Alcohol in your family

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Of course, Scotland has problems with drinking, but it always had - traditionally, the countries of Northern Europe used alcohol as anaesthetic against the cold, rather than for entertainment, and that’s still a part of the culture here and in places like Poland and Scandinavia. I don’t think that has anything to do with the drinking age, but with bad parenting, bad role models and deeper social problems. In places like France and Spain the legal age is 16 or even younger, and people drink much more responsibly than the Americans or the Scots.
Northern Europe, Scandinavia, Poland, Russia have longstanding and great problems with alcoholism. Because of their cold harsh climate, fresh fruit and vegetables are expensive and hard to come by for most of the year, and so people easily end up deficient in potassium (which they would normally obtain from a diet rich in fruit and vegetables). In the days of limited transportation and food preservation, peoples of cold climates typically ended up severely deficient, clinically deficient, in potassium. Potassium is to muscles what calcium is to bones. The body needs potassium just to move… let alone to keep moving sufficiently to stay warm in winter.

When the body drinks alcohol the body mistakenly registers that it is obtaining potassium (fruits that naturally ferment into alcohol are high in potassium), but alcohol derived from grains/potatoes not only contains no potassium, but the alcohol further drives potassium out of the body… creating even more of a craving for potassium, driving the craving for yet more alcohol as the body becomes increasingly even more desperate for potassium… a vicious circle of potassium deficiency driving further potassium deficiency, and driving alcoholism.

Southern Europe, virtually wallowing in fresh and dried fruits and vegetables, tomato sauce and oranges year round, does not have the problem with alcoholism evident in cold climate regions because the prevalence of dietary potassium causes its population to be potassium rich, rather than largely deficient in potassium.

All other cultural, social, historical, and parenting considerations aside, potassium deficiency is a huge driving force in alcoholism.

In addition to the above, some people have a genetic requirement for dietary potassium that is higher than average, as do people who are physically very actively engaging in a whole lot of muscular movement/ hard physical labor all day long.
 
Liza,

It’s Wisconsin.

I didn’t realize quite how liberal our law was until there was a newspaper series called “Wasted in Wisconsin”; I knew we could serve alcohol to minors in our own home, but I didn’t realize they could legally drink with their parents in public.

Here’s a New York Times article about it:

nytimes.com/2008/11/16/us/16wisconsin.html

MB
 
From the previously linked article:
When it comes to drinking, it seems, no state keeps pace with Wisconsin. This state, long famous for its breweries, has led the nation in binge drinking in every year since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began its surveys on the problem more than a decade ago. Binge drinking is defined as five drinks in a sitting for a man, four for a woman.
People in Wisconsin are more likely than anywhere else to drive drunk, according to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health. The state has among the highest incidence of drunken driving deaths in the United States.
Now, what about all the posts insisting that allowing minors to drink with their parents would give them more healthy attitudes towards alcohol? Wisconsin has done just that – yet they have more alcohol-related problems than the states that enforce strict laws against underage drinking.
 
From the previously linked article:

Now, what about all the posts insisting that allowing minors to drink with their parents would give them more healthy attitudes towards alcohol? **Wisconsin has done just that **-- yet they have more alcohol-related problems than the states that enforce strict laws against underage drinking.
Wisconsin, didn’t do anything. They simply just didn’t enact any strict laws against underage consumption. So hasn’t many other states, and I don’t hear stories about them having big problems with alcohol.
 
Another thing I think of is this…

I’ve always typically hung out with an older crowd. I was fourteen and most of my friends were able to drive. I’d end up coming home from school in my friends’ cars. My mom was sure I’d get asked to prom. In college, my freshman year, my best friends turned out to be at least three years older than I am. Still holds true today.

OK, if my crowd tends to be older, what does that mean for my dating life? Obviously, in high school, it wasn’t happening, but in college, everything changed. My best guy friends are three and five years older and the guy I’m seeing now is three years older than I am.

This is where the law gets funny in my eyes. You see, if I, as a fourteen-year-old, dated someone three years older, and we fell into sin, that would have been statutory rape and he’d go to jail. Yet, at eighteen then and twenty now, as an adult, the law considers me responsible to have sex, even with all the consequences that come with it (currently, I live where 20-25% of my city has HIV/AIDS). At the same time, it’s still more sketchy for a guy I’m seeing to order us wine at a restaurant because I’m a “minor” but not to have sex with me (DISCLAIMER: I’m not having premarital sex, nor am I advocating, I’m just saying from a legal perspective)…

My point is, if I’m an adult, I should be treated as one in ALL respects. That means ALL rights and ALL responsibilities. And frankly, if I can’t be trusted with the stuff I put into my own body, as an adult, then I have no business signing a lease, voting, owning a gun, getting a tattoo, enlisting, smoking, getting married, going to the doctor by myself, or dating someone a few years older than I am…Or making ANY decisions regarding my life choices…Nor am I old enough to file taxes, get maximum prison sentences, or anything like that…Plain and simple…

You’re either an adult or not…Not when it’s convenient for the government and THAT, more than the drinking itself, is what I have a problem with.
 
From the previously linked article:

Now, what about all the posts insisting that allowing minors to drink with their parents would give them more healthy attitudes towards alcohol? Wisconsin has done just that – yet they have more alcohol-related problems than the states that enforce strict laws against underage drinking.
Amen! Evidence does seem to point to the conclusion that allowing people to drink at younger ages increases abuse of alcohol and tragically, results in more alcohol-related deaths, especially driving deaths. Moderation seems to be more of a hazy crazy dream than reality. Reality is, a LOT of kids (and adults) abuse alcohol in the U.S. I’m pretty certain that many of these kids come from families where parents encouraged them to drink moderately.

And please, don’t give me the lame argument that all kids have to go through their “party phase.” That’s just such bull. Do all kids have to go through their “stealing phase,” too? Or their “murder phase?” Or a “sexual freedom” phase (actually a lot of kids DO go through this phase, sadly.) There are a LOT of kids lying cold and stiff in their graves because they drank too much and killed themselves. ALL IT TAKES IS ONE PARTY for kids to die.

I agree (intellectually) that drinking alcohol is not a sin. But the Bible and the CHURCH (see Catechism of the Catholic Church) make it VERY CLEAR that DRUNKENESS is a SIN, and it can be a mortal sin. We should not laugh it off when people are drunk, or when our kids are going through that “party phase” during the college-aged years. It’s wrong, wrong, wrong in so many ways. It kills people, including innocent people like my aunt and uncle who never drank in their lives.

What we all forget about is that alcohol is an addictive DRUG, and there are quite a few people who simply can’t drink it without becoming addicted, both physically and psychologically.

I personally think that children and teenagers are MORE LIKELY than adults to become addicted if allowed to consume alcohol. I can’t even imagine offering children/teenagers a DRUG, a stinkin’ feel-good drug. What if your child happens to be one of those people that has the so-called “alcohol gene,” that pre-disposes them towards alcoholism? How will you feel when your child literally drinks himself/herself to death, or is arrested for date-rape, or is date-raped, or kills someone else on the highway? It’s happened to many many mothers and fathers.

When I was a newly-graduated medical technologist, I did an alcohol test on the blood sample of an 18-year-old girl who had killed THREE people in a driving accident. For months, I had to testify that yes, I did the test correctly and yes, her blood alcohol level was 0.17–just barely above legal limit, but enough to cause the tragic accident that deprived three people of their lives and sent this young girl to prison.

Why not just teach kids how to have fun and live a full life and enjoy the taste of food WITHOUT drugs? We don’t need wine to enjoy our food. We aren’t Italian or Polish or German or whatever, we’re Americans, and it seems that in the U.S., many of us don’t have any trouble eating lots and lots of food. Do we really need to add still more calories in the form of alcohol? Do we really need to lower our inhibitions at dinner time even more, so that we consume even more calories?

And do we really need to get up after eating that dinner and drive somewhere? In Europe, I understand that it is a tradition to stretch out the midday meal for a couple of hours, and then take a nap or a rest AFTER the meal–that’s not what we do in the U.S. We dash off to our next activity, usually driving to get there.

I think that the people who drink alcohol really need to come to terms with the FACT that alcohol is a DRUG.
 
From the previously linked article:

Now, what about all the posts insisting that allowing minors to drink with their parents would give them more healthy attitudes towards alcohol? Wisconsin has done just that – yet they have more alcohol-related problems than the states that enforce strict laws against underage drinking.
I have a question. Where is the proof that alcohol related problems is due to minors being allowed to drink(in certian circumstances)? I say this because you seem to be linking Wisconsin’s alcohol tollerence amoung people under 21 to it’s overall drinking probelms.
 
I grew up with drinking in my family and I hated it, than in my teens and 20’s, I binge drank until I did things I would never do sober with lasting consequences…Maybe if I didn’t see drinking all the time, maybe I would not have drank so much back then…I don’t know…what I do know is that I never drink now, my kids never have to see that…I’m in healthcare and I see what drinking does to people and families…It is bad for everyone and bad for society…I hate alcohol…
 
The drinking age in the U.S. should be kept where it is. Sorry, lowering it would increase the number of alcohol-related deaths in this country, especially from drunken-driving accidents.

How many more people would end up in the graveyard, if we lowered the drinking age? I don’t know, but I know the number is greater than 0.

Drunken driving is a scourge on this country, and our laws should be written in order to combat it, not promote it. Drunken driving takes a huge toll on American society - not just on the drinkers, but their victims, and the victim’s families.

If you’ve ever had a relative send to a hospital room, because of drunken driving, then you know exactly what I am talking about.
 
I have a question. Where is the proof that alcohol related problems is due to minors being allowed to drink(in certian circumstances)? I say this because you seem to be linking Wisconsin’s alcohol tollerence amoung people under 21 to it’s overall drinking probelms.
… and several previous posters (including #1, #5, and #17) had asserted that allowing minors to drink would reduce alcohol-related problems in a state. I think Wisconsin is a counterexample of this.
 
In 1980, a young man, aged 15, accompanied his mother, as they retrieved a busted vehicle from an impound lot in Cincinnati, Ohio. They vehicle belonged to the boy’s father, who was the mother’s husband, until they split up and divorced.

The vehicle had been in a devastating automobile accident. It had hit a telephone pole, straight on. The vehicle - an old-style VW Bug - had completed caved in. The front windshield had shattered, and the inside of vehicle was covered in broken glass. Old, crumpled-up beer cans littered the floor of the vehicle. The cans still carried the odor of the cheap beer - which the driver had imbibed, two nights before

But what was most noticable about the vehicle was the blood. The driver (the boy’s father) was not wearing his seatbelt, so when the vehicle hit the telephone pole, his face hit the windshield. The man bled out in the vehicle, so blood was everywhere, and the stench of the blood was repulsive. The paramedics arrived barely in time, two nights before, to rescue the man, stop his bleeding, and take him to the emergency room.

The father was not present for this spectacle, for he was still in hospital. After recuperating from his injuries, he was tried on DUI and reckless driving charges, and spent 30 days in the Hamilton County jail. DUI laws were much more liberal then (today, he could face hard time in the state penitentiary.)

The young man witnessed all this. He did not see the accident itself - but he saw the aftermath. And it left a lasting impression on him - one that endures, to this day.

========================================================

Yes, that young man was me. 29 years on, I am still harboring the rage, anger, and pain from what transpired.

I will never drink and drive. I will not tolerate those that do. I do not associate with people who drink and drive. I do not go to bars or taverns, where I will see drunken imbeciles preparing to get behind the wheel.

And I refuse for anyone in my household to drink - especially my adult daughter. She is 18, but even when she turns 21, she will not be allowed to drink in my own home. My son is 16, and the same rules will apply to him. And I refuse to let them associate with others who are drinkers. When they turn 21, if they want to drink, they’d better have their own apartment, by that point.

And if I were asked to vote on lowering the drinking age in this country, I will always vote no. I think this idea of lowering the drinking age is absolute heinous. I can’t believe our public policymakers could be this dumb, to propose this type of legislation. Are they really that stupid, or are they simply trying to pander to us again?

I will not allow my children to experience what I did, in that impound lot, all those years ago.
 
In 1980, a young man, aged 15, accompanied his mother, as they retrieved a busted vehicle from an impound lot in Cincinnati, Ohio. They vehicle belonged to the boy’s father, who was the mother’s husband, until they split up and divorced.

The vehicle had been in a devastating automobile accident. It had hit a telephone pole, straight on. The vehicle - an old-style VW Bug - had completed caved in. The front windshield had shattered, and the inside of vehicle was covered in broken glass. Old, crumpled-up beer cans littered the floor of the vehicle. The cans still carried the odor of the cheap beer - which the driver had imbibed, two nights before

But what was most noticable about the vehicle was the blood. The driver (the boy’s father) was not wearing his seatbelt, so when the vehicle hit the telephone pole, his face hit the windshield. The man bled out in the vehicle, so blood was everywhere, and the stench of the blood was repulsive. The paramedics arrived barely in time, two nights before, to rescue the man, stop his bleeding, and take him to the emergency room.

The father was not present for this spectacle, for he was still in hospital. After recuperating from his injuries, he was tried on DUI and reckless driving charges, and spent 30 days in the Hamilton County jail. DUI laws were much more liberal then (today, he could face hard time in the state penitentiary.)

The young man witnessed all this. He did not see the accident itself - but he saw the aftermath. And it left a lasting impression on him - one that endures, to this day.

========================================================

Yes, that young man was me. 29 years on, I am still harboring the rage, anger, and pain from what transpired.

I will never drink and drive. I will not tolerate those that do. I do not associate with people who drink and drive. I do not go to bars or taverns, where I will see drunken imbeciles preparing to get behind the wheel.

And I refuse for anyone in my household to drink - especially my adult daughter. She is 18, but even when she turns 21, she will not be allowed to drink in my own home. My son is 16, and the same rules will apply to him. And I refuse to let them associate with others who are drinkers. When they turn 21, if they want to drink, they’d better have their own apartment, by that point.

And if I were asked to vote on lowering the drinking age in this country, I will always vote no. I think this idea of lowering the drinking age is absolute heinous. I can’t believe our public policymakers could be this dumb, to propose this type of legislation. Are they really that stupid, or are they simply trying to pander to us again?

I will not allow my children to experience what I did, in that impound lot, all those years ago.
Bless your heart! YOUR POST is reality. The happy/friendly/funny beer ads with cartoon characters and talking frogs and girls wrestling in a fountain, the images of beautiful Europeans sitting outside sipping colorful wines with low-fat foods, the magazines with pictures of romantic couples drinking Margaritas at the beach, the whole idea of alcohol as a “family” beverage with meals–that’s the fantasy.
 
========================================================

Yes, that young man was me. 29 years on, I am still harboring the rage, anger, and pain from what transpired.

I will never drink and drive. I will not tolerate those that do. I do not associate with people who drink and drive. I do not go to bars or taverns, where I will see drunken imbeciles preparing to get behind the wheel.

And I refuse for anyone in my household to drink - especially my adult daughter. She is 18, but even when she turns 21, she will not be allowed to drink in my own home. My son is 16, and the same rules will apply to him. And I refuse to let them associate with others who are drinkers. When they turn 21, if they want to drink, they’d better have their own apartment, by that point.

And if I were asked to vote on lowering the drinking age in this country, I will always vote no. I think this idea of lowering the drinking age is absolute heinous. I can’t believe our public policymakers could be this dumb, to propose this type of legislation. Are they really that stupid, or are they simply trying to pander to us again?

I will not allow my children to experience what I did, in that impound lot, all those years ago.
AMEN! I can’t stand watching people drink…
 
I really treasure the memory of grandpa bringing out the liqueur tray after Thanksgiving and Christmas meals. All the pretty bottles and exotic glasses with yummy sweet concoctions…mmm. And little glasses of peach champagne before the meal - how fancy! This was part of our family culture.

We don’t have genetic history of alcoholism in our family. Neither my brother or I, or any relatives, have drinking problems. I will probably carry on the traditions we were raised with.

Prudential judgment, folks.
 
We don’t have genetic history of alcoholism in our family. Neither my brother or I, or any relatives, have drinking problems. I will probably carry on the traditions we were raised with.

Prudential judgment, folks.
Obviously, your family is very different from mine. For generations, every male member of my family was an alcoholic. Hence, I refuse to let alcohol be consumed in my family. This is best for my family - in my prudent judgment.

The story I conveyed to you was really just the begining of my father’s downfall. He and my mother had divorced a couple years before. My father had remarried, and his drinking had only gotten worse and worse. He was eventually fired - from the post office, of all places.

In 1986, his drinking had become out of control, and completely intolerable. He had closed himself off from most of his friends and family. I had moved off to college, and I had no contact with him, whatsoever. My sister - who was the only member of my family who still had contact with him - went over to his house. His entire refrigerator was packed with beer. There weren’t just beers in it - it was all beer. No food, nothing else, just beer.

One morning, I got a call at the payphone in my college dormatory. I went and took it. It was my mother calling, sobbing in tears.

**My father had finally ended his misery, by putting a .38 revolver to the side of his head, and pulled the trigger. **

=========================================================

I refuse to let this happen again. I don’t want another phone call like this - about my children, grandchildren, or anyone else in my family. That is why I refuse to let them drink. Period. End of story.
 
I can’t begin to empathise with what mrpathetic’s been through, but I know my involvement with homeless people in Glasgow has made me think twice about alcohol. There are times I think it would be better if we just banned it completely, but of course that’s not the answer, alcohol’s often a symptom rather than the source of problems, but it certainly makes those problems worse. Never drink when angry or upset. That’s the rule I keep to.
 
I can’t begin to empathise with what mrpathetic’s been through, but I know my involvement with homeless people in Glasgow has made me think twice about alcohol. There are times I think it would be better if we just banned it completely, but of course that’s not the answer, alcohol’s often a symptom rather than the source of problems, but it certainly makes those problems worse. Never drink when angry or upset. That’s the rule I keep to.
It won’t work to ban it. The Prohibition Amendment in the United States demonstrated that, and we are STILL experiencing the horrible consequences of the gangland liquor wars (I live in the state of Illinois, and many of us are convinced that the roots of our corrupt state politics is in Prohibition and the days of Capone, O’Banion, etc.).

Banning a dangerous substance only creates a criminal underground for that substance. It’s my personal opinion that drugs in the U.S. should be decriminalized. And I deplore what is happening with cigarettes in the U.S.–smokers are being positioned by the media as criminals.

I think the only thing that works is a good swift kick to the head and heart. When someone in the family is killed by a drunk driver, or when a daughter is date-raped, or when a loved one’s family is broken apart by alcohol abuse, or when someone contracts cirrhosis of the liver and dies a terrible death–that’s what makes people give up alcohol.

OR…when drinkers are challenged by non-drinkers like me to GIVE IT UP FOR A MONTH. When they try this, many drinkers discover that the alcohol has a much greater hold over them than they thought it did, and this wakes them up to their own addiction and the need to expunge this substance from their lives. Not all alcoholics are skid row gutter bums.

The other thing that often works is when people take a hard look at the negative effects that alcohol has on health. Yes, there are studies demonstrating that a glass of red wine or one beer each day is helpful to the heart. How many people stop at one glass of red wine or one beer a day? I suppose many do, and that’s great. But when I go out, I see a lot of people with a full table of empty beer bottles, and several empty bottles of wine. That’s not healthy. The list of negative effects of alcohol on health is much longer than the list of positive effects. THAT list makes a lot of people give up or severely curtail their drinking.

For some people, it’s the calories. Even light beers are calories you don’t need. I believe it was Glamour Magazine that recently recommended giving up all alcohol to lose ten pounds and keep it off.

Disagree? Fine. But the OP asked, and I’m telling. It’s very rare in the U.S. to meet up with a total abstainer, and I’m taking advantage of this opportunity to help you to understand why we live alcohol-free.
 
I think the only thing that works is a good swift kick to the head and heart. When someone in the family is killed by a drunk driver, or when a daughter is date-raped, or when a loved one’s family is broken apart by alcohol abuse, or when someone contracts cirrhosis of the liver and dies a terrible death–that’s what makes people give up alcohol.
Agreed. If anyone should know, it is me.

My father’s suicide devastated my family. My sister eventually ended up spending time in a psychiatric facility. My mother began experiencing a lot of stress-related health problems, and died a premature death, from multiple-organ failure.

And me? Well, if you’ve been following this board for more than a month, you know how angry I am - callous, bitter, resentful, and unsympathetic. Many of you have accused me of lacking in Christian charity; now you know why. There’s a rage in me, deep down, that I simply cannot let go of. I think much of it stems from these events with my father. I am still angry at a man, whom I did not control, for events that took place 23 years ago, in a place where I did not live.

So I would not want to put any member of my family through this. That is why we simply do not drink in our family. I don’t want my descendants to cope with what I have been through.

I encourage you to do the same with your family. Or do as you wish - and accept the consequences. Just don’t blame me, if someday you get the phone call…
 
… and several previous posters (including #1, #5, and #17) had asserted that allowing minors to drink would reduce alcohol-related problems in a state. I think Wisconsin is a counterexample of this.
Okay, so you think it’s a counterexample, no proof right?
 
I really treasure the memory of grandpa bringing out the liqueur tray after Thanksgiving and Christmas meals. All the pretty bottles and exotic glasses with yummy sweet concoctions…mmm. And little glasses of peach champagne before the meal - how fancy! This was part of our family culture.

We don’t have genetic history of alcoholism in our family. Neither my brother or I, or any relatives, have drinking problems. I will probably carry on the traditions we were raised with.

Prudential judgment, folks.
Our favorite tradition which has been in the family for many a years is to make booze balls. Basically it’s chocolate, vanilla, and liquor(Grand Marnier, Brandy, and dark Rum). You keep the different liquors/liqueurs separate of course. This is just rough out line of it though. The real recipe we keep secret. Another tradition that I’ve started is wine making. I’m actually putting a bottle in fair to be judged.

Personally I don’t think the legal possession and purchase age need to be lowered. What does need to happen is people need to become more responsible with alcohol(young and old).
 
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