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Timothysis
Guest
True, However I did not maintain that the Bible prohibited the practice.
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Timothysis
Guest
Alcohol (wine) is, by definition, grape juice that has been fermented.
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Kount_C
Guest
I just have a hard time, believing that God would had made something so evil to have fun at a wedding party. .
Maybe, I take life to seriously? I don’t know. I have a vendetta against alcohol users, so that’s why I’m uptight having grown up in an alcohol using home. Nothing against anyone here, or anything. To me, alcohol creates laziness, and complacency, the opposite of success and well being.
I don’t have a problem with the other 99.9% of church teachings, just this one. I just think it contradicts any rationality.
I had been told also, that it wasn’t until in the turn of the last century or so, that all churches stopped using alcoholic wine, instead of grape juice. Due to alcoholics attending church services, with fear of relapse.
From what I understand, it used to be the same for ABC, but that is a topic for another post.
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Kount_C
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I have no doubt there are people who can handle there alcohol. But I've never met anyone successful; that was a typical beer drinker. Someone who has to have their tall boy leaving the parking lot at work. Unless that person was genetically gifted with a high IQ and genetically advantaged in academics so much that they get a free ride in life.
Alcohol lets you feel complacent and alright with life, or unsatisfied and emotionally drained. Wouldn't it make more sense, to just keep it out? Leave no stone unturned?
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If I was going to do any drug it would be Dianabol, or Adderall; something that allows me to grow stronger or smarter, and work 12-18 hours a day. instead of something that is going to make me fat and lazy.
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Kount_C
Guest
When you have a large portion of your life taken away from you due to other people’s loose morals, it tends to put a pair of lenses on your eyes.
I wouldn’t consider a papal chair the definition of success, since its a spiritual calling
but I do enjoy the Meme, thank you. .
The typically beer drinker is, anyone who needs to have a beer in their car while leaving work, anyone who needs to have a beer after work, anyone who needs to have a beer to socialize, anyone who needs a beer to have a “Good Time”. Anyone who buys more then 6 at a time.
So much better things to do with your time. I’ve always seen alcohol use as a sign of weakness personally.
I have grown up in a community and family setting of heavy alcohol use and drug use. I do not differentiate the two. But… nothing against you. Just giving my 2 cents, on the forum if its even worth that much.
Cheer! have a good weekend
I wouldn’t consider a papal chair the definition of success, since its a spiritual calling
but I do enjoy the Meme, thank you. .
The typically beer drinker is, anyone who needs to have a beer in their car while leaving work, anyone who needs to have a beer after work, anyone who needs to have a beer to socialize, anyone who needs a beer to have a “Good Time”. Anyone who buys more then 6 at a time.
So much better things to do with your time. I’ve always seen alcohol use as a sign of weakness personally.
I have grown up in a community and family setting of heavy alcohol use and drug use. I do not differentiate the two. But… nothing against you. Just giving my 2 cents, on the forum if its even worth that much.
Cheer! have a good weekend
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Timothysis
Guest
Is it better to sit in front of the tv from the time you get home until time to go to bed? Or what of a person who spends every available moment with their nose stuck in a book? Drinking alcohol is no different than these examples or even of the abuse of eating. Morally neutral acts are not the problem. While I agree that too many people can’t seem to enjoy life without a drink in their hands, what should you or I expect from them otherwise? I live my life and let others live (or even not live) theirs.
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z_0101
Guest
- As for the drinking wine like we drink “pepsi”/soda… yes and no in that unlike soda, wine in biblical times (and even now in many parts of Europe) it was often greatly diluted with water in order to render the water itself safe to drink. It’s old (as in beginning of the world) knowledge that using fermented beverages would make water safe to drink in a time when water was often dangerous to drink.
- Having also a Baptist background, I respectfully disagree with the statement that “no-one associated any evil with alcohol.” Abuse and drunkenness were well known in biblical times and there are many warnings in both old and new testaments about the evil of abuse. Many of the christian faiths that prohibit the consumption tend to pull passages out of context (such as Proverbs20:1 (below)) and ignore the remaining text and other parts of the bible. Same arguments as used when we discuss the Eucharist, they want it to be symbolic and pull passages out of context to support; whereas, we hold the Eucharist to be the true presence and pull passages out (although we tend to do so in more context and refer back to the old languages).
These are all KJV… a few do read slightly different in the DR or RSV-CE - however, I’m being lazy today and just pulling straight from the KJV.
1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Ephesians 5:18 - And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Romans 13:13 - Let us walk honestly, as in the day; **not **in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Isaiah 5:11 - **Woe **unto them that **rise up early **in the morning, [that] they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, [till] wine inflame them!
1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant;** because your adversary the devil**, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Leviticus 10:9 -** Do not drink wine nor strong drink,** thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye **go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: **[it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations.
( I have about 60 straight out and more with the cross references)
Then I have a few dozen about the proper use of wine for dining, celebrations, and medical usage, I think just the one here will be enough to show that there were also very permissible useages :
1 Timothy 5:23 - Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.
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z_0101
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St Therese the little flower, St Maria Goretti, The Archangel Raphael
I ask in the name of our Lord Christ, that you look upon Kount, and pray to our Lord and Father asking for healing of the wounds so deeply inflicted upon Kount and all others suffering from those same wounds. Would, if it be the will of our our Lord, that they be healed emotionally, spiritually, and physically for we know that He only will it so and such would be.
In the name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit, I most humbly pray for this grace and miracle of healing.
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Kount_C
Guest
I’d rather lift weights or work on a masters degree then drink. I am most passionate about making the most money humanly possible, while doing the least bit of labor. Its what drives me the most; but that’s just me.
I’ve always looked at alcohol its self as the enemy. The fast pace way to end up working in an american sweat shop (in central Florida), and playing the dead end game the rest of my life. I haven’t watched TV in like 4 years or so;I don’t want the mental distraction when I’m studying. I feel like people who drink on a regular basis,do not get it.
So I’m obsessive about work habit. I have learned what the alternative is.I have no desire to work with alcoholics in a Florida boat factory sucking down quarts on lunch breaks while they smoke their blunts. Much like everyone else I grew up with. I do not look forward to anything in terms of "Relaxing " in life. I only want success, and quality. For me, that means cutting out any negative and being as aggressive as possible. I wasn’t born with good genetics, to be some “Gifted” child in school, so I work my butt off, 6-18 hours a day.
I have no problem, if someone wants to pop some pro vigil or adderall for performance enhancing or dianabol; because you have to do what you have to do, to survive.
No offense to anyone here, I love these conversations. but I’m going to cut my responses, now, because I trailed off the OP’s post. this was about Fundamental protestant stance on alcohol, not about my opinion.
I’m sorry for that.
Cheers!
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Cat
Guest
Humans require food for survival.
Sex is required for the continuance of the human race, and the Bible is very clear that sex within marriage is God’s plan.
Alcohol consumption is not required for survival or pleasure.
Any good thing can be twisted. I am not saying that alcohol use is wrong. I am saying that the use of alcohol in the United States is associated with so much tragedy and abuse and crime and “evil” that it would be better for Christians to avoid it.
Hopefully Christians who make a decision to use alcohol will avoid sinning with it and be a good example to those who would use alcohol for sin. And hopefully, Christians will not drink to “be happy,” and hopefully they won’t drink to the point where it affects their behavior in any way.
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Cat
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Not according to the law of the land. You’ve heard the commercials: buzzed driving IS drunk driving. It’s not just a slogan, it’s the truth. If your blood alcohol measures above the legal limit, you’re drunk, and you’re a danger to others if you drive.
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Cat
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Of course people got drunk and did harm to themselves and others. I’m not denying that.
In fact, since others have mentioned it, I’ll take it back and say that alcohol has always been associated with evil and abuse, and it has increased through the centuries.
It’s beyond me why Christians feel that they need alcohol to make life better. I will never understand it.
I’m out of this thread. I answered the OP’s question. The topic is, “How do non-drinking fundamentalists explain the miracle of Jesus turning water into wine.” All this discussion is off-topic.
I will never change my mind on this issue. No use trying. I’m 57 years old, and every year that goes by, including the ten years that I’ve been Catholic, has only reinforced my convictions that Christians should have nothing to do with alcohol. My opinion doesn’t affect any of you or your drinking habits, so you’re OK. And so am I.
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hazcompat
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Proverbs 31:
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It is not for kings, Lemuel,
not for kings to drink wine;
strong drink is not for princes,
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Lest in drinking they forget what has been decreed,
and violate the rights of any who are in need.
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Give strong drink to anyone who is perishing,
and wine to the embittered;
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When they drink, they will forget their misery,
and think no more of their troubles.
Peace
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It is not for kings, Lemuel,
not for kings to drink wine;
strong drink is not for princes,
5
Lest in drinking they forget what has been decreed,
and violate the rights of any who are in need.
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Give strong drink to anyone who is perishing,
and wine to the embittered;
7
When they drink, they will forget their misery,
and think no more of their troubles.
Peace
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Kount_C
Guest
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I feel lke that can't be taken in a literal sense. Being that no one can forget their misery when drunk. But, I think the wisdom conveys that if you have it good, then stay away from it. Only those on the bottom drink, they do it to deal with their problems, ect.
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hazcompat
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1 Timothy 5: 23 Stop drinking only water, but have a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Peace
Peace
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Kount_C
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What is that referring to ? What is the illness? I had heard at one time, that the water supplies where so bad, often times, wine is what was drank because of sanitary reasons.
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z_0101
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MartinJordan
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It was the miracle of water into wine, since it was miracle why did is it a problem for those Christian denominations in the first place ?
Perhaps the question is, it is the First Miracle recorded in the Bible by Jesus. What does it mean for Bible only Christians who claim they follow Jesus?
MJ
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ltwin
Guest
The miracle is not the issue. This is really just a legacy of a massive number of American women fed up that their husbands were alcoholics and that this was accepted and, in many cases, encouraged by American society.
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It means that we take the Scriptures seriously when it condemns drunkenness (Isaiah 5:11, 1 Corinthians 6:10), and we would rather not indulge in a substance that has been such a problem in our culture.
I don’t, however, think that drinking in moderation is a sin (even though I would not do even that), and I don’t think its right to say that it is a sin. It’s proof texting.
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