Alien baptism okay by pope francis

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tommydude2112 said:
I know there’s a lot of controversy about this but only humans have souls
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No controversy at all. Only humans and angels have IMMORTAL souls. Other living things have souls that die with the living thing.

In Latin “Anima” means breath or soul.

Where does the word “animal” come from?
 
may I point out a possible precedent to this. In the ninth century the monk Ratramnus of Corbie once wrote a treatise on weather or not dog headed men had souls and were worthy of baptism. They were believed in the medieval imagination to inhabit distant and strange places. They were called cynocephali. it is not quite the same thing, but it was a theoretical rational being potentially posessing a soul. I unfortunately do not have a link or remember exactly what conclusions he reached but thought I would throw this out there in case anybody wants to investigate. sorry for the lack of much to contribute aside from a fun fact.
 
agnes_therese said:
But interesting to consider, nonetheless.
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Indeed and at a more practical level with respect to evangelizing. One of my best friends, a retired science teacher and vocal atheist/agnostic (hard to pin him down on that one), often throws out the argument against my faith that with billions of galaxies containing trillions of starts that host Lord knows how many planets, the probability that the conditions leading to life, maybe even intelligent life, exist in the universe is quite high and we are probably not alone. He then proudly struts that he’s demolished my faith in a unique God (the guy’s 73 so has a tendency to repeat himself :rolleyes: )

My response:

-The existence of life elsewhere doesn’t preclude a unique Creator
-The existence of life elsewhere is neither proved or disproved
-The existence of intelligent life elsewhere is neither proved nor disproved
-That intelligent life exists elsewhere doesn’t preclude the possibility that God made a unique covenant with we humans
-That He made a unique covenant with we humans doesn’t mean He couldn’t cut some other kind of “deal” with other life forms elsewhere
-That intelligent life does not exist elsewhere is also a statistical possibility because the happy coincidence of conditions necessary for life is quite complex (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_habitability)

Hence, I tell my friend, your mental exercise has done nothing to shake my faith in God but has shaken my faith in the teaching of logic in our educational institutions :p.

So it is interesting to ponder these things just so we can have another arrow in our quiver when non-believers trot out the possibility of life elsewhere in the Universe as somehow being antithetical to the existence of a unique God .
 
twf said:
I don’t understand this. Rational or not, why would we assume that any given alien race is part of our economy of salvation? Christ assumed HUMAN flesh in order to redeem it. Our sacraments, our Church, is for the sons of Adam. The Son of God became a Son of man so that the sons of men might become sons of God. Little Green Men may have their own covenant with the Creator.
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I agree with this too, but if they served the same God, it wouldn’t hurt to have them join us in baptism if they asked, even if it’s not necessary for their souls to be saved. 🙂 They could do it as a way of showing communion with us. 🙂
 
Genesis315 said:
I don’t think this was meant to be a serious comment by the Pope–he appears to be using hyperbole to emphasize the universal call to conversion and baptism. But this question does seem to come up a lot, and I would argue that it would not be right to baptize aliens.

The salvation of man is linked to the incarnation. God became man so man might become God and it is through Baptism that man is incorporated into Christ. **Pope St. Zachary condemned the idea that there could be human beings on other planets, because it meant that they did not come from Adam and Eve (and all human beings come from two original parents). **If aliens therefore are not humans. If they had immortal souls and sinned, like the fallen angels, they couldn’t be saved–unless some other person of the Trinity became incarnate as an alien–but this has not happened–and according to St. Anselm in the Cur Deus Homo, any other person of the Trinity becoming incarnate would not be wholly fitting (the Father-Son relationship is what made it fitting for the Second Person to lower Himself).
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LOL Have you ever seen Stargate? ;)🙂
 
Which begs a myriad of questions.

What if the male of their species gives birth?

Would we need to create/add a catalogue of new Rites?
 
Brendan said:
That would be the theologically accurate thing to do.

Since they are clearly living, they have a soul. A soul distinguished living matter from dead matter. All living things have a soul.

Since they were able to question, the soul would be, by definition, a rational one.

Since the question is one of actively and truely seeking Baptism, that can only be sought by Grace.

Ergo, the alien who asked that question would be one with a rational soul moved by Grace to seek Salvation.
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I’d challenge that assertion.

They may have a rational soul, but are they human?

If they aren’t, then they are not entitled to the economy of salvation, who assumed a human nature. I would posit that only a descendant of Adam can be validly baptized, and that other rational beings must be subject to their own economy of salvation God laid out for them, if he saw it fit to do so.

Therefore, I would state that:

Sarek cannot be baptized.
But Spock can.
 
SecretCatholic said:
Would a not-organically-alive but questioning machine be able to receive baptism? Would an incredibly bright, talking chimpanzee be able to receive baptism? Did Jesus die for questioning machines and talking chimpanzees? Did he die for extraterrestrials?
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The key is animated by a soul that responds to Grace.

In the case of a questioning machine, that is not an indicator of actual Reason. My computer questioned me for a login when I sat down to it. But it did not Reason the existence of passwords as a power of a soul.

‘Brightness’ is likewise not an indicator of Reason. An embryo is not Intellectually aware, but is animated by a Rational Soul. A Class of soul that can engage with the Intellect of God and respond to Grace
 
losh14 said:
Why limit yourself to a mere 4 dimensions when 10 dimensions comprise the physical universe?
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Razanir said:
I’m not. The Cthulhu sushi only gave me the ability to see in 4 dimensions. Although I’ve heard rumors that Azathoth steak lets one see in 6.
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Whoahohoho!! I gotta try that! :whacky: Off to get me a Necronomicon and forge a cosmic sushi knife!

While we’re on the subject though, I wonder where the Pope might place Satan in light of extra-dimensional evils. I know Cthulhu’s been pit against Godzilla but… 🤷
 
porthos11 said:
…Therefore, I would state that:

Sarek cannot be baptized.
But Spock can.
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Hello,

That’s a good way to put it since it is usually said that anyone born of a human female, and thus an inheritor of original sin, is a possible subject of baptism.

Dan
 
SAVINGRACE said:
Sorry. Mea culpa. 😊

I read it, found it interesting, confirmed on Catholic sources that HH said it and I posted it on here.

You can delete the thread if you want.
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Aw, that wouldn’t be fun. I suggest moving this to the Back Fence. It’d fit right in with all our talk of AI, aliens, tinfoil hats, and extra-dimensional cephalopods. :whacky:
 
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...aPu9SsJxLH_bSZrOXUb2yjkmYViRRDgMQBHnX_Q6Bqbcg
Thomas_Casey said:
Very strange thread. Not sure how to moderate this one.
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LOL!! :rotfl:
porthos11 said:
If Stargate were our basis, then I would also posit that since those humans from around the galaxy are actually descended from the Tau’ri, then they are indeed eligible to receive Baptism.
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👍🙂
SAVINGRACE said:
Sorry. Mea culpa. 😊

I read it, found it interesting, confirmed on Catholic sources that HH said it and I posted it on here.

You can delete the thread if you want.
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No! This thread is fun. :)😃
 
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