impaired due to the effect of alcohol is *not guilty *of a mortal sin!! Can this really be the case?

How can you get unintentionally drunk??

 

[Aaron_I]

thistle:

How can you get unintentionally drunk??

Two possibilities I can think of:

1. You drink but try to cut it off before becoming drunk. This is totally invalid. After all, you still chose to drink knowing possible consequences.
2. You are at a party and your drink is drugged without your knowing about it. I would still say its your fault. This assumes the nature of the party to be that of a college frat party. If you associate with people who are screwing around, you should be aware of the dangers.

If you put yourself in an occassion of sin, you are culpable for your actions. It would be possible to be caught off guard in a situation in which getting drugged would not be likely. In such a case you would probably be free of blame.

 

[Neithan]

thistle:

How can you get unintentionally drunk??

There’s a few ways. If someone doesn’t know their limit. Especially in big groups, if someone is drinking in ‘rounds’, or drinks while underestimating the alcohol content. Or if someone doesn’t properly gauge their consumption. With some hard liquors, such as Tequila, the effects of the alcohol are not immediate; they take a little longer than most drinks to hit you. Stuff like that. It happens. It’s reckless, but can recklessness be cause for mortal sin? It isn’t deliberate.

 

[mercygate]

Neithan:

There’s a few ways. If someone doesn’t know their limit. Especially in big groups, if someone is drinking in ‘rounds’, or drinks while underestimating the alcohol content. Or if someone doesn’t properly gauge their consumption. With some hard liquors, such as Tequila, the effects of the alcohol are not immediate; they take a little longer than most drinks to hit you. Stuff like that. It happens. It’s reckless, but can recklessness be cause for mortal sin? It isn’t deliberate.

Why do you ask?

 

[Neithan]

mercygate:

Why do you ask?

Why do I ask if unintentional intoxication would mitigate culpability? Because that would make someone capable of committing the most heinous crimes without the guilt of mortal sin.

 

[Ham1]

The answer is theoretically yes, if the person became drunk unintentionally. If the drunkeness was intentional, then the person is responsible for the acts committed well drunk in addition to the drunkeness itself.

As far as heinous crimes being committed without mortal sin, it happens all the time…usually out of ignorance.

 

[iserve]

I am working in a high security level prison and I can tell you that every day I talk to men who are serving long sentances for committing crimes while intoxicated. Civil law holds them accountable for both the intoxication and its’ outcome. There is a direct link from the irresponsibility of being out of control to most crimes, including the extrordinary connection between substance abuse and crime (68% by the stats I just saw today). This doesn’t even include statistics that include family members, which I am quite sure would bump this number up even further. As part of their treatment in the program I work in, they are required to take classes in substance abuse, and how to live in sobriety once they are released. The mentality of harmless drunkeness is long over in our society, and people no longer get a pass for behavior that harms others just because they were drunk or high. I guess that explains the often heard expression “clean and sober”- they are mutually inclusive.

 

[deb1]

iserve:

I am working in a high security level prison and I can tell you that every day I talk to men who are serving long sentances for committing crimes while intoxicated. Civil law holds them accountable for both the intoxication and its’ outcome. There is a direct link from the irresponsibility of being out of control to most crimes, including the extrordinary connection between substance abuse and crime (68% by the stats I just saw today). This doesn’t even include statistics that include family members, which I am quite sure would bump this number up even further. As part of their treatment in the program I work in, they are required to take classes in substance abuse, and how to live in sobriety once they are released. The mentality of harmless drunkeness is long over in our society, and people no longer get a pass for behavior that harms others just because they were drunk or high. I guess that explains the often heard expression “clean and sober”- they are mutually inclusive.

I am guessing that most people who get drunk and commit crimes have been drunk before and are well aware of the effects of alcohol on them. Thus they would be culpable of sin.

An example that comes to my mind is this. When I was a young woman, I was often chosen as the designated driver for my friends. Many of my girl friends knew that they would become less restricted sexually under the influence of alcohol. Yet, every weekend these girls would get drunk and would only shrug their shoulders after casual sex with a stranger. Their excuse was “Hey, it isn’t my fault. I was drunk.” Because these women knew the effect of alcohol before they drank they would, I am guessing, be responsible for their own sins.

 

[deb1]

Neithan:

There’s a few ways. If someone doesn’t know their limit. Especially in big groups, if someone is drinking in ‘rounds’, or drinks while underestimating the alcohol content. Or if someone doesn’t properly gauge their consumption. With some hard liquors, such as Tequila, the effects of the alcohol are not immediate; they take a little longer than most drinks to hit you. Stuff like that. It happens. It’s reckless, but can recklessness be cause for mortal sin? It isn’t deliberate.

Perhaps if someone is taking medications and they don’t realize its effect on alcohol consumption?

 

[Neithan]

iserve:

The mentality of harmless drunkeness is long over in our society, and people no longer get a pass for behavior that harms others just because they were drunk or high

It’s good that they are held accountable in civil law, but it seems that according to the Church, their guilt would indeed be lessened by intoxication, if it wasn’t deliberate.

deb1:

Perhaps if someone is taking medications and they don’t realize its effect on alcohol consumption?

That’s a real possibility. Even aspirin can heighten the effect of alcohol considerably.

Because these women knew the effect of alcohol before they drank they would, I am guessing, be responsible for their own sins.

Yeah sounds like they were getting deliberately drunk, so they would’ve already been guilty of mortal sin.

 

[mdaoust]

If you are unintentionally drunk then your will is impaired and therefore your culpability is diminished (not gone, but less).

How can one get unintentionally drunk? Younger people who are not familiar with alchohol can fall into this trap easily as they do not know how their body will react to alcohol. Even adults, though, who may have a drink without eating food for a while are prone to accidentally having too much to drink.