All Graces Come Through Mary

[jmj1984]

No its not a pious belief, its a church teaching and may very well be the Fifth Marion Dogma. And its the teaching of Lumen Gentium which is “the” Doctrine of the church. All the info has been laid on this thread for this already. However, Should you want to view a Wikipedia article which quickly sums it up…

search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7lMA4FhOx08ALe5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEydmpkOG5lBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0RGRDVfODY-/SIG=11q3oqnkd/EXP=1314476160/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediatrix

The doctrine has been solemnly defined by a few pope’s, in this case it has just not been raised to the level of Dogma/Infallible.

Peace

When its shown to be De Fide I shall assent to it, till then I cannot accept at least the interpretation given to it by many, maybe I am wrong but so too there is a chance you are wrong. What is clear is that it is not required for salvation and further it has no grounding in the church fathers, until that’s shown not to be the case I cannot assent to it.

 

[At_Trent]

Perhaps the bickering over the fifth dogma is the eighth dolor.

 

[TrueLight]

Perhaps the bickering over the fifth dogma is the eighth dolor.

Except there is no fifth dogma yet, as far as I know.

I wish there was such zeal for the things of Christ as there is a zeal to create more Marian dogmas.

Yes, I know when we honor Mary we honor Christ, and that it’s not a competition, but did you ever wonder why everything seems to be about Mary? It is as if Christ’s age is over.

You believe if you stick to Mary you can’t go wrong.

I believe if I stick to Christ, I can’t go wrong.

Can we both be right?

 

[GaryTaylor]

I don’t believe I called anyone a heretic. When you also say this wasn’t mentioned in this thread? I did mention Lumen Gentium and the chaper. Here is the sections of Lumen Gentium.

Also no one ever spoke on the “single dignity” of the BVM but only in regards to Her Son Jesus Christ, TrueLight? Where am I saying this?

1. Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was on this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. She presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. [Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.]
2. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)

This is the only point being made. What I also stated earlier in in the latin original text the word generates Grace is the correct translation. Which I only mentioned because that word was used by St Loius de Montfort, which someone else mentioned.

Peace

 

[TrueLight]

I don’t believe I called anyone a heretic. When you also say this wasn’t mentioned in this thread? I did mention Lumen Gentium and the chaper. Here is the sections of Lumen Gentium.

Also no one ever spoke on the “single dignity” of the BVM but only in regards to Her Son Jesus Christ, TrueLight? Where am I saying this?

1. Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was on this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. She presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. [Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.]
2. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)

This is the only point being made. What I also stated earlier in in the latin original text the word generates Grace is the correct translation. Which I only mentioned because that word was used by St Loius de Montfort.

Peace

I happened to be responding to you, but I’m speaking generally. This whole thread is about the question of whether all graces go through Mary. I don’t see that document stating that.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I happened to be responding to you, but I’m speaking generally. This whole thread is abot the question of whether all graces go through Mary. I don’t see that document stating that.

Are you talking about without Jesus Christ?

 

[At_Trent]

One can’t have strong devotion to Mary without strong devotion to Jesus Christ.

Jesus is mentioned/acknowledged/honored more times in the Rosary than Mary. God the father is as well. The Holy Ghost is honored several times.

How about the Angelus ?

The Angel of the Lord declared to Mary:
And she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of
our death. Amen.

Behold the handmaid of the Lord: Be it done unto me according to Thy word.

Hail Mary . . .

And the Word was made Flesh: And dwelt among us.

Hail Mary . . .

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Let us pray:

Pour forth, we beseech Thee, O Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that we, to whom the incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, was made known by the message of an angel, may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of His Resurrection, through the same Christ Our Lord.

Amen.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Except there is no fifth dogma yet, as far as I know.?

Correct and that is why I stated it.

However there is the DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH,
LUMEN GENTIUM and the paragraphs I posted are the teachings referred to. 61. last sentence… [Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.]

I wish there was such zeal for the things of Christ as there is a zeal to create more Marian dogmas.

There is and Pope Benedict is active working as we see by his release’s on Jesus in 07 and 2011.

Yes, I know when we honor Mary we honor Christ, and that it’s not a competition, but did you ever wonder why everything seems to be about Mary? It is as if Christ’s age is over.?

Right its not any competition what-so-ever. When you say Mary she echos Jesus Christ.

You believe if you stick to Mary you can’t go wrong.?

Mary interceeds, She is not raised to the level of replacement for God. Can those who follow the Church/Mass and recite the Rosary or whichever devotion they have chosen go wrong? How? In this sense the Rosary is a highly recommended set of prayers.

I believe if I stick to Christ, I can’t go wrong.?

And no-one anywhere told you this was wrong, very much on the contrary to read this thread. Many time’s by myself its stated The Holy Sacrifice is the most important aspect of the Catholic Faith. The point of contention became does Grace come through Mary.

Can we both be right?

Of course both are right. The BVM isn’t leading anyone, anywhere but to the Godhead. And that is the daily reality of the Holy Sacrifice.

Peace

 

[TrueLight]

One can’t have strong devotion to Mary without strong devotion to Jesus Christ.

Jesus is mentioned/acknowledged/honored more times in the Rosary than Mary. God the father is as well. The Holy Ghost is honored several times.

How about the Angelus ?

The Angel of the Lord declared to Mary:
And she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of
our death. Amen.

Behold the handmaid of the Lord: Be it done unto me according to Thy word.

Hail Mary . . .

And the Word was made Flesh: And dwelt among us.

Hail Mary . . .

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Let us pray:

Pour forth, we beseech Thee, O Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that we, to whom the incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, was made known by the message of an angel, may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of His Resurrection, through the same Christ Our Lord.

Amen.

The Angelus is a wonderful prayer.

 

[Dorothy]

Except there is no fifth dogma yet, as far as I know.

I wish there was such zeal for the things of Christ as there is a zeal to create more Marian dogmas.

Yes, I know when we honor Mary we honor Christ, and that it’s not a competition, but did you ever wonder why everything seems to be about Mary? It is as if Christ’s age is over.

You believe if you stick to Mary you can’t go wrong.

I believe if I stick to Christ, I can’t go wrong.

Can we both be right?

That reminds me that Mary and Jesus are truly one in mind, heart, and spirit.

 

[Dorothy]

A long time ago a priest pointed out to me that Mary is like a clear pane of glass with no smudges (no sin) that allows the Light of the Blessed Trinity to shine perfectly through.

Everything she has comes from the Lord. She is nothing without the Lord, and she knows it. That is true humility.

 

[At_Trent]

A long time ago a priest pointed out to me that Mary is like a clear pane of glass with no smudges (no sin) that allows the Light of the Blessed Trinity to shine perfectly through.

Everything she has comes from the Lord. She is nothing without the Lord, and she knows it. That is true humility.

Well said

 

[TrueLight]

Someone did mention heresy in this thread and someone else suggested that maybe I should ‘wait’ before entering the church (although technically, I am already Catholic), so this is serious stuff.

I just think folks ought to be careful about discouraging others from entering the church based on what may eventually become dogma, but as of now, is not.

BTW, I just spoke to a traditional priest who told me that the Church is leaning in that direction, but that I could be a Catholic in good standing and NOT believe that all graces come through Mary, but that if it ever becomes dogma, I must assent to it.



And I know for a fact, he totally adheres to that teaching.

So in the interim, maybe the Lord will either work on my heart and those of others who struggle with this teaching, or he will make sure that it never becomes dogma.

 

[Te_Deum]

“The reason why Christ is unknown today is because His Mother is unknown.” - Saint Cardinal John Henry Newman

It’s Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman. And that’s a Saint Louis Marie de Montfort quote .

 

[At_Trent]

“Mary should be honored, but graces do not come through Mary”

That indicates NO graces come through Mary. Right now, it can be argued ALL graces do not come through Mary. But to say NONE do is a grave error at best and in fact heretical.

I know no one here has actually stated “Mary should be honored, but graces do not come through Mary”, but obviously quite a few voted such. I’d suggest they rethink such thought.

 

[Dorothy]

Someone did mention heresy in this thread and someone else suggested that maybe I should ‘wait’ before entering the church (although technically, I am already Catholic), so this is serious stuff.

I just think folks ought to be careful about discouraging others from entering the church based on what may eventually become dogma, but as of now, is not.

BTW, I just spoke to a traditional priest who told me that the Church is leaning in that direction, but that I could be a Catholic in good standing and NOT believe that all graces come through Mary, but that if it ever becomes dogma, I must assent to it.



And I know for a fact, he totally adheres to that teaching.

So in the interim, maybe the Lord will either work on my heart and those of others who struggle with this teaching, or he will make sure that it never becomes dogma.

I admire your sincerity, honesty, and desire to do the right thing.

 

[TimothyH]

I admire your sincerity, honesty, and desire to do the right thing.

As do I.

Often we have to enter the tomb with Jesus in order to come out into the light of the ressurection with Jesus. I am not always saddened when one such as TL goest through some anguish and struggles with a matter of faith, or is even greately tempted. These are times of tremendous growth and God often waits for things to settle down, to become quiet, and after we surrender it to his will, he gives us great light and understanding when we least expect it.

We know that polls on an internet message board do not determine truth. But the heartbreak felt by TL was because of her zeal for God and love for Jesus Christ, and that has to be rewarded by God.

Thy kindom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

-Tim-

 

[TrueLight]

As do I.

Often we have to enter the tomb with Jesus in order to come out into the light of the ressurection with Jesus. I am not always saddened when one such as TL goest through some anguish and struggles with a matter of faith, or is even greately tempted. These are times of tremendous growth and God often waits for things to settle down, to become quiet, and after we surrender it to his will, he gives us great light and understanding when we least expect it.

We know that polls on an internet message board do not determine truth. But the heartbreak felt by TL was because of her zeal for God and love for Jesus Christ, and that has to be rewarded by God.

Thy kindom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

-Tim-

Thank you, Dorothy and Timothy. Your posts are very touching.

I believe God has great things in store for me.

 

[Celticnovice]

As do I.

Often we have to enter the tomb with Jesus in order to come out into the light of the ressurection with Jesus. I am not always saddened when one such as TL goest through some anguish and struggles with a matter of faith, or is even greately tempted. These are times of tremendous growth and God often waits for things to settle down, to become quiet, and after we surrender it to his will, he gives us great light and understanding when we least expect it.

We know that polls on an internet message board do not determine truth. But the heartbreak felt by TL was because of her zeal for God and love for Jesus Christ, and that has to be rewarded by God.

Thy kindom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

-Tim-

Excellent post…I will remember Truelight and other new Catholics in my prayers as they continue to “come home”

 

[Groucho_Marx]

**:hey_bud: I never understood what was so difficult in accepting that the Father willed that you go to the Mother in order to get to the Son? **