All about Seventh Day Adventists and Catholics

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History documents this, Annie.

Is there any other church out there at that time that had bishops and popes that claims it decided what books should go into the Bible and what ones should be omitted?
Ok. So history documents this. Can you please give me ~specifics~ to back your statement up? Not looking for trouble or challenges - just want to see what you (and others) consider proof that the Catholic Church wrote and assembled the Bible.
THanks -
Annie
 
Ok. So history documents this. Can you please give me ~specifics~ to back your statement up? Not looking for trouble or challenges - just want to see what you (and others) consider proof that the Catholic Church wrote and assembled the Bible.
THanks -
Annie
Ever heard of the Council of Rome, the Council of Hippo, the Council of Carthage or the Council of Trent? I think you will find that they are distinctly, without question, Catholic Councils and that at these councils the canon of Sacred Scripture was determined.

As far as who wrote the New Testament, Christ started one Church (not many churches) to which all “Christians” at that time belonged. The Catholic Church is the only Church on the planet that can demonstrate a direct line of succession back to Peter, and therefore back to Christ. So the New Testament writers were, without question, Catholic. The Bible is a Catholic document, wrtitten and assembled by Catholics. The early Protestants (Luther and company) admitted that if it were not for the Catholic Church the world would not have the Bible. That was one point against which they did not protest.
 
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Protector:
You have made an assumption based on scanty information Pythons. My defense of EGW was not as support for a fellow SDA, and I am not any "denomination of Adventist ", I am a plain old fashioned Christian, albeit with an imperfect “understanding of what God is” according to you
When you say “fellow SDA” that would generally mean that you are SDA…
…Do you observe the Gregorian Saturday as a Sabbath to the Lord?
…Do you believe that the dead “don’t know anything”?
…Do you believe that Michael the archangel was Christ’s name prior to the Incarnation?

Your answers would help me out here Protector and given that BTTG felt you were doing such a good job he opted out of the discussion…
…I would like to know in what context you said “fellow SDA”.
 
You have made an assumption based on scanty information Pythons. My defense of EGW was not as support for a fellow SDA, and I am not any "denomination of Adventist ", I am a plain old fashioned Christian
Wouldn’t that make you a Catholic? Looking at Christian history, I think it would be more accurate that you be referred to as a “new fashioned” Christian. Just saying… 🙂
 
Ok. So history documents this. Can you please give me ~specifics~ to back your statement up? Not looking for trouble or challenges - just want to see what you (and others) consider proof that the Catholic Church wrote and assembled the Bible.
THanks -
Annie
We may be getting off topic…so you may want to start your own thread on this.

There was only one church in existence for the first 1500 years…the Catholic Church. All the writers were Catholics. Through it’s action, the CC compiled the books of the Bible.

See Council of Nicea (AD 325) and Synod of Hippo and Council of Carthage.

I would like you to look for this…Provice me the chapter and verse in the Bible were St. Mark claims authorship of the Gospel of Mark? (minus the table of contents and title-these were put in by the publisher)
 
Ok. So history documents this. Can you please give me ~specifics~ to back your statement up? Not looking for trouble or challenges - just want to see what you (and others) consider proof that the Catholic Church wrote and assembled the Bible.
THanks -
Annie
I would be happy to–but I’d like to ask you one question first.

Who is it that you believe promulgated the canon of the Scriptures to the whole world?
 
I would be happy to–but I’d like to ask you one question first.

Who is it that you believe promulgated the canon of the Scriptures to the whole world?
I don’t know. That is why I am asking the questions. It is a topic I never really thought about…I started asking the questions when another poster made the statement that “the Catholic Church wrote and assembled the Bible”.

Annie
 
I don’t know. That is why I am asking the questions. It is a topic I never really thought about…I started asking the questions when another poster made the statement that “the Catholic Church wrote and assembled the Bible”.

Annie
Annie, its a great question to ask and one which many non-Catholics (and even some Catholics, for that matter) ever really think about. I applaud you for asking the question. The answer, no matter how you cut it, is the Catholic Church. No one else even makes the claim because it would be indefensible.

God bless.
 
I don’t know. That is why I am asking the questions. It is a topic I never really thought about…I started asking the questions when another poster made the statement that “the Catholic Church wrote and assembled the Bible”.

Annie
I appreciate your honesty, Annie. It does seem that most people just take for granted that the Bible just appeared.

In 393 AD, Pope Damasus convenes a council in Rome for the purpose of determining once and for all, first of all, whether there is in fact a New Testament, and if so, of what does it consist? This council produces the list of 27 books that we are all so familiar with today. As a check, two other councils are convened - one in Hippo under the leadership of Augustine, and the other in Carthage, and given the same mission. These two councils both come up with the same list of 27 books as the council of Rome. Pope Damasus having died in the mean time, Pope Innocent I examines the results of these three councils and assures himself that their research was sound - once he has completed this work, he infallibly proclaims to the whole Church that this particular list of 27 books is, in fact, the New Testament. He sets St. Jerome and his team to the task of gathering these 27 books together, translating them into Latin, and placing them into a single codex for handy use at Mass in the churches.

Once this task was completed, the job of copying and distributing it began. At first, this job was done entirely by hand, and it could take a whole year to complete just one Book of the Gospels, but as time went on, and more copies became available, more and more copyists went to work, and the number of Bibles in the world began to double every two years, until the invention of the printing press in the 1400s, which increased the speed of production by orders of magnitude, until today, Bibles are cheap enough for nearly every human being on the planet to have one. originally posted by jmcrae here.

Here’s a secular source which documents the development of the canon of Scripture.
 
Y’now St. Peter wrote letters, which have been faithfully maintained and published in the New Testament.

St. Paul likewise, St Matthew, St John, St Luke, St Jude

Who copied their letters, preserved them generation after generation of the catholic church, faithful monks in scriptoriums copying the greek and latin Scriptures.

How isn’t the New Testament Catholic?

The mortal remains of St. Peter and St. Paul are beneath the Vatican!!!
**Response - If I am understanding this discussion correctly, Catholics believe they wrote the NT as per the authors of Matthew, Mark, Luke, Peter, etc. I believe the aforementioned were “Christians”, followers of Christ and were of the “church” of Christ. Yes, you could also say they belonged to the “catholic church”, regarding the Greek word for “Catholic” as “universal”. In saying that, Paul, Matthew, etc., I believe, did not belong to the “Catholic church” as we know it today. They belonged to the universal church, the one church, the Christian church, who were in acceptance to the whole work of Christ, in which Christ is the head of the church then and now.

Therefore, Peter, Paul, John, etc,. were Christians and not of the Catholic denomination at their time.

written with love.**
 
I appreciate your honesty, Annie. It does seem that most people just take for granted that the Bible just appeared.

In 393 AD, Pope Damasus convenes a council in Rome for the purpose of determining once and for all, first of all, whether there is in fact a New Testament, and if so, of what does it consist? This council produces the list of 27 books that we are all so familiar with today. As a check, two other councils are convened - one in Hippo under the leadership of Augustine, and the other in Carthage, and given the same mission. These two councils both come up with the same list of 27 books as the council of Rome. Pope Damasus having died in the mean time, Pope Innocent I examines the results of these three councils and assures himself that their research was sound - once he has completed this work, he infallibly proclaims to the whole Church that this particular list of 27 books is, in fact, the New Testament. He sets St. Jerome and his team to the task of gathering these 27 books together, translating them into Latin, and placing them into a single codex for handy use at Mass in the churches.

Once this task was completed, the job of copying and distributing it began. At first, this job was done entirely by hand, and it could take a whole year to complete just one Book of the Gospels, but as time went on, and more copies became available, more and more copyists went to work, and the number of Bibles in the world began to double every two years, until the invention of the printing press in the 1400s, which increased the speed of production by orders of magnitude, until today, Bibles are cheap enough for nearly every human being on the planet to have one. originally posted by jmcrae here.

Here’s a secular source which documents the development of the canon of Scripture.
**Two questions:

I would like some references to these findings.

Have you researched the history on Pope Damasus ?

written with love **
 
The better understanding is that the apostles were the actual witnesses to Jesus Christ, His Majesty…when reading and pondering over the simple but most profound language of St. Peter in his second letter.

The earliest church made it its most profound mission to insure that the testimony of Jesus Christ would be passed on to subsequent generations, so that by 100 AD, the manner of governing, worship were established throughout the ancient Christian world at that time.

It took the Church 200 years to finally accept the Book of Hebrews as inspired for public revelation, as well as alot of time determining if indeed the Gospel of St. John was written by him.

I don’t think people today consider how profound it was for earliest believers to have integrity of faith, and the concern it would be passed on to future generations.

The Church is the body of many people; it is not the movement of one or two people. Jesus Christ and His apostles are the foundation of the Church. Reading what happens at a Mass around 155 AD is very similar in tone, respect, and vision as it was then.

The books of the Bible that are acknowledged by the Church as divinely inspired also acknowledge the faith tradition of the Jewish faith, and incorporate it into the Bible as we know it. The Council of Trent affirmed that the Books the Catholic Church draws on in the Bible are indeed divinely inspired and meant for public revelation.
 
certain people love to accuse. And the SDA cult is born.

But prior to the SDA cult there where people that believed in a flat earth(fixed week Sabbath). Amazes me that people still believe in this ****.

If one man believes its a delusion. If thousands believe its a religion.
 
I hope my cutting and pasting of the following comments by Joe Crews don’t get me banned from this site. This is a very important topic and needs to be examined.

The Bible teaches that Christ was “manifest in the flesh” in order to accomplish certain things for the redemption of the human race. First of all, He would have to live a life of perfect obedience to redeem man’s failure. Secondly, He would need to assume man’s guilt for breaking the law and suffer the penalty of death demanded by the law. Those two things—His atoning death and perfect obedience—could then be credited to all who would accept Jesus as their divine Substitute. Through faith, the sinner could be counted as having paid the penalty of death and of living a life of perfect obedience. That experience, called justification by faith, is the center of all Protestant teaching about salvation. According to this beautiful Bible doctrine, the repentant sinner now stands before God as though he himself has satisfied the penalty. At the same time, his past record of failure and disobedience is covered by the imputed merits of Christ’s perfect obedience, so that he can be counted as justified—as though he had never sinned.
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Any teaching that takes away from the effectiveness of this marvelous transaction must be considered a most dangerous heresy. Any doctrine that would make it impossible for Christ to live a perfect life in the flesh, or to die as a substitute for man, must be considered an enemy of righteousness. 
I'd like to suggest that millions of Christians today have unwittingly accepted a theological position that does this very thing. Most of those who are deceived on this matter actually believe that they are honoring Christ by holding their view.
TWO
What Kind of Humanity Was Required?
To understand the problem, we must look closely at the subject ofthe Incarnation. It was the Saviour’s entrance into the human family that laid the foundation for the entire redemptive process. According to the Scriptures, He had to be born of a virgin, live a sinless life, and die for our sins. In what manner and form did He fulfill those requirements? To assume human nature, He had to choose between the only two kinds available—the holy, unfallen nature of Adam, or the fallen nature of all Adam’s descendants. If He had taken any other kind, it would not have been human nature at all.
The religious world today is divided over this matter of which nature Jesus chose for His incarnate life. Those who believe He took Adam’s unfallen nature, before the lapse into sin, are called Prelapsarians. Those who believe that Jesus assumed the nature of fallen man are called Postlapsarians. Whichever position one chooses to accept of these two groups, he is locked into the limitations of that choice.
Let us consider first the implications of believing that Jesus came in the nature of unfallen Adam. It is mind-boggling to discover where this position leads us. First of all, let’s ask what kind of nature Adam had before the fall. Of course, it was a perfect, obedient nature for which sin had no appeal. But it was more than that. Adam’s pre-fall nature was also one of conditional immortality, which means that he could not die except by choosing to sin.
The truth is that there was no way for unfallen Adam to ever experience death except through disobedience. THE UNFALLEN NATURE OF ADAM COULD NOT DIE. It only became subject to death after Adam sinned. If he had never sinned, Adam would have continued to have access to the tree of life. “Obedience, perfect and perpetual, was the condition of eternal happiness. On this condition he was to have access to the tree of life.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 49).
When God created man, He set up the condition by which he could live forever. “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Genesis 2:17). Death and separation from the tree of life was decreed for man only on the condition of his sinning. As long as Adam and Eve obeyed God, they could eat of the tree and were immune to death. “Just as prior to his fall Adam could be certain of immortality, vouchsafed to him by the tree of life, so now, subsequent to that catastrophe, his mortality was just as certain” (SDA Bible Commentary Volume 1, p. 225).
It is very important for us to understand the reason for Jesus taking on a body of flesh when He came into this world. The Bible says, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death … that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9).
Jesus had to come as a man in order to experience death and pay the penalty for sin. He could not die as God. He had to put on a nature that was capable of dying. But here is the startling truth: If He had taken Adam’s unfallen nature, He could never have died UNLESS HE HAD SINNED! That nature was not subject to death until after it was weakened by sin. Jesus could taste death only by being born into the fallen family of Adam’s descendants. As one writer has put it, “Christ did in reality unite the offending nature of man with His own sinless nature, because by this act of condescension, He would be able to pour out His blood in behalf of the fallen race” (Ellen G. White, Manuscript 166, 1898).
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His Humanity Subject to Death
Paul emphasized this point when he described how Jesus “was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross” (Philippians 2:8). Notice that it was only after He was made in fashion as a man that He could become “obedient to death.” His divinity was not subject to death, therefore He could not live here and die as God. He had to assume a nature that could die. The atonement for sin would have been totally impossible had He not been born with the only nature that could be “obedient unto death,” Adam’s fallen nature. This is why the Scriptures also teach, “For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham” (Hebrews 2: 16).
Why did He not come with the nature of angels? Because they, like Adam, had been created with a conditional immortality, and were not subject to death unless or until they sinned. Christ could not have paid the price for sin as an angel because He could not have died. Neither could He make atonement as an unfallen Adam, because He could not have died in that nature either. He had to come as the “seed of Abraham.”
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The seed of Abraham consisted only and entirely of those who were subject to death because of Adam's sin. Had Christ taken the pre-fall nature of Adam, He could never have suffered the required death for our sins unless He had first sinned, and sin would have disqualified Him from being our Saviour. 
Again, I say we are locked into the limitations that the pre-fall nature requires. Jesus made it very clear that He was submitting to live in this world as a man and not as God. But limiting Himself to the condition of humanity, Jesus could draw from His Father only those powers and advantages which are available to others living in the flesh. Repeatedly Christ stated that He could say nothing and do nothing that was not given Him by the Father. 
In other words, Jesus did not capriciously shift back and forth between His divine and human natures in order to escape the exigencies of this earthly life. He accepted the dangers, rebuffs and sufferings imposed by His living as a man. Satan constantly sought to goad Him into using His divinity to deliver Himself from certain situations, and it must have been the Master's strongest test not to call upon His own omnipotence during those excruciating final hours of His life on earth. Had He done so, the plan of salvation would have failed. Even in His death, he had to submit to the conditions imposed by His human nature.
FOUR
The Pre-fall Nature Could Not Die
Now we are brought to a dilemma. If Jesus possessed Adam’s unfallen nature, it was not possible for Him to die except by sinning or by changing those rules under which He had submitted to live His earthly life. By doing either, the plan of salvation would have been thwarted. Some might suggest that by assuming man’s guilt and being made sin for us, Jesus’ nature was also changed so that it could experience death. But this is not the case. The vicarious assumption of our guilt for sin would not have changed His human nature. Sin did not enter His life to corrupt or defile. He only received those sins vicariously, which means He took them AS THOUGH they were His own, even though they were not.
But please mark this important distinction: When He assumed human nature, He did not do it vicariously. He did not live here AS THOUGH He were a man. He actually took human nature. He became one of us in reality.
Therefore, the vicarious assumption of man’s guilt did not enter His life to corrupt that nature with actual sin. Whatever human nature He had experienced for 33 years was still with Him, and He carried it to the cross with Him. He was just as holy after assuming our guilt as He was before. The only change was in the way God looked on Him and dealt with Him judicially.
According to God’s creation edict, man’s conditional immortality could be lost ONLY by COMMITTING sin. It could not be lost through some vicarious ACCOUNTING of guilt. Only the defiling influence of sin entering the heart could bring a change of nature that would make man subject to death. This never happened to Jesus. His being accounted as guilty did not make Him guilty. But His human nature was not just accounted to Him: It was real. And He had to accept that reality through His entire life, even in the experience of death on the cross. The fact that He submitted to that death is proof positive that He was not acting in harmony with the requirements of a pre-fall nature.
Some claim that it does not matter what we believe on this question of Christ’s incarnate nature, but the truth is that tremendous issues hinge on this question. If I choose to believe that Jesus came in the unfallen nature, there is no way for me to avoid one of the following conclusions:
He could not die to pay the penalty for my sin, or
He Himself sinned in order to become subject to death, or
He had to exercise His divine power to change the human nature He had assumed, in order to escape the limitations it imposed. Only thus could He be made subject to the death required for the atonement. The unfallen nature could not die.
Anyone of those three things would have thwarted His ability to fulfill His substitutionary role as our Redeemer.
It has been claimed that those who follow the post-fall doctrine of Christ’s nature thereby make Him guilty of sin. I’d like to suggest that only those who believe in the pre-fall nature project such a distorted view. In fact, theirs is the only position that makes it necessary for Christ to sin in order to accomplish the plan of salvation.
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The Prelapsarians sincerely believe that to be born with Adam’s fallen nature would make Jesus guilty of sin. Consequently, in an abortive attempt to remove Him from being subject to sin, they remove Him from being subject to death!
FIVE
Original Sin Not Biblical
Why then have those who believe in the post-fall nature been charged with making Christ a sinner? Simply because those who make the charge believe in the doctrine of original sin. Postlapsarians do not believe that sin is imparted by nature, but rather by choice. They hold that Jesus did not assume any guilt when He was born as a man. He inherited the same weakened nature that sin imposed upon all of Adam’s descendants, but He never yielded to those weaknesses in a single instance. His life was absolutely holy and sinless. Filled with the Holy Spirit from His mother’s womb and trusting the daily impartation of heavenly power, He lived a life of uninterrupted victory over every sin.
That same life of continual victory is available to every other descendant of Adam through the process of conversion and sanctification. Jesus simply chose something before His birth that we are only able to choose after our birth. He chose to submit His human life totally to His Father from the moment of conception. We make that decision at the time of conversion and begin to partake of the divine nature of God—the same nature that sustained Jesus for 33 years of holy living.
We are brought to the undeniable conclusion that this subject is not one on which we can be neutral. In the doctrine of the pre-fall nature of Christ, we not only lose the encouragement of having even one example of victory over sin in the flesh, but we abolish all possibility of Christ being our divine sin-bearer. God forbid that we should dishonor His name by holding such a limited, erroneous view of His substitutionary atoning death for our sins.
Some have subscribed to the idea that Jesus did not assume either the pre-fall or post-fall nature of man, but an entirely unique nature that has never been possessed by other human beings. They propose that He had the spiritual nature of unfallen Adam and the physical nature of post-fall Adam. They feel it is necessary to do this in order to account for Jesus’ sinless experience in His years of infancy and youth. But is it necessary to give Him a different nature because He had a different experience from other children? How different was His experience? It was a life of full surrender and obedience to His father. Is this accessible to other children? It is indeed, just as soon as they are old enough to make a total commitment to Christ. Because of His preexistence, Christ was able to make that commitment before He was born. If other human beings are able to appropriate the power of victory over sin at a later age, even with a fallen nature, then why couldn’t Jesus do the same at an earlier age—with the same nature? We are talking only about a difference of time, not a difference of nature.
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Someone might say, "Well, that gives Jesus an advantage over us." But wait a moment. What kind of advantage is it? If you accepted Christ two years before I did, then you had an advantage over me DURING THAT TWO YEARS. The truth is that Christ only had the same kind of advantage over us that we have over all others who enter the conversion experience later than we do. It is not a difference in nature except that which is common to every soul who surrenders the life unreservedly to Christ. By this I am not saying that Jesus needed or experienced conversion after His birth. He was filled with the Holy Ghost from His mother's womb, so His sinless experience was based on something that we can only experience at the time we are born again. 

What are the objections to believing that Jesus had the spiritual nature of unfallen Adam and the physical nature of post-fall Adam? Three serious flaws seem to make it irreconcilable with biblical theology:
It conflicts with the wholistic Bible view of man’s nature.
Where does the Bible teach that there is a dichotomy between body and spirit? Scriptural truth has always been in favor of a unified understanding of human nature, with body and spirit interacting together to produce total mental and physical health. But when we come to the nature of Christ, this wholistic concept is abandoned and some begin to talk in dualistic terms, with part of Christ’s nature being sinful and part being sinless.
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How could there be such a combination within Him as the unfallen spiritual nature of Adam and, at the same time, the fallen physical nature of sinful men? Are we trying to say that Christ's physical weaknesses had no impact on His spiritual nature? Would it not be true that Christ would be most prone to discouragement or irritation when His body was physically tired? If this is true, then Christ would have tendencies to sin in His moral or spiritual nature.
It suggests a hybrid nature possessed neither by Adam nor those who lived after him.

continued – final post next
 
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With no such combination known among human kind, this totally different nature could not be designated as “human nature” at all. It would be hopelessly at odds with the Bible requirement that Christ “also himself likewise took part of the same … in all things … made like unto his brethren” (Hebrews 2: 17). No one would contend that such a blend of unfallen and fallen natures would be in “all things” like his brethren! It would be unlike “His brethren” before the fall if He had a fallen physical nature, and it would be unlike “His brethren” after the fall if He had a sinless spiritual nature. What other “brethren” are left? Logic compels us to finally confess that if His nature was “in all things … the same” as His brethren, then it would be required that some brethren be produced who had an unfallen spiritual nature and a fallen physical nature. If no such brother could be found, then Jesus would, by necessity, have to possess a human nature “in all things … the same” as pre-fall Adam or “in all things … the same” as post-fall Adam. To do otherwise is to either deny the plain words of Scripture or deny simple logic.
It would nullify the possibility for Christ to be “in all points tempted like we are” (Hebrews 4: 15).
It seems inconceivable that Adam’s holy, unfallen nature could be tempted in every way that we are tempted. He had no inward response to temptation whatsoever, and surely there is no one who will assert that our fallen natures are not strongly tempted from within. Good theology does not defy rationality. Whatever we believe on this point, it must be consistent with clear statements of the Bible. If Jesus was tempted in all points “like as we are,” it could not have taken place in the physical arena alone. Most of our temptations arise from a weakened spiritual and moral nature. If this source of our strongest temptations was absent in Jesus, then He never could have been tempted in all points “like as we are.” It would be a self-contradiction to even suggest such a thing.
Now let us look briefly at the biblical evidence for the post-fall view. The second chapter of Hebrews contains an abundance of material on this subject. Consider these words: “As the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Christ] also himself likewise took part of the same … Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest” (Hebrews 2:14-17).
Code:
This verse is one of the most emphatic and definitive to be found in the Bible. A combination of words is used that leaves absolutely no doubt about what is being said. Any one of the words would express the clear thought being presented. 
For example:
He took part of the same
He also took part of the same
He Himself took part of the same
He likewise took part of the same
In all things made like His brethren
Why did God choose to give a fivefold impact by putting all those expressions together in one Scripture setting? It almost sounds repetitive. “He also himself likewise took part of the same.” Surely the reason lies in the extraordinary importance of the truth being expressed. God wanted to leave no lingering question about the nature of the Lamb who was slain. Any misunderstanding here could cast a shadow over the entire plan of salvation. It could challenge the validity of Christ’s substitutionary death on the cross and the adequacy of His imputed righteousness.
How is it possible for anyone to misconstrue the precise language used in these verses? The answer is obvious. Satan hates this truth. It is a dramatic illustration of his deceptive cunning that he is able to take the most unambiguous verse in the Bible and cloud its meaning. It is also an amazing example of the power of the mind to believe what it wants to believe.
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I submit that if God had used ten or twenty ways of saying the same thing, it would still be rejected and denied by those who do not want to believe it. Would it be any more convincing by adding extra words and phrases? For example, "He also himself verily likewise in the same manner truly in all things exactly took part of the same." It would be useless to multiply adjectives and more rhetoric, for it could not make the matter any more clear than it is. 
Look at that phrase carefully: "Took part of the same." What does it mean? The same as what? The previous verse gives the answer. The same as the children who are born of flesh and blood. By this illustration, the Bible writer closes every possibility for speculating about the human nature of Jesus. Nothing could be more convincing. Since no children were born into the world before Adam and Eve sinned, it is beyond question that every child who has partaken of flesh and blood by necessity partook of Adam's fallen nature. So when the author of Hebrews wrote that Jesus "took part of the same" and was "in all things … made like unto his brethren," it is an unanswerable assertion. Only by proving that some children were born of flesh and blood without a fallen nature could anyone rationally challenge the post-fall human nature of Christ. The very same verse declares that He took the same nature as all other children born in order that "he might be a merciful and faithful high priest … to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Only thus could He have been qualified as a suitable representative of the human family before the Father. 

Someone might argue that Christ could do anything He wanted to do without limitations of any kind. Indeed He could have. He could have chosen to sin, but He didn't! He could have saved Himself from the pain of the thorns and the nails, but He didn't! He could have come in a nature that could not suffer death, but He didn't! Thank God that He did none of those things, but "humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." What a Saviour!
 
**Two questions:

I would like some references to these findings.

Have you researched the history on Pope Damasus ?

written with love **
I gave you a secular site. Did you visit that?

Here’s another one: newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Pope_Damasus_I

And here’s another: books.google.com/books?id=WlNfJC6RveAC&pg=PA361&lpg=PA361&dq=%22pope+damasus%22+encyclopedia&source=bl&ots=TnmvnTFIrV&sig=2IGabmNDw8yUweys3CsxRvK-v6s&hl=en&ei=HSD4TdCNOIKcgQeGr8yMDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCYQ6AEwATgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

Note: all are secular sources.
 
certain people love to accuse. And the SDA cult is born.

But prior to the SDA cult there where people that believed in a flat earth(fixed week Sabbath). Amazes me that people still believe in this ****.

If one man believes its a delusion. If thousands believe its a religion.
Response - Do you hate SDA Christians ?
 
The better understanding is that the apostles were the actual witnesses to Jesus Christ, His Majesty…when reading and pondering over the simple but most profound language of St. Peter in his second letter.

The earliest church made it its most profound mission to insure that the testimony of Jesus Christ would be passed on to subsequent generations, so that by 100 AD, the manner of governing, worship were established throughout the ancient Christian world at that time.

It took the Church 200 years to finally accept the Book of Hebrews as inspired for public revelation, as well as alot of time determining if indeed the Gospel of St. John was written by him.

I don’t think people today consider how profound it was for earliest believers to have integrity of faith, and the concern it would be passed on to future generations.

The Church is the body of many people; it is not the movement of one or two people. Jesus Christ and His apostles are the foundation of the Church. Reading what happens at a Mass around 155 AD is very similar in tone, respect, and vision as it was then.

The books of the Bible that are acknowledged by the Church as divinely inspired also acknowledge the faith tradition of the Jewish faith, and incorporate it into the Bible as we know it. The Council of Trent affirmed that the Books the Catholic Church draws on in the Bible are indeed divinely inspired and meant for public revelation.
**Response - AMEN **
 
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