Alcohol and the Catholic Church

[ABostonCatholic]

For years Baptists and other have been telling us that alcohol is evil. They’ve denied that Jesus drank wine, and said it was “unfermented grape juice.” Now, many have come to realize that that is baloney, and have admitted that alcohol is not intrinsically evil. However, they maintain that it is wrong in this day and age to drink alcohol.

Here, I think they have a point.

I hate alcohol almost as much as I hate pornography, because of the evil that I see it inflict. And I wonder if in the 21st century it is ever moral for us (at least Americans and Europeans) to ever drink alcohol. Here’s why:

• It is not as necessary to drink it as it was in Jesus’ time, we have plenty of other drinks available
• The criteria for “drunkenness”-which is mortally sinful-was visible drunkenness, not BAC (obviously)
• But Jesus’ time did not have cars, guns, and latex condoms which would lead to drunk driving, shootings, and promiscuity
• Even a small amount of alcohol increases one’s propensity to commit the above actions
• Even a small amount of alcohol can lead to driving fatalities, or birth defects in pregnant women
• The culture that is associated with alcohol is usually one of drunkeness and promiscuity, other mortal sins
• Otherwise faithful Catholics commit these sins due to alcohol
• Alcohol increases likelihood of domestic violence
• 18.7 million Americans (7.7% of the population) are dependent on or abuse alcohol
• AA has 2 million members
• Consuming alcohol at casual social situations like sporting events has led to an increase in violence
• The image that many beer companies promote is one that ignores the negative consequences and often uses women as sex-objects
• Children are often able to drink at a young age, and as a consequent, leads them into other dangerous behaviors, esp. promiscuity
• The abundance of the availability of alcohol today versus Jesus’ time has greatly magnified the above concerns

Given the above points, is there any real reason why Catholics should condone the consumption of alcohol?

 

[Proletarian]

For years Baptists and other have been telling us that alcohol is evil. They’ve denied that Jesus drank wine, and said it was “unfermented grape juice.” Now, many have come to realize that that is baloney, and have admitted that alcohol is not intrinsically evil. However, they maintain that it is wrong in this day and age to drink alcohol.

Here, I think they have a point.

I hate alcohol almost as much as I hate pornography, because of the evil that I see it inflict. And I wonder if in the 21st century it is ever moral for us (at least Americans and Europeans) to ever drink alcohol. Here’s why:

• It is not as necessary to drink it as it was in Jesus’ time, we have plenty of other drinks available
• The criteria for “drunkenness”-which is mortally sinful-was visible drunkenness, not BAC (obviously)
• But Jesus’ time did not have cars, guns, and latex condoms which would lead to drunk driving, shootings, and promiscuity
• Even a small amount of alcohol increases one’s propensity to commit the above actions
• Even a small amount of alcohol can lead to driving fatalities, or birth defects in pregnant women
• The culture that is associated with alcohol is usually one of drunkeness and promiscuity, other mortal sins
• Otherwise faithful Catholics commit these sins due to alcohol
• Alcohol increases likelihood of domestic violence
• 18.7 million Americans (7.7% of the population) are dependent on or abuse alcohol
• AA has 2 million members
• Consuming alcohol at casual social situations like sporting events has led to an increase in violence
• The image that many beer companies promote is one that ignores the negative consequences and often uses women as sex-objects
• Children are often able to drink at a young age, and as a consequent, leads them into other dangerous behaviors, esp. promiscuity
• The abundance of the availability of alcohol today versus Jesus’ time has greatly magnified the above concerns

Given the above points, is there any real reason why Catholics should condone the consumption of alcohol?

I take it you’re an American, so I’m going to assume you love firearms, or at least support you’re right to own one. Should all firearms be banned because they increase homicide, assault and suicide rates?

 

[cecilia97]

Howdy to a fellow Ag!

Given the points you post, the picture on alcohol doesn’t look good. But I question a lot of your points. A small amount of alcohol (like a beer or two) doesn’t increase the possibility of me driving drunk, or having sex, or becoming violent. Does it for you? Then don’t drink. It’s all about personal responsibility and knowing your limits, reactions, what your body can handle, and how strong your convictions are. We are not animals. Applying alcohol doesn’t automatically take away our reason.

I’d also question your comparison of alcohol and porn. Porn is the incorrect application of sexuality. Drunkeness is the incorrect application of alcohol. Alcohol and sex are both good things, given to us by God. Porn and drunkeness are our human misuse of those good things.

 

[blessedtoo]

Given the above points, is there any real reason why Catholics should condone the consumption of alcohol?

Wine has a wonderfully medicinal effect on digestion. A glass of red wine with meals is considered a health benefit by many medical professionals.

It’s delicious (wine).

 

[Andruschak]

Given the above points, is there any real reason why Catholics should condone the consumption of alcohol?

Go ahead and try. You will be mostly ignored, even by Catholics. Prohibition was a massive failure. The War On Drugs has been a massive failure. Like it or not, alcohol is entrenched in our society.

(Just my opinion, from a recovered alcoholic 23 years sober)

 

[ABostonCatholic]

I take it you’re an American, so I’m going to assume you love firearms, or at least support you’re right to own one. Should all firearms be banned because they increase homicide, assault and suicide rates?

OR you could have said that I’m from Boston and therefore I hate firearms and I think we should all burn them all, which yes, would be a better solution. The second amendment is irrelevant and misinterpreted by the NRA and it’s followers. There are millions of other americans who agree. But that’s beside the point…

 

[FelixBlue]

I take it you’re an American, so I’m going to assume you love firearms, or at least support you’re right to own one. Should all firearms be banned because they increase homicide, assault and suicide rates?

I think you exagerate the above post. It didn’t suggest “banning” alcohol (as in making it legal); it merely suggested taking a moral stance.

But I, like you, am ambivalent (about the moral stance). I will say, I know many people who have alcohol problems and it is at the root of other problems (cf Ephesians 5:17).

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Go ahead and try. You will be mostly ignored, even by Catholics. Prohibition was a massive failure. The War On Drugs has been a massive failure. Like it or not, alcohol is entrenched in our society.

(Just my opinion, from a recovered alcoholic 23 years sober)

I’m not speaking of reenacting the 18th amendment. I’m talking about Catholics being a moral voice on this issue, as we’re supposed to be on abortion and contraception.

 

[cecilia97]

I’m not speaking of reenacting the 18th amendment. I’m talking about Catholics being a moral voice on this issue, as we’re supposed to be on abortion and contraception.

The Church already has a voice about this…it tells us that drunkeness is a mortal sin.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Howdy to a fellow Ag!

Given the points you post, the picture on alcohol doesn’t look good. But I question a lot of your points. A small amount of alcohol (like a beer or two) doesn’t increase the possibility of me driving drunk, or having sex, or becoming violent. Does it for you? Then don’t drink. It’s all about personal responsibility and knowing your limits, reactions, what your body can handle, and how strong your convictions are. We are not animals. Applying alcohol doesn’t automatically take away our reason.

I’d also question your comparison of alcohol and porn. Porn is the incorrect application of sexuality. Drunkeness is the incorrect application of alcohol. Alcohol and sex are both good things, given to us by God. Porn and drunkeness are our human misuse of those good things.

Yes, responsibility is my whole point-but personal as well as collective. But for too long Catholics have ignored the negative problems of alcohol, and that’s why you’ll see otherwise faithful catholics getting wasted at the bars [name deleted] from thursday to saturday, but at church [name deleted] every single day of the week for mass and adoration.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

The Church already has a voice about this…it tells us that drunkeness is a mortal sin.

Like too many important moral issues, that voice is like a cricket at a rock concert.

 

[cecilia97]

Yes, responsibility is my whole point-but personal as well as collective. But for too long Catholics have ignored the negative problems of alcohol, and that’s why you’ll see otherwise faithful catholics getting wasted at northgate from thursday to saturday, but at St. MAry’s every single day of the week for mass and adoration.

That problem is not limited to alcohol…there are “otherwise faithful catholics” who break all 10 of the commandments.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

That problem is not limited to alcohol…there are “otherwise faithful catholics” who break all 10 of the commandments.

I realize that, but I think alcohol is a serious problem that is too often ignored.

Last fall, there were some anti-hate flyers posted around the BC campus. They told stories of discrimination, racism, and sexism that people experienced on campus. Every single flyer had something like, “Some drunk guys came up to me…” or “I tried to pass it off as a drunken rambling but…” yet NO ONE seemed to realize that alcohol might be the common factor of the incidents of “hate” on campus.

Instead, the distributers of the flyers said things such as that students at BC “f—ing hate black people”

 

[jrnami]

The Catholic Church is too soft on alcohol. Most hardcore Catholics I know are also heavy drinkers.

 

[cecilia97]

I realize that, but I think alcohol is a serious problem that is too often ignored.

Last fall, there were some anti-hate flyers posted around the BC campus. They told stories of discrimination, racism, and sexism that people experienced on campus. Every single flyer had something like, “Some drunk guys came up to me…” or “I tried to pass it off as a drunken rambling but…” yet NO ONE seemed to realize that alcohol might be the common factor of the incidents of “hate” on campus.

Instead, the distributers of the flyers said things such as that students at BC “f—ing hate black people”

That’s too bad, but alcohol didn’t make those guys racist. Drinking *too much *made them stupid enough to reveal the inner racist that they hide better at other times.

 

[cecilia97]

The Catholic Church is too soft of alcohol. Most hardcore Catholics I know are also heavy drinkers.

That’s anecdotal. I’ve known my share of heavy drinking Baptists but that doesn’t mean Baptist churches are too soft on alcohol!

 

[ABostonCatholic]

That’s too bad, but alcohol didn’t make those guys racist. Drinking *too much *made them stupid enough to reveal the inner racist that they hide better at other times.

In vino veritas?

I think that maxim is too simple and usually not true.

One night I was walking home (it was around 12:30 am) and I was wearing my back pack because I had class until 9:15 and work from 10-12. Someone drove by, and a drunk man yelled out of the car “Nice back pack! If I took it up the a-- I would wear a back pack like that too!”

While I was offended by that comment (and I’m not gay) I don’ t think that the man’s state reveals that he holds deep anti-gay or anti-backpack tendencies . Rather, if you consider that we often make hateful comments when we’re sobert that we really don’t believe, how are we expected to do better when we’re drunk?

(My typing is so poor tonight, you probably think I’m an angry drunk ranting about my own drunkenness )

 

[Proletarian]

OR you could have said that I’m from Boston and therefore I hate firearms and I think we should all burn them all, which yes, would be a better solution. The second amendment is irrelevant and misinterpreted by the NRA and it’s followers. There are millions of other americans who agree. But that’s beside the point…

Wow, I wasn’t expecting that! You’ve just blown my argument out of the water The point I was trying to make is that self control is paramount As one of the other posters pointed out, a few social drinks is unlikely to lead to immorality. If one believes that it may, that person should definitely avoid alcohol Having said that I agree with you with respect to alcohol promoting promiscuity. Being a young man who has converted from atheism only recently I don’t drink when out with my old mates; too many good look’n girls and too many bad habits.

BTW, God bless you for your stance on firearms

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Wow, I wasn’t expecting that! You’ve just blown my argument out of the water The point I was trying to make is that self control is paramount As one of the other posters pointed out, a few social drinks is unlikely to lead to immorality. If one believes that it may, that person should definitely avoid .alcohol Having said that I agree with you with respect to alcohol promoting promiscuity. Being a young man who has converted from atheism only recently I don’t drink when out with my old mates; too many good look’n girls and too many bad habits.

BTW, God bless for your stance on firearms

Yes, and as I said, alcohol is not intrinsically evil. But I think that when we allow it a little - when it’s not necessary to - bad things happen. Considering, too, the loss of the notion of sin (when we get down to it, nothing is considered immoral “who am I to judge?”) that complicates the problem even more.

oh, and I miss the days of war when you could see the whites of the eyeballs and smell the breath of the man you’re about to kill

 

[cecilia97]

In vino veritas?

I think that maxim is too simple and usually not true.

One night I was walking home (it was around 12:30 am) and I was wearing my back pack because I had class until 9:15 and work from 10-12. Someone drove by, and a drunk man yelled out of the car “Nice back pack! If I took it up the a-- I would wear a back pack like that too!”

While I was offended by that comment (and I’m not gay) I don’ t think that the man’s state reveals that he holds deep anti-gay or anti-backpack tendencies . Rather, if you consider that we often make hateful comments when we’re sobert that we really don’t believe, how are we expected to do better when we’re drunk?

(My typing is so poor tonight, you probably think I’m an angry drunk ranting about my own drunkenness )

I’m tempted to say that the guy who yelled at you is probably a jack*ss 24/7 without needing any alcohol. And I tend to actually be less hateful when I’m drunk, which I do try to avoid and is not very often. So it’s back to personal responsibility. Don’t blame the drink, blame the drinker who went too far. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this…like we do on firearms.