Alcohol at church functions - ok or not?

[Cat]

why must people push their beliefs on other. Drinking at functions at our parish has never been a problem. Most likely the pastor of this parish has a drinking problem so then nobody must enjoy an adult beverage. It is my understanding that some protestants do not allow drinking because the Man that started there church had drinking problems. I think the above pastor is not courageous or wise simply for giving into people like you and outlawing something Jesus himself had no problem with. So God himself allowed people at a wedding to have more drinks and have a merry time but it is a pastors job to deny others the same thing.

The pastor of a parish is the FATHER of all the souls in that parish. He is responsible for their spiritual health. He has the responsibility to try to help them get to heaven.

A FATHER has the right of a father to do what is best for his children.

If the pastor, the Father, chooses to eliminate alcohol from parish functions, that is his right and his privilege.

Perhaps he knows of a parish member who struggles with alcohol addiction or alcoholism, and Father has decided to try to help this parishioner by making it easier for him/her to attend church social events. Of course Father isn’t going to name names or describe specific circumstances to the entire congregation.

Would you honestly say, “To heck with this one weak parishioner! Why should I give up my liquor just for one person?!”

My question is, “Why wouldn’t a Christian give up their liquor for the sake of one person?”

We need to respect Father’s decision and trust that he truly knows what is best for his children.

 

[nickybr38]

Would you honestly say, “To heck with this one weak parishioner! Why should I give up my liquor just for one person?!”

My question is, “Why wouldn’t a Christian give up their liquor for the sake of one person?”

We need to respect Father’s decision and trust that he truly knows what is best for his children.

And your response is completely in line with what St. Paul says in Scripture.

 

[Cat]

why must people push their beliefs on other. Drinking at functions at our parish has never been a problem. Most likely the pastor of this parish has a drinking problem so then nobody must enjoy an adult beverage. It is my understanding that some protestants do not allow drinking because the Man that started there church had drinking problems. I think the above pastor is not courageous or wise simply for giving into people like you and outlawing something Jesus himself had no problem with. So God himself allowed people at a wedding to have more drinks and have a merry time but it is a pastors job to deny others the same thing.

This is not why Protestant churches ask their members to abstain. I hope you are not making statements like this in real life (outside of this forum), because if you do, you will sound ridiculous and make Catholics look ignorant.

There are historical reasons and denominational traditions behind the total abstainence policies of many Protestant churches. These policies have nothing to do with any one pastor’s personal alcohol problems.

I was Protestant (evangelical) for 47 years before converting to Catholicism. We didn’t need alcohol to have a good time. I still don’t.

You say that there have never been any problems associated with drinking at your parish functions. How do know this? Do you know every parishioner? I’m guessing that over the years, there HAVE been problems. Alcoholism does not go away just because the alcohol is served at a church event. Those who have problems do not always conquer those problems just because the alcohol is at a church event. Statistically it’s very likely that over the decades, there have been problems that you never heard about. Just because YOU have never had problems doesn’t mean that others don’t.

 

[Bluegoat]

And your response is completely in line with what St. Paul says in Scripture.

That doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be better to teach people correctly. The woman in the OP seems to have been distressed because of bad teaching, not because she was struggling. The alcoholic man may have been struggling (though generally alcoholics do learn how to function when others are drinking socially) but would he have struggled the same way if he had been taught correctly?

 

[nickybr38]

That doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be better to teach people correctly. The woman in the OP seems to have been distressed because of bad teaching, not because she was struggling. The alcoholic man may have been struggling (though generally alcoholics do learn how to function when others are drinking socially) but would he have struggled the same way if he had been taught correctly?

You’re right. My friend has had lots of bad teaching and she is really struggling to understand. The man who was with her ended up drinking at this event (after the first night) but that’s on him not on the parishioners who partook.

He hasn’t been taught a thing. He’s just started attending church and is not a Christian. If he had known alcohol was being served he wouldn’t have gone. Same with my friend. Problem solved. No scandal. No hurt feelings.

 

[karow]

That doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be better to teach people correctly. The woman in the OP seems to have been distressed because of bad teaching, not because she was struggling. The alcoholic man may have been struggling (though generally alcoholics do learn how to function when others are drinking socially) but would he have struggled the same way if he had been taught correctly?

Exactly. The alcoholics I’ve known who’ve stayed dry for years having coping strategies for being around others who are drinking socially. The alcoholics who expect everyone to abstain simply because they themselves can’t drink oftentimes don’t stay off the bottle for long. Or they go off and get back on the bottle for years and years. It’s a miserable existance.

 

[dprewett]

In Scripture St. Paul says that those who partake of food and drink should not look down on those who do not. He also says we should not cause our brother to stumble because of what we eat.

Just a thought.

Not my point. Not looking down on anyone. If a function is going to have alcohol then that should be made public knwledge prior to the event but in seems that someone will always not be able to handle or have a problem with any situation. I have a eating disoreder so no fatty foods should be served at an event. I do not like to hear loud noises so no music should be played. I do not like drinking so nobogy should. I do not like smoke so nobody should grill food. I do not like people or any of there habits so a room at every event should be set up so i can have my own space. I help with lots of event at our parish should give you other things i have been told should be stopped by one or another person. I have personal friends that have given up Drinking and I always make them aware of the fact that there will be drinking at a certain function before taking them. Just saying maby people should look at themselves first and ask what bothers others about myself.

 

[Bluegoat]

You’re right. My friend has had lots of bad teaching and she is really struggling to understand. The man who was with her ended up drinking at this event (after the first night) but that’s on him not on the parishioners who partook.

He hasn’t been taught a thing. He’s just started attending church and is not a Christian. If he had known alcohol was being served he wouldn’t have gone. Same with my friend. Problem solved. No scandal. No hurt feelings.

I think there are a few things here - one is that people tend to take it for granted at times tht people may know what is going on at events, forgetting that new people may have no idea what to expect.

But also, if the pastor of the congregation is teaching wrongly about alcohol, then it really becomes impossible for him to lead the congregation wisely. If they hid this from him, or failed to mention it, then how could he mention it to someone he knew might find it difficult? Or advise that this might not be the best event for alcohol without people dismissing him as a silly teetotaler?

Even on something like this, a pastor making his own fads into rules has a very negative effect on the whole congregation and mission of the church.

 

[dprewett]

Exactly. The alcoholics I’ve known who’ve stayed dry for years having coping strategies for being around others who are drinking socially. The alcoholics who expect everyone to abstain simply because they themselves can’t drink oftentimes don’t stay off the bottle for long. Or they go off and get back on the bottle for years and years. It’s a miserable existance.

This is a great point my father has been dry for over a year and does not always withdrawl himself just because alcohal is around. He may leave early or go read a book but does not blame others for letting drinking rule his own life for years.

 

[Cat]

That doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be better to teach people correctly. The woman in the OP seems to have been distressed because of bad teaching, not because she was struggling. The alcoholic man may have been struggling (though generally alcoholics do learn how to function when others are drinking socially) but would he have struggled the same way if he had been taught correctly?

Teaching is a good thing when the person is healthy. But sometimes, especially when one is in the throes of addiction, teaching doesn’t make any difference.

Think about how many tremendously fat people that you know. I daresay that most of these people know all about the risks of obesity . Many of them probably know more about good nutrition than most thin people, and many of them have gym memberships and have been through an orientation with a fitness trainer. Many of them have had heart attacks, or have diabetes, or hypertension, and they’ve been through many educational programs at their doctor’s office or hospital.

But the teaching is not what makes the obese person push the plate away or turn down a second piece of chocolate cake. **If a fat person is at a point where they are struggling with a powerful addiction, they will push the TEACHING away and take the cake instead. **

Sometimes it’s best to serve fruit instead of cake, even though all the healthy people would prefer cake.

What we have to keep in mind is that alcoholism and other addictions are diseases, sicknesses, and there are times when it is more important to save the person’s life rather than educate them.

For some addicted people, that first step off the wagon will often end up becoming a binge that takes weeks or months to recover from. All the work has to start over again. No wonder so many alcoholics die of their disease. It’s so hard for them to maintain sobriety.

We shouldn’t be part of this. We should do all that we can humanly do to help those who are struggling with this disease.

The Church has greatly decreased the use of incense in the Mass, citing that many people suffer from respiratory conditions and can’t bear incense.

Why is the Church willing to give up incense but not alcohol?

It is beyond me how anyone, especially a church which is supposed to demonstrate the sacrificial nature of God’s love, can deliberately offer something that may tempt an alcoholic to go off the wagon and start killing himself again.

Why not just go alcohol-free and be totally free of any responsibility for an alcoholic’s relapse?

Or is that one struggling alcoholic not worth it? Let him die. I’m not giving up my pleasure for the sake of one sicko.

That’s the impression that I’m getting from several people on this thread and many other threads on CAF about alcohol.

C’mon, there are plenty of places that those who wish to drink can drink. Go there and drink.

 

[nickybr38]

This is a great point my father has been dry for over a year and does not always withdrawl himself just because alcohal is around. He may leave early or go read a book but does not blame others for letting drinking rule his own life for years.

All very valid points, but some people are not as strong as others. This particular fellow avoids events where there is drinking because he knows he’s not strong enough to say no. He hasn’t built up coping mechanisms yet.

 

[nickybr38]

I think there are a few things here - one is that people tend to take it for granted at times tht people may know what is going on at events, forgetting that new people may have no idea what to expect.

But also, if the pastor of the congregation is teaching wrongly about alcohol, then it really becomes impossible for him to lead the congregation wisely. If they hid this from him, or failed to mention it, then how could he mention it to someone he knew might find it difficult? Or advise that this might not be the best event for alcohol without people dismissing him as a silly teetotaler?

Even on something like this, a pastor making his own fads into rules has a very negative effect on the whole congregation and mission of the church.

All very good points.

 

[Bluegoat]

Exactly. The alcoholics I’ve known who’ve stayed dry for years having coping strategies for being around others who are drinking socially. The alcoholics who expect everyone to abstain simply because they themselves can’t drink oftentimes don’t stay off the bottle for long. Or they go off and get back on the bottle for years and years. It’s a miserable existance.

Yes, that is the thing about addiction - it simply isn’t possible, or desirable, for many people to totally escape the object that is a problem for them. I think it is normal for the newly sober to have to avoid social gatherings of all kinds, which is why groups dedicated to people in that situation are so important. But an alcoholic has to find a way to separate himself mentally and emotionally from alcohol or he won’t be successful in the long term.

The man in the OP probably thought, based on his experience, that Christians don’t drink, so he thought it would be ok. Ideally the pastor or someone in a position of authority should have stepped in and helped him out.

 

[Cat]

Yes, that is the thing about addiction - it simply isn’t possible, or desirable, for many people to totally escape the object that is a problem for them. I think it is normal for the newly sober to have to avoid social gatherings of all kinds, which is why groups dedicated to people in that situation are so important. But an alcoholic has to find a way to separate himself mentally and emotionally from alcohol or he won’t be successful in the long term.

The man in the OP probably thought, based on his experience, that Christians don’t drink, so he thought it would be ok. Ideally the pastor or someone in a position of authority should have stepped in and helped him out.

Maybe the pastor felt the same way that some of the people on this thread feel: “That’s HIS problem, not mine. Let him learn to deal with it. I’m having another drink! After all, Jesus allows it.”

 

[Bluegoat]

Maybe the pastor felt the same way that some of the people on this thread feel: “That’s HIS problem, not mine. Let him learn to deal with it. I’m having another drink! After all, Jesus allows it.”

That is not what people are saying. I would expect most people here would want to step in to help someone who they realized was having trouble.

That is not the same as saying we should disallow playing cards for pennies at the parish camping trip because someone is a gambling addict. We don’t say an objective good is not because someone uses it incorrectly.

And do you really not think a pastor or elder has a special responsibility ? This situation was what we used to call a leadership failure when I was in the army. If people were actually drunk, why did no one step in? If they weren’t, why didn’t someone offer the man a ride home, and explain the church’s teaching on alcohol, and have a cup of coffee with him to keep him company? Where was the pastor, or wardens, or elders? Were they not even involved in the planning?

 

[dprewett]

All very valid points, but some people are not as strong as others. This particular fellow avoids events where there is drinking because he knows he’s not strong enough to say no. He hasn’t built up coping mechanisms yet.

Then he is doing the correct thing. there are many non drinking groups for him to hang with. My dads social calander is full through the end of the year. I hope one day your friend will be able to join back in some other events also. You do not cancel the track meet because not everyone can swim, you have special races for them. God bless the man you are talking about and i hope God builds his streinght

 

[nickybr38]

Then he is doing the correct thing. there are many non drinking groups for him to hang with. My dads social calander is full through the end of the year. I hope one day your friend will be able to join back in some other events also. You do not cancel the track meet because not everyone can swim, you have special races for them. God bless the man you are talking about and i hope God builds his streinght

More importantly, hopefully he does find faith. I know he’s looking.

So we’ve been able to sum up an answer to my original question. The majority seem to say alcohol is okay at church functions.

I would say that making it clear alcohol is being offered would be a good avenue to go down though.

 

[dprewett]

More importantly, hopefully he does find faith. I know he’s looking.

So we’ve been able to sum up an answer to my original question. The majority seem to say alcohol is okay at church functions.

I would say that making it clear alcohol is being offered would be a good avenue to go down though.

That makes great since

 

[Corki]

Why is the Church willing to give up incense but not alcohol?

Thankfully, I have never belonged to a parish that did away with incense but that’s not a very fair comparison. Incense is part of the Mass and used in the Church itself. People need to be at Mass. People don’t need to be at a campground get together.

And where would it end? Do we ban desserts at the Spaghetti dinner because there are diabetics there? Or maybe we need to ban Spaghetti dinners completely because some parishioners might be gluten intollerant? And anything billed as “all you can eat” would have to go because of the obese or overeaters in the parish.

 

[Graubo3]

I think that the other members could be more distraught over her so cavalierly shacking up with a guy in a tent for the whole weekend. Wonder what the other members thought was going on in there.

Peace, Graubo

I also think that the guy playing the ruse of being on the wagon was just to get into her tent.

Peace, Graubo