Alien life form 'is here on Earth'

[StAnastasia]

They would counter that Mt Everest was pushed up during the flood.

There is enough water in the oceans to get to 9000 feet. Now we have found that many oceans more are in the subterranean rocks. Water is not the issue. There is plenty of it.

Buffalo, your logic baffles me. If there “is enough water in the oceans to get to 9000 feet” why isn’t the world now flooded to 9,000 feet?

If the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets melted completely, they would raise seal level by only 200 feet. That leaves 28,835 feet to be inundated before Everest was covered. The mythic flood of Noah never happened.

But a devastating local flood in the Ancient Near East probably did happen, and a man named something like “Noah” may well have been saved on a boat along with his family and animals. The story of their miraculous survival and repopulation of the local region became the stuff of legend, which the Hebrew scribes later wove into Heilsgeshcichte.

I hope this helps you.

StAnastasia

 

[buffalo]

Buffalo, your logic baffles me. If there “is enough water in the oceans to get to 9000 feet” why isn’t the world now flooded to 9,000 feet?

If the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets melted completely, they would raise seal level by only 200 feet. That leaves 28,835 feet to be inundated before Everest was covered. The mythic flood of Noah never happened.

But a devastating local flood in the Ancient Near East probably did happen, and a man named something like “Noah” may well have been saved on a boat along with his family and animals. The story of their miraculous survival and repopulation of the local region became the stuff of legend, which the Hebrew scribes later wove into Heilsgeshcichte.

I hope this helps you.

StAnastasia

If the ocean basins and rifts (or were filled in) did not exist the water would be 9000 feet higher then it is today.

 

[johnpfmcguire]

The mythic flood of Noah never happened.

Wow, have you considered running for deification in the next election?

 

[Pieman333272]

Buffalo, your logic baffles me. If there “is enough water in the oceans to get to 9000 feet” why isn’t the world now flooded to 9,000 feet?

If the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets melted completely, they would raise seal level by only 200 feet. That leaves 28,835 feet to be inundated before Everest was covered. The mythic flood of Noah never happened.

But a devastating local flood in the Ancient Near East probably did happen, and a man named something like “Noah” may well have been saved on a boat along with his family and animals. The story of their miraculous survival and repopulation of the local region became the stuff of legend, which the Hebrew scribes later wove into Heilsgeshcichte.

I hope this helps you.

StAnastasia

It’s actually the Jewish version of Gilgamesh. Interestingly, both are from around the same place. Another hypothesis is that Monogenism is true and at one point there was only one civilization, which was flooded to the point of only one family which ended up repopulating the world, which explains why all cultures have a flood story. I prefer the one you offered myself but have read on both.

 

[cassini]

Buffalo, your logic baffles me. If there “is enough water in the oceans to get to 9000 feet” why isn’t the world now flooded to 9,000 feet?

If the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets melted completely, they would raise seal level by only 200 feet. That leaves 28,835 feet to be inundated before Everest was covered. The mythic flood of Noah never happened.

But a devastating local flood in the Ancient Near East probably did happen, and a man named something like “Noah” may well have been saved on a boat along with his family and animals. The story of their miraculous survival and repopulation of the local region became the stuff of legend, which the Hebrew scribes later wove into Heilsgeshcichte.

I hope this helps you.

StAnastasia

Modernism is the denial of the supernatural.

Cannot remember who said that but here is a typical example of it. The Scriptures state that God organised the Flood of Noe and described how He did it. Devoid of any preternatural (rather than supernatural) (name removed by moderator)ut, Modernists decide these things using human logic alone. Come to think of it, Atheists do the exact same thing.

 

[johnpfmcguire]

Well, in essence, Atheism is the religion whereas Modernism is the philosophy. The best thing about Atheists is they don’t distort Scripture because to even deal with it is against their religion (I guess because God wrote it). Modernism, being a philosophy, adheres to no such dogma.

 

[cassini]

On the one hand it is a pious thing to try to justfy Scripture to those who would discredit it. On the other hand, being above human reason, Scripture needs no justification. At best it may need explanation, but brevity is the soul of wit, intelligentibus pauca, etc., etc., etc.

‘The knowledge proper to this science of theology comes through divine revelation and not through natural reason. Therefore, it has no concern to prove principles of other sciences, but only to judge them. Whatever is found in other sciences contrary to any truth of this science of theology must be condemned as false.’ — (ST, I, Q 1, a 6, ad 2).

 

[PAboy57]

life is but a blink of the eye. we’ll all know soon enough.

interesting posts. thanks

 

[StAnastasia]

If the ocean basins and rifts (or were filled in) did not exist the water would be 9000 feet higher then it is today.

The ocean basins have not been filled in, at least not for the last 750 million years. I’m sure that antedates “Noah’s” lifetime.

 

[johnpfmcguire]

The ocean basins have not been filled in, at least not for the last 750 million years. I’m sure that antedates “Noah’s” lifetime.

Based solely on, erm, carbon dating (and heresy) may we safely assume?

 

[StAnastasia]

Cannot remember who said that but here is a typical example of it. The Scriptures state that God organised the Flood of Noe and described how He did it. Devoid of any preternatural (rather than supernatural) (name removed by moderator)ut, Modernists decide these things using human logic alone. Come to think of it, Atheists do the exact same thing.

Cassini, if you can convince the Catholic Church – including its pope, cardinal, bishop and priests – that the physics, geology, chemistry, and biology of the last 400 years is all hokum, then you might get them to consider your literal interpretation of the “Noah’s Flood” myth. It’s not going to happen until you jettison science.

Good luck with your project!

 

[StAnastasia]

It’s actually the Jewish version of Gilgamesh. Interestingly, both are from around the same place. Another hypothesis is that Monogenism is true and at one point there was only one civilization, which was flooded to the point of only one family which ended up repopulating the world, which explains why all cultures have a flood story. I prefer the one you offered myself but have read on both.

Pieman, on your second hypothesis, how would you account for Genesis 7:19 - “The waters rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered”?

Do you read this to mean “all the high mountains in the local vicinity”? Or do you read it to be “all the high mountains on the earth”? If the latter, you have the insurmountable hydrological problem of there being only 200 feet of water locked up in polar ice. That still leaves 28,935 feet of water to account for.

 

[johnpfmcguire]

Cassini, if you can convince the Catholic Church – including its pope, cardinal, bishop and priests – that the physics, geology, chemistry, and biology of the last 400 years is all hokum, then you might get them to consider your literal interpretation of the “Noah’s Flood” myth. It’s not going to happen until you jettison science.

Good luck with your project!

Nice cheap-shot. Yeah, way to jump from extreme to extreme, putting words in Cassini’s mouth in order to make him sound ridiculous and alone in the Church in defering the lowly old Divine Theologian! Masterful deceptiveness! (Manifestly we hit a nerve when we brought up those personal facts about Newton!) If you’ll permit me the ovservation, StAnastasia, pray devoutly to your patroness because Cassini is certainly not the one here who is alone and delusional, and you have every reason to be mortified at yourself for such shameless libel against Cassini and against the Spirit of Truth. Even if no one in the Catholic Church agreed with Cassini (and lowly old Saint Thomas Aqunias and your humble servant) he’d still be right. “God and I are a majority.” (No idea who said that, but you get the idea.) This I can say as a lion roars: you have not one leg to stand on, and you are only digging yourself deeper and deeper. All you say has as more to do with the price of tea in China than with science, and your compulsive lying has found you out.

 

[Pieman333272]

Pieman, on your second hypothesis, how would you account for Genesis 7:19 - “The waters rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered”?

Do you read this to mean “all the high mountains in the local vicinity”? Or do you read it to be “all the high mountains on the earth”? If the latter, you have the insurmountable hydrological problem of there being only 200 feet of water locked up in polar ice. That still leaves 28,935 feet of water to account for.

The idea of the first civilization being flooded is that only the tallest local hills needed to be flooded, not the whole world’s tallest mountain. Unless they lived near the Himalayas, but there is no evidence for a prehistoric colony there that goes back further than one already discovered.

 

[StAnastasia]

It’s actually the Jewish version of Gilgamesh. Interestingly, both are from around the same place.

Indeed. What is intriguing is the theological use to which the Hebrew authors put the Mesopotamian story they had at their disposal. About flood myths,

"A flood myth or deluge myth is a mythical story of a great flood sent by a deity or deities to destroy civilization as an act of divine retribution. It is a theme widespread among many cultures, though it is perhaps best known in modern times through the biblical and quranic account of Noah’s Ark, the Hindu puranic story of Manu, through Deucalion in Greek mythology or Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Parallels are often drawn between the flood waters of these myths and the primeval waters found in some creation myths since the flood waters are seen to cleanse humanity in preparation for rebirth. Most flood myths also contain a culture hero who strives to ensure this rebirth."

 

[StAnastasia]

The idea of the first civilization being flooded is that only the tallest local hills needed to be flooded, not the whole world’s tallest mountain. Unless they lived near the Himalayas, but there is no evidence for a prehistoric colony there that goes back further than one already discovered.

Except that it says “all the high mountains under the entire heavens.”

And the ancient near east was not necessarily the first civilization.

 

[Pieman333272]

Except that it says “all the high mountains under the entire heavens.”

They didn’t know about the Himalayas.

And many OT scholars who support the local flood note that the word used for mountains is interchangeable with hills.

And the ancient near east was not necessarily the first civilization.

I know it wasn’t. I didn’t say it was. All that had to happen was that the decedents reached the Middle East by a few centuries before the time of Abraham.

 

[johnpfmcguire]

A wise man once told me, “What a tangled web we weave when first we learn to deceive.” I now behold what he was describing.

 

[StAnastasia]

They didn’t know about the Himalayas.

True.

And many OT scholars who support the local flood note that the word used for mountains is interchangeable with hills.

What is the Hebrew word? I did Greek, not Hebrew, in my theological college.

All that had to happen was that the decedents reached the Middle East by a few centuries before the time of Abraham.

Unless they were already in the Middle East.

By the way, on a literalist reading of the flood myth, how did Noah get the marsupials dropped off in Australia, and then sail back to the Middle East to get the Ark to settle on Mt. Ararat (16,854 ft) which is higher than any point in Australia?

StAnastasia

 

[Pieman333272]

True.

What is the Hebrew word? I did Greek, not Hebrew, in my theological college.

I don’t know Hebrew except some words I picked up from reading books. The word is “Har”. It can be translated as either and means either.

Unless they were already in the Middle East.

Right, but I was responding to your objection that it didn’t have to be in the Middle East. I first heard this theory in Ian Wilson’s book Before the Flood, where he suggests it comes from an ancient city in Turkey, which he claims is the first post-Ice Age town. I found a similar version online, not specifying a civilization but rather suggesting it was prior to the origin of cities. I don’t subscribe to this hypothesis, but I find it interesting reading. The one I suggested is merely the general frame, not the hypothesis itself, which is usually more focused.

By the way, on a literalist reading of the flood myth, how did Noah get the marsupials dropped off in Australia, and then sail back to the Middle East to get the Ark to settle on Mt. Ararat (16,854 ft) which is higher than any point in Australia?

I’m not a literalist, but they could argue it happened on Pangaea or Gondwana. Or that God made them after the Flood or teleported them there.