Alcohol and the Catholic Church

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There are tons of heavy drinkers in my church, especially the more devout. its strange but the two go hand in hand, especially among men.
 
cecilia97 said:
I’m tempted to say that the guy who yelled at you is probably a jack*ss 24/7 without needing any alcohol. 😉 And I tend to actually be less hateful when I’m drunk, which I do try to avoid and is not very often. So it’s back to personal responsibility. Don’t blame the drink, blame the drinker who went too far. 🙂
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Agreed. I find that alcohol only accentuates the personality or mood of the drinker. If you’re a person who is naturally aggressive or are forever having to hold your tongue you definitely shouldn’t be drinking.
 
Andruschak said:
Go ahead and try. You will be mostly ignored, even by Catholics. Prohibition was a massive failure. The War On Drugs has been a massive failure. Like it or not, alcohol is entrenched in our society.

(Just my opinion, from a recovered alcoholic 23 years sober)
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So is contraception.

Let’s not confuse this issue with a false dichotomy.

The OP is not asking if we should try Prohibition again, the OP is asking if, as Catholics we can condone the use of beverage alcohol.

I am not weighing in on the OP’s question itself under the infuence of my second (and final) micro brew before bed in the comfort of my own home… I am just pointing out that calling for something to be made illegal, versus calling for us to consider our response to a legal thing as Catholics, are NOT the same thing.
 
Given the above points, is there any real reason why Catholics should condone the consumption of alcohol?
  • A glass of red wine is good for the heart.
  • Widmer Hefeweizen tastes very good.
(as a person who home brews, my opinion might be skewed)

There was murder before alcohol in the bible.
There was promiscuity without the affects of alcohol in the bible.
There are people addicted to the internet, to sex, and to many other things.
If someone is adversely affected by alcohol they should not drink, and if someone you know is an alcoholic, you should not drink around them.
92.3% of Americans are not dependent on or don’t abuse alcohol.
If anything adversely affects you in any way, you should avoid it.
 
American Catholics are a strange bunch, informed by the Puritanism around them, more so than by their own Catholic Faith.

The “temperance movement” was strong only in the Irish Catholic community, a group that opposed the German Catholic (and Lutheran, I might add) biergaerten from being open on Sunday after Mass.

Why do American Catholics seem to drink “too much”? Because they are influenced by their secularized Protestant counterparts - the old days of ethnic Catholicism is behind us, there are hardly any more French, German, Italian, or Polish Catholics, they have all been swallowed up by the “American Catholic” movement, a movement promoted by the Irish-American Church and hierarchy for 100+ years.
 
Baptists are apparently ignorant that unfermented grape juice was impossible to keep until Welch figured out how to pasteurize it in 1896 (going from memory here; I think that’s correct). Welch was a Methodist looking to provide a nonalcoholic alternative to wine in his church services.

Jesus didn’t turn water into grape juice at Cana, nor did he offer grape juice to the disciples. It used to infuriate me to know end when my Pentecostal pastor used to quote Scripture incorrectly by replacing “wine” with “juice”. Jesus turned water into wine.

Would Jesus Christ do anything which was not good for us?

I think the churches which forbid alcohol, however good their intentions are, lose the right to claim they are Biblical.

How can one celebrate as Christ told us to do without wine?
 
Good alcholic beverages taken for pleasure are divine because they provide an opportunity to cultivate the virtue of temperance:
2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it’s sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
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The neo-pagan cult of the body (that restricts living to necessity only) is the bigger danger for many.
 
Perhaps we should stop driving cars, too. They’re just too dangerous and only cause problems…:rolleyes:

In Pax Christi
Andrew
 
Harpazo said:
Perhaps we should stop driving cars, too. They’re just too dangerous and only cause problems…:rolleyes:

In Pax Christi
Andrew
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Not to mention the fact that I can’t find any Scriptural reference to them…
 
With drunkenness being a “mortal sin” - it is wrong for the CC to have beer tents at their functions. Some people have a sin nature such that they fall prey to this temptation. To then throw that in their face when “mortal sin” is at stake is wrong. Let’s bring in a prostitution tent too…!!!
 
OneForTruth said:
With drunkenness being a “mortal sin” - it is wrong for the CC to have beer tents at their functions. Some people have a sin nature such that they fall prey to this temptation. To then throw that in their face when “mortal sin” is at stake is wrong. Let’s bring in a prostitution tent too…!!!
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No because prostitution is objectively wrong, and drinking alcohol is not. Since no one is deliberately encouraging drunkeness at these functions, they are morally acceptable.
 
Scottgun said:
No because prostitution is objectively wrong, and drinking alcohol is not. Since no one is deliberately encouraging drunkeness at these functions, they are morally acceptable.
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If you are causing a brother to stumble - IT IS MORALLY WRONG. Okay - the prostitution tent was a little over the top…but the beer tent is WRONG.
 
OneForTruth said:
If you are causing a brother to stumble - IT IS MORALLY WRONG. Okay - the prostitution tent was a little over the top…but the beer tent is WRONG.
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No it isn’t because there is no deliberate tempting to sin
 
Scottgun said:
No it isn’t because there is no deliberate tempting to sin.
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It may not be 100% deliberate…but neglectful. A person leaving their children in a car in 90 degree weather did not intentionally kill their children - but they were neglectful. It is still WRONG.
 
OneForTruth said:
It may not be 100% deliberate…but neglectful. A person leaving their children in a car in 90 degree weather did not intentionally kill their children - but they were neglectful. It is still WRONG.
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No its not because by that logic no one would be allowed to even eat in case gluttons got tempted to overeat. By beating up on alcohol because it strictly isn’t necessary, you are subscribing to the utilitarian heresy.
 
ABostonCatholic said:
For years Baptists and other have been telling us that alcohol is evil. They’ve denied that Jesus drank wine, and said it was “unfermented grape juice.” Now, many have come to realize that that is baloney, and have admitted that alcohol is not intrinsically evil. However, they maintain that it is wrong in this day and age to drink alcohol.

Here, I think they have a point.

I hate alcohol almost as much as I hate pornography, because of the evil that I see it inflict. And I wonder if in the 21st century it is ever moral for us (at least Americans and Europeans) to ever drink alcohol. Here’s why:
  • It is not as necessary to drink it as it was in Jesus’ time, we have plenty of other drinks available
  • The criteria for “drunkenness”-which is mortally sinful-was visible drunkenness, not BAC (obviously)
  • But Jesus’ time did not have cars, guns, and latex condoms which would lead to drunk driving, shootings, and promiscuity
  • Even a small amount of alcohol increases one’s propensity to commit the above actions
  • Even a small amount of alcohol can lead to driving fatalities, or birth defects in pregnant women
  • The culture that is associated with alcohol is usually one of drunkeness and promiscuity, other mortal sins
    Given the above points, is there any real reason why Catholics should condone the consumption of alcohol?
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Here is your error. These statistics are for America. France, Italy and other European where people learn to drink responsibly from an early, do not seem to have these alcohol related behaviours.

Perhaps it is the Culture in the U.S., rather than alcohol, that is the source of these problems.
 
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