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pablope
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I just have one issue here…about Catholics…are you referring to individual catholics?
The Catholic Church, not individuals, to my knowledge, has not believed or participated in any end time predicting activity. So I will take issue with you including catholics here. As I stated, you should clarify your post about the participation of catholics.
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solayan
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The problem with the Eostre connection is that it only exists in two languages: English and German.
Since the celebration of Easter and the calculation of its date predate both, only real connection between the holiday and the pagan goddess is linguistic, and limited to people who speak those languages.
In the Romance languages the name of the holiday derives from the word for Passover (Latin - Pascha, French - Paques, Italian - Pasqua) and in the most of the Slavic languages the word for Easter means Great Day or Great Night (Ukrainian - Великдень Velykden, Polish - Wielkanoc).
There’s a more complete list of names for Easter here: infostarbase.com/holidays/easter/easter1.php
or on good old Wikipedia here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter#Etymology
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Robert_in_SD
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It should also be noted that neither of these languages is the official language of the Catholic Church. I believe Latin is the official language of the Church. But I defer to those with greater knowledge on the subject. The Latin term is Pascha, or Festa Paschalia to refer to the entire octave.
Peace,
Robert
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JHow
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The thread was here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=550090&highlight=resurrection+sunday&page=3
The “Pagan Easter” theory is pretty much an argument that is only plausible (if you ignore the meaning and symbolism of the word “East”) for English.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=550090&highlight=resurrection+sunday&page=3
The “Pagan Easter” theory is pretty much an argument that is only plausible (if you ignore the meaning and symbolism of the word “East”) for English.
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BTTG
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**Response - My apologize, I should have made myself more clear. Many people who belonged to the catholic church believed that Jesus was coming in 1844.
written with love**
written with love**
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SteveVH
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Even this is a claim for which I doubt you have any evidence. How does anyone know what individual Catholics were thinking? They certainly didn’t hear this from the pulpit.
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BTTG
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Mr. Miller was wrong on his interpretation that Christ was to come in 1844. Thousands that believed him were wrong. Why do so many people look upon this man , or judge this man, so negatively. Let us look in the mirror at ourselves, are we ever wrong? Look at the apostles, even Peter, they walked and talked with Christ and still believed that Christ was going to set up his earthly kingdom in that day. Even when Christ was resurrected and talked to the disciples, they thought He had risen to establish His earthly kingdom. Do we think negatively upon the apostles for not understanding.
There is only one person that was perfect, now and forever…Jesus Christ.
written with love
There is only one person that was perfect, now and forever…Jesus Christ.
written with love
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benidict
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Fair enough my friend. Would it be possible for you to Produce writings by said Catholics? Were any in leadership positions at the time? Are there any well known ones? There were a few Methodist too Im sure, and some Baptist, and Any one else who was listening ot Miller. Would this be a fair assessment?
Perhaps a FEW Catholics latched onto this scheme. but Many Cathlolics would have caught the ear of the Pope, and He would have had something to say about it. Would this be fair to say?
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BTTG
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**Response - Hey, I pray that all is well with you. Nice to hear from you. This is the kind of post I don’t mind responding to… written with honest questions and not with an attitude. Your statements above are a fair assessment.Fair enough my friend. Would it be possible for you to Produce writings by said Catholics? Were any in leadership positions at the time? Are there any well known ones? There were a few Methodist too Im sure, and some Baptist, and Any one else who was listening ot Miller. Would this be a fair assessment?
Not directed to you Benedict, but to others who read this thread. I was never implying that; most, high ranking officials of the Catholic Church left the Catholic faith and transfered their membership to the Millwright movement. I clarify that there were people from many different denominations that believed Miller in 1844. These people did not necessarily leave their denomination. For example, I have talked with many Catholic people who do not believe it is necessary to confess their sins to a priest, yet they still attend the Catholic Church and believe in the other doctrines of the church.
This will be my last post on the topic of Mr. Miller.
written with love**
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PJM
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Before joining in the discussion a couple of necessary clarifications:
Luther started out protesting, quite correctly, “selling of Indulgences“, to raise funds for a new Church building. This practice has LONG been reprobated. Luther’s discussion grew increasingly more personal and hostile; and BOTH sides were to blame. Luther had a sufficiently well and properly informed conscience and there is no excuse for his abandonment of the CC.
As for the “Sabbath” verses Sunday Practice. This is an issue of “Church practice” meaning that it COULD be changed. As our Faith-practices stem from Jewish Tradition; “SABBATH” began the evening Before the day of…. So the Church is within both biblical and licit action, in permitting such to be valid.
As for Peter: Mt. 16: 15-19 “He [Jesus] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. ***I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” ***
**Acts.20: 28 “**Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.”
**Matt.10: 2 **“The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother;”
**Luke 22: 31-32 **[Jesus Speaking to Peter] "Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers."
Romans 13: 2 “Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
John 20:19-21 “On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
NOTICE the Words of Jesus: “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." THAT MEANS that Peter and the Apostles are sent with BOTH the Power and The Authority of Jesus Himself!
Jn. 14: 16-17 [Jesus speaking] “And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, [Holy Spirit of God] to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
Jn. 17: 17-19 “Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.** As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world**. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth”
Again Jesus transfers His Own Powers and Authority to Peter and the Apostles. AND gives Himself Personally as the warranty of Their Teaching Truths.
John.21: 15-17 “When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” A second time he said to him, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.”
Their is insufficient room to address all of the issues you raise. PM me if you desire more infomation,
God Bless,
Pat
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benidict
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PM me my friend. lets catch up. Peace.
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Coimbe
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The SDA’s that I know are very devoted to what they call “Vespers.” Which could be what they are doing on Wednesdays - it is in the evening? Most of the SDA’s that I know who went to a SDA school had mandatory attendance of “vespers” every evening. For me, it seemed in direct contradiction of their criticism of “extra-biblical” elements of Catholicism. Also, I was surprised that no SDA’s seemed to connect the fact that “vespers” is a medieval Catholic monastic tradition that they have adopted. I would have thought that upholding any such Catholic practice would have been contrary to their most basic beliefs since the monastic hours of prayer are not in the bible.
My SDA friends quote Ellen White and Kellogg (in terms of food and lifestyle) far more than the bible. Perhaps you can shed some light on the contributions of this individuals in context with the religion as a whole? Thanks.
My SDA friends quote Ellen White and Kellogg (in terms of food and lifestyle) far more than the bible. Perhaps you can shed some light on the contributions of this individuals in context with the religion as a whole? Thanks.
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benidict
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I have been waiting for over 2 years, an answer from Adventist. If Adventism is the Church that Christ founded. How come we can find no trace of their unique doctrines, prior to the 1800’s? None. There are no Teachings of their more controversial doctrines, before the 1800’s far as I can tell. If an Adventist can Show me one pastor, theologian, Church father, anyone of note, who espoused their Doctrines, I will convert immediately. Prove it to me. 
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barboza21
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Would you agree though that his followers ended up being a big part of the new adventist religion?
Interesting, can you state which five formed the SDA?
Also, if you can, I’d like to know from what denominations were the founders of the SDA…
Thanks
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barboza21
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barboza21
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What always comes to mind is this: The bible talks about a church. Meaning: there was a church way back then. Which church is that??I have been waiting for over 2 years, an answer from Adventist. If Adventism is the Church that Christ founded. How come we can find no trace of their unique doctrines, prior to the 1800’s? None. There are no Teachings of their more controversial doctrines, before the 1800’s far as I can tell. If an Adventist can Show me one pastor, theologian, Church father, anyone of note, who espoused their Doctrines, I will convert immediately. Prove it to me.
Hmm… the CC has been around since then, maybe that’s the one?
Wait, humans say it has been corrupted.
YET Jesus said and hell will not prevail agaisnt it. as well as I will be with you until the end.
I wish we could all do the simple math.
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barboza21
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Acts 8:26-35
I forgot the 8 in the last post to BTTG
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PJM
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Perhaps my friend; your more RIGHT than you realize?
From the opening words of Gensesi to the final period in Revelations; thier is NOT A SINGLE word of God or His messengers about desiring more than one JUST One Church; One Faith [set of beliefs] and One God [Triune] based on One New Covenant in Christ Own Blood. ONLY ONE
**Phil.2: 2 ** “complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.”
**Eph. 4: 1-7 **“I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift."
Eph. 2: 18-22 “ for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,[SINGULAR!] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;
**John.10: 16 **“And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”
**John 17:20-23 **"I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me. “
Isn’t that interestering
While the bible speaks of temples [plural faiths], and synagogue
The Church has NEVER BEEN CORRUPTED! Those in Her have; but Not Christ Church. An IMPOSSIBILITY. Jn. 14:16-17 and John 17:15-19 and Jn. 20: 19-21 confirm this.
God’s Love and Blessings,
Pat
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