Alien Covenant: What is wrong with movies these days?

  • Thread starter Thread starter IWantGod
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
BoomBoomMancini said:
But I’m already stipulating that. So I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here. :confused:

You’re sort of making my point. Even if you live through a period or experience an event, you still can’t be totally sure that your experience was representative. For example, to take your WWII veteran example. I’m an Iraq War veteran. I have a perspective on the Iraq War that is a little more personal than people who weren’t there. But that doesn’t mean that I know everything about it, or that people who weren’t there can’t also have an informed opinion. My experience was just one little sliver of the whole. I’ve met many people who never deployed who had a better handle on Middle East politics than soldiers who were actually there.
Click to expand...
That’s why I study World War II history: to get the full picture of what my dad went through. All of the other vets I knew were from different units and had different experiences but they all faced the same enemy, the same or similar tactical situations and saw their buddies die. Politics meant nothing to these men. Their country called and they went. No questions asked.

Oh yeah, my experience was representative. Definitely. Without a doubt. My family was closer to Leave it to Beaver. We knew they were actors, but if they were not, I would have liked to have had them as neighbors. One actress from the period was asked about the character she played. She said: “Oh that was me. You saw me acting on TV as pretty much me.”

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
That’s why I study World War II history: to get the full picture of what my dad went through. All of the other vets I knew were from different units and had different experiences but they all faced the same enemy, the same or similar tactical situations and saw their buddies die. Politics meant nothing to these men. Their country called and they went. No questions asked.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the WWII generation was impressive, no doubt. (Although I’d quibble with the idea they all experienced similar situations. I know a guy whose grandfather was in WWII and had a great time. He spent the whole war on an island in the South Pacific, ogling the native girls. The only member of his unit that died was killed when a tree fell on him. I’m sure he and a guy who fought in the Ardennes have VERY different perceptions of WWII, even though they both experienced it directly.)

But anyway, you’d admit that you can gain some understanding of WWII through study, even though you didn’t experience it yourself? I’m just trying to preempt any criticism of my having an opinion about the 50s even though I wasn’t born then. 🙂
edwest2 said:
Oh yeah, my experience was representative. Definitely. Without a doubt.
Click to expand...
There is no way for you to know this. When you say things like, “without a doubt” I can’t help but roll my eyes. Where does this certainty come from? How are you so sure that your experience was the norm and not the exception? I’m glad you had such a lovely childhood (sincerely) but that doesn’t mean the 50s were this magical utopia for everyone. It’s not like alcoholism and spousal abuse were invented in the 80s. It just wasn’t publicized back in the day. I’m sure if you knew the “behind closed doors” lives of everyone in your neighborhood back then, you’d uncover some dysfunction and darkness.

And again, just to be totally clear: I’m not saying the 1950s were, on the whole “bad”. I’m just resisting this idea that everything from the past is pure glorious wonder and everything in the present is unmitigated garbage.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
But I’m already stipulating that. So I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here. :confused:

You’re sort of making my point. Even if you live through a period or experience an event, you still can’t be totally sure that your experience was representative. For example, to take your WWII veteran example. I’m an Iraq War veteran. I have a perspective on the Iraq War that is a little more personal than people who weren’t there. But that doesn’t mean that I know everything about it, or that people who weren’t there can’t also have an informed opinion. My experience was just one little sliver of the whole. I’ve met many people who never deployed who had a better handle on Middle East politics than soldiers who were actually there.
Click to expand...
My point is your reality is most likely not the reality.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
My point is your reality is most likely not the reality.
Click to expand...
But neither is yours. Our perceptions are all shaded in some way. Only God sees with perfect clarity. But we have to sort of play with the hands we’re dealt and do the best we can, otherwise the only possible conversation two people can have is a Big Lebowski “well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.”
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
But neither is yours. Our perceptions are all shaded in some way. Only God sees with perfect clarity. But we have to sort of play with the hands we’re dealt and do the best we can, otherwise the only possible conversation two people can have is a Big Lebowski “well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.”
Click to expand...
Lol. Love that quote!

But there is an objective truth. One of us COULD be correct. So it’s not just opinion.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Lol. Love that quote!

But there is an objective truth. One of us COULD be correct. So it’s not just opinion.
Click to expand...
True, but neither of us likely to hit it exactly in this life, especially if we’re discussing something as broad and multifaceted as a period of history, so we have to do the best we can with our admittedly imperfect perceptions.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
True, but neither of us likely to hit it exactly in this life, especially if we’re discussing something as broad and multifaceted as a period of history, so we have to do the best we can with our admittedly imperfect perceptions.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I’m always closer to the truth.😉
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
Yeah, the WWII generation was impressive, no doubt. (Although I’d quibble with the idea they all experienced similar situations. I know a guy whose grandfather was in WWII and had a great time. He spent the whole war on an island in the South Pacific, ogling the native girls. The only member of his unit that died was killed when a tree fell on him. I’m sure he and a guy who fought in the Ardennes have VERY different perceptions of WWII, even though they both experienced it directly.)

But anyway, you’d admit that you can gain some understanding of WWII through study, even though you didn’t experience it yourself? I’m just trying to preempt any criticism of my having an opinion about the 50s even though I wasn’t born then. 🙂

There is no way for you to know this. When you say things like, “without a doubt” I can’t help but roll my eyes. Where does this certainty come from? How are you so sure that your experience was the norm and not the exception? I’m glad you had such a lovely childhood (sincerely) but that doesn’t mean the 50s were this magical utopia for everyone. It’s not like alcoholism and spousal abuse were invented in the 80s. It just wasn’t publicized back in the day. I’m sure if you knew the “behind closed doors” lives of everyone in your neighborhood back then, you’d uncover some dysfunction and darkness.

And again, just to be totally clear: I’m not saying the 1950s were, on the whole “bad”. I’m just resisting this idea that everything from the past is pure glorious wonder and everything in the present is unmitigated garbage.
Click to expand...
Most “modern” behaviors are constantly marketed. Constantly. And yeah, the '50s were closer to “pure glorious wonder” than not. Today, not so much. In fact, dirty, dirty and more dirty.

amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption-Disguised/dp/1942475217

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Most “modern” behaviors are constantly marketed. Constantly. And yeah, the '50s were closer to “pure glorious wonder” than not. Today, not so much. In fact, dirty, dirty and more dirty.

amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption-Disguised/dp/1942475217

Ed
Click to expand...
Alright, I see I’m not going to talk you out of the romanticized, idealized rapture that was 1950s suburbia. Let me just go on record as saying the extent to which you enshrine a particular era as paradise on Earth is quite over the top and borders on fetishistic.
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Yes. Any student of history needs to recognize that being realativistic regarding different generations and times and governments is a lie. Some were/are better than others.
Click to expand...
I’m not being a relativist, but it’s more accurate in my opinion to say that some were/are better in particular areas. For example, 1950s vs. 2017. Which is “better” for family stability and cohesion? 1950s by a mile. Which is “better” for the rights of racial minorities? 2017 and it ain’t close.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
Alright, I see I’m not going to talk you out of the romanticized, idealized rapture that was 1950s suburbia. Let me just go on record as saying the extent to which you enshrine a particular era as paradise on Earth is quite over the top and borders on fetishistic.

I’m not being a relativist, but it’s more accurate in my opinion to say that some were/are better in particular areas. For example, 1950s vs. 2017. Which is “better” for family stability and cohesion? 1950s by a mile. Which is “better” for the rights of racial minorities? 2017 and it ain’t close.
Click to expand...
Some of these individuals seem to gloss over the deeply entrenched inequality issues that were present throughout the Western world not only for racial minorities (especially blacks if we’re looking at a US context) but also for women… I’m sure many families were happy. Many families are happy in all eras and in all places. That doesn’t eliminate the systematic problems present in all eras.
There was a poster who was idealizing America in the 19th century. He didn’t really have much to say when I pointed out how systematically oppressed we Catholics were.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
Alright, I see I’m not going to talk you out of the romanticized, idealized rapture that was 1950s suburbia. Let me just go on record as saying the extent to which you enshrine a particular era as paradise on Earth is quite over the top and borders on fetishistic.

I’m not being a relativist, but it’s more accurate in my opinion to say that some were/are better in particular areas. For example, 1950s vs. 2017. Which is “better” for family stability and cohesion? 1950s by a mile. Which is “better” for the rights of racial minorities? 2017 and it ain’t close.
Click to expand...
What is it with your fascination of the use of fetish to describe the view you disagree with? It’s a bad use of the concept of connotation portraying someone else as deviant. It’s a invoking word and an indicator of unfair dialogue. Or perhaps you just find it titilating.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
What is it with your fascination of the use of fetish to describe the view you disagree with? It’s a bad use of the concept of connotation portraying someone else as deviant. It’s a invoking word and an indicator of unfair dialogue. Or perhaps you just find it titilating.
Click to expand...
I think it’s an accurate word. Not in the sexual sense, but in the sense of a bizarre fixation.
 
Get over it. Today is not better as far as so-called entertainment, meaning most movies. What is wrong with movies these days? Writers and producers gradually started to make movies showing perverse lifestyles, behaviors, sexual situations, and let’s throw in very graphic violence and bad language. The answer is simple: There were people back then who wanted “creative freedom.” When they got it… Well, just look at the last 10 years, much less the last 40.

The vigilante, the psychopath, the sociopath, the “I kill people because they have zero value.”

The “let’s come up with even more gruesome ways to die” mentality.

In the 1950s, we had the Legion of Decency. Some films fell under the “condemned” label, so, excluding those, we had a lot of very good movies and some B-movies. Oh yes, I’ve gone back to look. Today’s audiences have gradually been poisoned. But there is still a Ratings Board with rules. You want to avoid an R and go for PG-13? They know exactly what needs to go.

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Get over it. Today is not better as far as so-called entertainment, meaning most movies. What is wrong with movies these days? Writers and producers gradually started to make movies showing perverse lifestyles, behaviors, sexual situations, and let’s throw in very graphic violence and bad language. The answer is simple: There were people back then who wanted “creative freedom.” When they got it… Well, just look at the last 10 years, much less the last 40.

The vigilante, the psychopath, the sociopath, the “I kill people because they have zero value.”

The “let’s come up with even more gruesome ways to die” mentality.

In the 1950s, we had the Legion of Decency. Some films fell under the “condemned” label, so, excluding those, we had a lot of very good movies and some B-movies. Oh yes, I’ve gone back to look. Today’s audiences have gradually been poisoned. But there is still a Ratings Board with rules. You want to avoid an R and go for PG-13? They know exactly what needs to go.

Ed
Click to expand...
Lol! Would you say movies are more fetishistic. These days…😃
 
edwest2 said:
Get over it. Today is not better as far as so-called entertainment, meaning most movies. What is wrong with movies these days? Writers and producers gradually started to make movies showing perverse lifestyles, behaviors, sexual situations, and let’s throw in very graphic violence and bad language. The answer is simple: There were people back then who wanted “creative freedom.” When they got it… Well, just look at the last 10 years, much less the last 40.

The vigilante, the psychopath, the sociopath, the “I kill people because they have zero value.”

The “let’s come up with even more gruesome ways to die” mentality.

In the 1950s, we had the Legion of Decency.
Ed
Click to expand...
I totally agree.

The other thing is, there is really only one story, one plot. The best story there is: someone is in danger from evil, and someone else goes to rescue him, at great risk to life and limb. The story of Christ. I see it as the backbone of reality.

The closer your plot adheres to elements of the one story, the better it will be. The farther away, the worse. And when you drop all the elements of it, so that good and evil are indistinguishable, your plot disintegrates.

.
 
twf said:
Some of these individuals seem to gloss over the deeply entrenched inequality issues that were present throughout the Western world not only for racial minorities (especially blacks if we’re looking at a US context) but also for women… I’m sure many families were happy. Many families are happy in all eras and in all places. That doesn’t eliminate the systematic problems present in all eras.
There was a poster who was idealizing America in the 19th century. He didn’t really have much to say when I pointed out how systematically oppressed we Catholics were.
Click to expand...
I mean, in the 1950s black people literally couldn’t sit at the same counter as white people in multiple US states. But at least we had Ward Cleaver showing men how to have dinner with their families while wearing a suit and tie, right? Decline and fall, I tells ya! :rolleyes:
edwest2 said:
Get over it.

Ed
Click to expand...
Friend, I’m doing fine. I’m “over it”. I’m trying to save you from spending the rest of your life as a resentful caricature of the “in my day” stereotype. If you want to spend the rest of your days bah-humbuging in the corner about how men have forgotten the virtues of Brylcreem, knock yourself out. But it sure seems like a sad, lonely way to go through life.
 
IWantGod said:
But that’s how it is right now.
Click to expand...
What? It is legal nowhere in the United States for a restaurant to tell a black person they have to eat around back, or in a specific “black-only” section of the restaurant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top