Alienation in Tridentine Mass Community

[Elizabeth502]

You can find unfriendly people anywhere; including EF and OF parishes. My experience is that most folks are really pretty shy so they put up a defensive front. Same can be found in any organization or place where the public congregates.

I don’t worry about other people when at church. That’s not what I’m there for.

Precisely. Although myself, I would probably use the word “private” instead of “shy.” Personally, although I’m rather expansive in person, I am not so at Mass or even before Mass. This is not a social occasion. I’m purposeful about being there and nothing is required of me regarding “making friends,” other than naturally to return a pleasant expression if someone makes eye contact with me.

There’s an amazing man at the weekday EF Masses near me. He has some kind of nerve disease, and I’m convinced he must be some kind of a saint. He radiates joy but has difficulty doing much of anything with his body and face. When I see him several pews behind me I extend a huge smile and he returns that with a stunningly grateful & radiant smile. Really, no words are necessary.

Now, I could see a problem if there were a post-Mass gathering in the hall or something, and many people or all people were cold, particularly after they were approached. (I never expect others to approach me if I am new to a group; the more socially “advanced,” shall we say, will do so. But if I want to make friends at any social gathering, nothing stops me from taking initiative myself.)

My TLM parish is filled with introverts, and that is not surprising either.

 

[Ceil-1]

If you are so uncomfortable,distressed, unappreciated for the tremendous sacrifices that you are making on their behalf to even be there and embarrased to top it off don’t go.

Simple. Solves the problem quickly and easily and it doesn’t waste a lot of time. And if these people are as tremendously anti social as you have so indignitly pointed out, you won’t even be missed. Of course you could just hang around and make their lifes even more miserable if you want to.

So very, VERY typical of the attitude of those who attend the Latin Mass (only). Attending Mass and receiving the Lord in His Body, Blood Soul and Divinity is designed to make us more loving, and, this “exclusive club” yields very opposite results.

Go figure.

If you are willing to drive an hour, I would “shop around” and find a good parish that does the Mass reverently, with friendly people (it IS all about who the pastor is), and make the most out of that.

The form of the Mass is to edify us, and, the mean-sprirtiedness and scrupulosity of so many attracted to the EF ruin it for the rest of us. (And then they have the audacity to blame YOU for not getting good vibes. That has to be the epitome of spiritual pride and blindness, but, you will never convince them of it. All you can do is pray for them, which is more than they will do for you).

 

[bben15]

I find that particularly rude. We should be nice to people who share our love of the 1962 Missal. If there is someone who is making mistakes during the Mass, such as reciting the altar server’s responses, correct them and do not look down upon them. No one should have to go through a hazing period just to witness a 1,500 year old Mass.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

I haven’t had the same experience at any TLM so far, but I can see why that might be. The TLM is probably more likely to attract liturgical (or otherwise) snobs and more likely to attract introverts. Likely, what yoh experienced is an example of the second case. It is is probable that they were not ignoring you out of malice, but rather out of shyness and reservation. In any case, that’s what you should assume.

I have found as a general rule that Catholic parishes are most often more reserved than Evangelical communities, but it’s not as if that is an unkown secret.

 

[Brendan_64]

Cultures build up in different parishes, I’ve attended several OF parishes, some are a bit ‘cold’, but some (like my current parish) are truly amazing. Every single person who walks through the door is greeted by really nice greeters and others. If you’re a new person you’ll be lucky if you could pass through the church porch without being stooped by several people and made welcome. then from that a culture of welcome builds up throughout the church community. I suppose if you were an introvert you might find it a bit over-powering, but when I first went into that church I thought, “Wow, I’m being made to feel like I’m part of a family and these people don’t even know me”. I’m sure there are also EF parishes like that, but as I’ve only been to a TLM twice I can’t really comment on that.

 

[aTraditionalist]

anonymous1995:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aTraditionalist

Where is this occurring exactly? Outside, parking lot, in the chapel?

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

It happened before Mass in the Church.

Another sidetrack story: The choir practised singing Missa Regia in preparation for next week’s funeral Mass. Although I was not a choir singer, I saw him holding a stack of scores so I thought I could get one. In deep shock after hearing my polite inquiry, he averted and ran away. It was such an awkward moment when the congregation behind me stared at me and I felt super embarrassed.

In another Sunday Mass, the choir director told the laity that there was insufficient time to practise singing the Eucharistic Hymn. Some old men yelled,’ Then we better not sing it!’ Which convulsed me with astonishment. Adoro Te Devote is such a well-known hymn that I don’t think there will be problem for those ‘traditional’ old Catholics.

From time to time these incidents happened. Which quivered my courage to attend TLM. As a young Catholic who very much appreciate the grandeur and solemnity of the TLM. These unpleasant experiences annihilate some of my motivation to get up early and travel for an hour to TLM. I learn all the Latin responses well, suit up or dress very modestly every time and read chant notations or polyphonic music sheets well. I can follow the whole Mass well. And then I am regarded an ‘alien’.

I only ask because as a rule their no talking in the church out of respect for the divine presence. As another rule, people can be just plain strange sometimes.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[aTraditionalist]

Ceil-1:

So very, VERY typical of the attitude of those who attend the Latin Mass (only). Attending Mass and receiving the Lord in His Body, Blood Soul and Divinity is designed to make us more loving, and, this “exclusive club” yields very opposite results.

Go figure.

If you are willing to drive an hour, I would “shop around” and find a good parish that does the Mass reverently, with friendly people (it IS all about who the pastor is), and make the most out of that.

The form of the Mass is to edify us, and, the mean-sprirtiedness and scrupulosity of so many attracted to the EF ruin it for the rest of us. (And then they have the audacity to blame YOU for not getting good vibes. That has to be the epitome of spiritual pride and blindness, but, you will never convince them of it. All you can do is pray for them, which is more than they will do for you).

So very typical of an OF vs EF convo.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Cartesian]

It happened before Mass in the Church.

Another sidetrack story: The choir practised singing Missa Regia in preparation for next week’s funeral Mass. Although I was not a choir singer, I saw him holding a stack of scores so I thought I could get one. In deep shock after hearing my polite inquiry, he averted and ran away. It was such an awkward moment when the congregation behind me stared at me and I felt super embarrassed.

In another Sunday Mass, the choir director told the laity that there was insufficient time to practise singing the Eucharistic Hymn. Some old men yelled,’ Then we better not sing it!’ Which convulsed me with astonishment. Adoro Te Devote is such a well-known hymn that I don’t think there will be problem for those ‘traditional’ old Catholics.

From time to time these incidents happened. Which quivered my courage to attend TLM. As a young Catholic who very much appreciate the grandeur and solemnity of the TLM. These unpleasant experiences annihilate some of my motivation to get up early and travel for an hour to TLM. I learn all the Latin responses well, suit up or dress very modestly every time and read chant notations or polyphonic music sheets well. I can follow the whole Mass well. And then I am regarded an ‘alien’.

Oh my. I have been in parishes in foreign countries, whose language I don’t speak, but I got better reception, even with the language barrier.

I was thinking, is that your birth year in your nick name? i.e. are you 18 years old? Is it possible that they just think you are too young? I kind of smell an age discrimination rather than the form of the mass, mainly if you also look that young.

If you are indeed 18, are they any other people of your age? If positive, I would start by looking for those younger folks which certainly would be more welcoming. If not, I second advice from other poster who said you would look for the more friendly person and kindly introduce yourself maybe after mass. My open line would be like considering myself a kind of dummie, but deeply interested in TLM (which I am), and ask to have guidance. This would be a way to start a constant contact with this group of “aliens”.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The TLM is probably more likely to attract liturgical (or otherwise) snobs

Likely not a very charitable assumption, maybe?

 

[paperwight66]

I thought the Tridentine Mass dated from the Council of Trent, hence the name? In which case, only just about 500 years old, not 1,500.

 

[bben15]

I thought the Tridentine Mass dated from the Council of Trent, hence the name? In which case, only just over 500 years old, not 1,500.

Yes, but the Council of Trent codified a Mass that had already been in use for 1,500 years. With a few minor changes over the years, it was the exact same Mass used in the Roman Rite.

 

[ProVobis]

I think many people, no matter where you go, act this way. I find this same attitude in many N.O. parishes. Some people have clicks, most remember them from high school.

This is especially true in multi-lingual parishes. Generally I find much more friendliness in Hispanic communities and I don’t speak Spanish.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

Likely not a very charitable assumption, maybe?

Only because they have to go more out of their way to get access to it. I’m not suggesting there is anything about the mass that encourages snobbery. You know the types that I’m talking about. One of my friends was once chewed out by someone for referring to the mass as a “service.”

Of course, my experience has been that TLM attenders on average are at least as or more friendly than Catholics on average, and you find snobs attending the NO too. I wasn’t intending to describe a widespread trend, just the OP’s particular situation.

 

[TrueLight]

One of the things that was discouraging for me when I first started attending Mass, was how unfriendly Catholics appeared to me in general.

It just so happened that I found a Latin Mass community that has a coffee hour which helped me a lot in my transition.

So I don’t think it’s a Latin Mass thing - maybe the culture of the particular parish you attend.

 

[ProVobis]

I thought the Tridentine Mass dated from the Council of Trent, hence the name? In which case, only just about 500 years old, not 1,500.

Here’s a page from a 750 AD Missal. It should be quite familiar to someone who follows the EF.

 

[TimothyH]

Well my young friend, the appropriate response is so basic and simple that I fail to see why you are even on this forum.

If you are so uncomfortable,distressed, unappreciated for the tremendous sacrifices that you are making on their behalf to even be there and embarrased to top it off don’t go.

Simple. Solves the problem quickly and easily and it doesn’t waste a lot of time. And if these people are as tremendously anti social as you have so indignitly pointed out, you won’t even be missed. Of course you could just hang around and make their lifes even more miserable if you want to.

As an aside, I am one of those, how did you say it, oh yes ‘traditional’ old Catholics, and I don’t know the entire hymn Adoro te devote and doubt I could sing it at all. One reason I was never in the choir.

Best wishes in whatever it is that you are really looking for.

Does anyone see the irony here?

-Tim-

 

[triumphguy]

I’ll repeat my initial advice: find the friendliest person you can, introduce yourself and ask them to introduce you to others.

Breaking into a new community can be scary. Get some help on your side. Be yourself. Ignore anyone ignorant and rude.

I’m sure that if you are young then they will be secretly overjoyed to welcome you into their parish.

 

[Mike30]

Does anyone see the irony here?

-Tim-

I was merely pointi g out that if our young friend is that uncomfortable then he can easily go to another Parish. There is absolutly no reason to attend a Mass where you are as miserable as he seems.

As an aside I truly believe the entire post is nothing more than an attempt to portray those who attend the Extrordinary Form as being unfriendly and elitist.

That’s all.

 

[Pa_Newman]

Some times people are like that-I assume preoccupied.Some elderly just don’t hear all that well.I work as a gardener at a college and greet everyone I see while working. Some look at me and just walk past, others are friendly. Some just take time to warm up and be friendly. With some after a long while I will finally get a return greeting, some I have gotten to know quite well who in the beginning would hardly even look at me Some all of them a sudden become friendly! My advice keep being friendly and try not to take it personally.I too enjoy the Traditional Mass.Take care.

 

[triumphguy]

I was merely pointi g out that if our young friend is that uncomfortable then he can easily go to another Parish. There is absolutly no reason to attend a Mass where you are as miserable as he seems.

As an aside I truly believe the entire post is nothing more than an attempt to portray those who attend the Extrordinary Form as being unfriendly and elitist.

That’s all.

If he’s our “young friend” then perhaps we should be friendlier?

Or is “our young friend” just a patronizing label?

Perhaps he (she?) has been scared away?