Alcohol, fundamentalism and the Wedding of Cana

[babochka]

Alcohol is a factor in 50% of all auto accidents. (Sleepiness is a factor in the other 50%.)

Hmmm… I’ve been at fault in 1 accident in 30 years of driving. It was caused by teenage angst and impatience. I was so wrapped up in my own thoughts and anger (at my father) that I didn’t wait for a side window to defrost and I pulled right out in front of someone. I was not drunk and I was not sleepy. Neither was the other driver. (This is why teenagers have higher insurance rates.) Where does that one fit in? You’ve already accounted for 100% of accidents.

 

[babochka]

Do you think it’s healthy to drink alcohol to escape?

Does the Church teach that it’s OK to drink alcohol to escape?

I don’t drink, mostly because I don’t like the taste and I’m a bit of a control freak, so the thought of being drunk does not appeal to me at all. I have great respect for your position against drinking and I think it is a safe position to take, as a personal stance.

I don’t think it is a good idea to drink alcohol to escape and I don’t know what the Church has to say about it, but I do know what the Bible has to say about it.

Proverbs 31:6 “Give strong drink to anyone who is perishing, and wine to the embittered; When they drink, they will forget their misery, and think no more of their troubles.”

This sounds like an endorsement of drinking alcohol to escape. Now, in fairness, the verse before states that Kings and Princes should not drink, lest they forget and violate the rights of those in needs. This seems like an endorsement of sobriety at all times. I guess we can have it both ways, depending upon the individual and that person’s specific needs and state in life.

In the Psalms we learn that wine gladdens man’s heart; in fact, it seems that it is given to man for that purpose. ( You bring bread from the earth, and wine to gladden our hearts, Oil to make our faces gleam, food to build our strength.)

Of course, it is not just another drink. It is neither universally condemned nor praised in the Bible, but seen for what it is - a substance that can be enjoyed and used to alter a mood, soothe the spirit and aid in emotional escape, or numb the pain of one dying. It can also contribute to poor judgement and leave one open to great evil, as in the case with Lot’s daughters.

The Bible also makes it clear that some are called to complete sobriety, never to touch alcohol (John the Baptist, Samson), but it is also clear that this prohibition does not apply to everyone. I think it is safe to leave it at that, and take a neutral position on the choices of others where they differ from ours.

 

[YADA]

YADA—Cat wasn’t “demonizing” alcohol. Your response is almost as if you didn’t really make an attempt to actually read her post in any thoughtful way.

Perhaps I misunderstood Cat’s stance - but she said she was addicted to sodas … and Cat implied that Catholics have some special ‘drinking culture’ [as have others] which is an unsupported generalization … and asked me to give an inanimate object the respect it deserves

But please, give alcohol the respect it deserves.

…

I am sorry - in animate objects are not worthy of respect - people are [or are not] … Our Lord gets my respect and worship …

That’s not a real quote from Ben Franklin, BTW, despite its popularity on tee shirts and on the internet.

LOL … its a quote my boss uses at times in jest … I’ll tell him that his Ben Franklin quote is bogus … hopefully he will take it well …

I stated - clearly I thought - I am not a beer drinker [on those occasions when the work crowd gores for “beer” and I have a glass of red wine - I order hard cider - it looks like beer , comes in a pint and tastes far better ] … My Lord turned water into the best wine ever tasted on this earth … 120 gallons … for a wedding feast - a feast that celebrates the unitive force on earth - marriage - where man and woman are united … where two become so joined together they will join in the procreative process that has to be named 9 months later … While some may take wine and misuse it [as they do many other good things God gifted mankind with] it does not mean that the gift is the problem …

Pax

 

[Cat]

Hmmm… I’ve been at fault in 1 accident in 30 years of driving. It was caused by teenage angst and impatience. I was so wrapped up in my own thoughts and anger (at my father) that I didn’t wait for a side window to defrost and I pulled right out in front of someone. I was not drunk and I was not sleepy. Neither was the other driver. (This is why teenagers have higher insurance rates.) Where does that one fit in? You’ve already accounted for 100% of accidents.

Statistics can be messed with.

I’ve seen the 50% for alcohol quoted over and over again in articles, and I’ve seen the 50%for sleepiness quoted, too.

Someone else in this thread quoted a stat of “30% of auto accidents involve alcohol.”

And I’ve seen large stats for “youth/inexperience” as a factor in auto accidents, too, which would fit your experience.

So obviously, there is some rounding up or down here, and the numbers are not at all exact.

The stats may vary, depending on which report or article (or even city!) you’re in, but we can’t deny it or downplay it–alcohol is a factor in a LOT of auto accidents.

 

[Cat]

Saint John Vianey

WINE IS HIS GOD

(truncated by Cat for space)

Thank you so much for posting this! It is very encouraging for me to see that there are Catholics who recognize the tragedy, sin, and serious addictiveness of drunkenness, and don’t just joke about it.

St. John Vianney is the patron saint of priests, so he was and is well-acquainted with real people suffering real heartbreak. Bless him for preaching this thought-provoking homily.

This gets back to the OP’s post about why Protestant fundamentalists abstain in spite of the Cana Wedding Miracle. In my first post on this thread, I answered the question by referring to the passage in I Thessalonians, in which St. Paul admonishes believers to avoid the “appearance of evil.”

It’s more than that. Catholics of all people should understand–as Christians, we need to identify with the sufferings of others and join with them in their suffering. I hear homilies about this all the time, and see examples among the saints and current Catholics–those who give up all their privileges and live among the lowly in a life of service. The most well-known example in contemporary times is Mother Teresa, who wore a habit that suggested the garb of the people of Calcutta, and lived in the same place where they lived and died.

THAT’S why many “fundamentalist” Protestants avoid alcohol–they read stories about people like the ones St. John Vianney describes, and like several posters on this thread, and they identify with these sufferers and determine that they will never, ever put a stumbling block in their way.

It doesn’t matter whether alcohol is “OK”. Of course it’s OK. All things are OK for Christians, when they are used properly.

But alcohol has a history of personal and societal tragedies, and “fundamentalist” Protestants and many others CHOOSE to stay away from it because we don’t want to be associated with a substance that has caused so many of our fellow human beings to fall into sin.

You say that alcohol doesn’t cause someone to sin–the person’s own weakness causes them to sin. That’s all the more reason to stay away from alcohol–we all have our weaknesses, and it is a kindness for others to help us to stay strong. We need to identify with others and join with others to help them fight their weaknesses and not give in.

Yes, I have an addictive personality and yes, I have a hard time with disciplining myself. So…is the Catholic attitude, “That’s your problem, honey!” Or is the Catholic attitude, “What can I personally do to help you become stronger?”

 

[SyroMalankara]

___ is addictive to someone with addictive personality. I’m not saying a church should or should not have alcohol at its events, it’s up to the members and their priest. However, because ___ is addictive to someone is no reason for the entire parish to devest themselves of ___. Have you mentioned to your school/church/employer/friends that your soda addiction requires you to have them throw out their soda? Or BBQ, or red meat, or whatever ___ is?

The ol’ alcohol = fatal car accident is certainly misleading. Perhaps the person driving should have ridden a bicycle. One could certainly blame the car culture, the American individualism culture, the lack-of-affordable-convenient public transportation culture, the lack of free-self-driving-car culture, the all-cars-need-to-be-insulated culture, the improper airbag manufacturer issue, or a host of other reasons not to blame the responsible party.

 

[z_0101]

There are very good reasons for a Christian not to drink.
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Some people should not drink at all.
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Having said, that. I don’t believe having an alcoholic beverage in itself is a sin.
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The Bible never calls it sin. It does, however call drunkenness a sin.
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So, the take-away for me is that if you can drink responsibility-not a sin.

I think that sums it up very nicely without all of the hyperbole

To those with addictions that have posted, to those that are lurking, my prayers for you… I read many a very passionate post here and there is no good reply to those posts but prayer for the poster.

In our RCIA program when we get to the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick, Father would tell us, “If you have a problem getting drunk. If you have a problem with using drugs. Then please come and receive this Sacrament… these are not only sinful but also physical and physiological illnesses and this sacrament will help you to accept and to heal” So, please, if you are wounded by these addictions go to the next healing Mass or arrange to receive the SoA.

and as this thread as gone full circle… I’m a going to takeoff… :takeoff:

 

[Sarcelle]

A good glass of red wine makes me happy but seriously i totally support the potential for technology in the future to make it impossible for someone intoxicated to operate a car. The alcohol industry is very opposed to such future car technologies because they are much more concerned with $$$ than human life. They are a bunch of dirt bags.

There are current efforts underway in the development of the self-driving car. Maybe this could be the answer.