All Graces Come Through Mary

[jmj1984]

Someone did mention heresy in this thread and someone else suggested that maybe I should ‘wait’ before entering the church (although technically, I am already Catholic), so this is serious stuff.

I just think folks ought to be careful about discouraging others from entering the church based on what may eventually become dogma, but as of now, is not.

BTW, I just spoke to a traditional priest who told me that the Church is leaning in that direction, but that I could be a Catholic in good standing and NOT believe that all graces come through Mary, but that if it ever becomes dogma, I must assent to it.



And I know for a fact, he totally adheres to that teaching.

So in the interim, maybe the Lord will either work on my heart and those of others who struggle with this teaching, or he will make sure that it never becomes dogma.

I’m glad all is well

 

[TrueLight]

I’m glad all is well

I am much relieved.

 

[simple_soul]

We were discussing this in another thread and I want to take take a poll, because I am very concerned. In fact, my heart is aching right now, because I fear I may have misunderstood Catholicism all along. I see Catholicism as a Christian religion based on Christ’s sacrifice where, his Blessed mother is honored above all the Saints and intercedes for us. I do not see Catholicism as a Marian religion, through whom everything passes and eventually ends up with Christ.I am very troubled.
Please be charitable.

Dear TrueLight, I have been following this thread and the one that jmj started with great interest. First I do believe Mary herself would be the first to reassure you that Catholicism is Christ centered no matter how much you go through her. Just remember the story of the wedding at Cana. She pointed to Jesus and told the servants “do what He tells you!”
I am not sure I can explain adequately her title of being the Mediatrix of all graces because it is something I do not fully understand myself but I can try to explain what I believe I understand or see.
I believe that one of the ways that helps me to understand the Blessed Mother Mary and her role as Mediatrix is by first understanding the word “mediatrix” By definition it is; “a woman who mediates, especially between parties at variance.” The "parties at variance I believe in this case is us and our Human nature and Jesus Christ and His Divine Nature.
In the Eastern Churches I remember hearing our Blessed Mother Mary referred to as “the Gateway” or the “Arch” and how Jesus comes to us and we go to Him through this Gateway or Arch. The way I see it is as we pass through this Gateway or Arch we become like the Gateway or Arch and as we become like the Gateway or Arch that is how we are able to open ourselves up to Jesus and truly let Him into our lives so that He can transform us into Himself. If we think about it when God passed through this same Gateway or Arch He became us by taking on our Human nature. So I see it as a dual thing happening as Jesus becomes us we become Him and we are transformed into Himself. This reminds of what St. Paul refers to when He talks about how it is no longer I but Christ who dwells in me. I am also reminded of how Jesus mentions that we have to be reborn and how in Revelations St. John describes the woman who is in labor and about to give birth and again I am seeing this Gateway or Arch but now I am seeing this Gateway or Arch as more of a birth canal. As Jesus transforms us into Himself and we become more Christ-like we do go through what I can only describe and relate to as being like going through the labor of childbirth only we are the ones being born into Christ and He is being born into us simutainiously. Now I believe the reason why Mary is referred to as being the Mediatrix of all Graces is because in order for this rebirth to happen we have to be like her. If we are not like her, the dragon that wants to destroy the woman’s child in the book of Revelations will succeed. I believe our egos are the dragon. In order to keep our egos from destroying ourselves we have to be like Mary in all ways. Trusting, humble, virtuous, pure…these are the graces we need in order to let Jesus Christ into our lives and to let Him transform us into Himself…it is these graces that I believe God gave to her so that He could come to us in the first place and it was because of these graces that she was able to say yes to Him when He asked. I guess I kind of see it this way…the only way we can let Jesus into ourselves is if we accept the same graces that God poured into His Blessed Mother Mary…the only way God came into the world was by Mary saying yes to Him and letting Himself be born into the world through and of her…the only way we can let Jesus into ourselves is if we accept the same graces that God poured into His Blessed Mother Mary…I believe the reason He gave us her to be our Mother was so that she could shower us, nurture us and share with us those graces she was given so that we too can say yes to Jesus when He comes to us.
I know you mentioned on a different thread that you are a mother yourself. I am not sure how old your child/children are but I am sure you can remember how when they were just learning there independence and starting to walk how much of a watchful eye you had to keep on them as they went after the things they found to be most fascinating. Like the big ball that was being kicked around by bigger children… or the one the dog was playing with…as thier mother you had to protect and guide your child from many unforeseen dangers as they went after this ball. I do not believe your child ever even thought once about asking you first at that age but I am sure you stepped right in and helped and protected them as much as you could. Usually they did get what they had there eye on but it took a lot of “intersession” from you to help your child to eventually get it. I believe Mary helps us in the same way. As we come to know Jesus and say yes to Him when He comes knocking…or as our desire to be one with Him deepens…she is always there with her watchful eye guiding and protecting us on our journey to Him by sharring with us the same graces that God gave her so that we become like her and join her in her yes to Him. I believe she intuitively knows what God knows we need and how we need to go about deepening our relationship with Him and she does everything she can to ensure it happens…
Like I said earlier I do not fully understand this myself but I do hope and pray these thoughts make some sense and maybe help in some way or another…with my prayers

 

[TrueLight]

Dear TrueLight, I have been following this thread and the one that jmj started with great interest. First I do believe Mary herself would be the first to reassure you that Catholicism is Christ centered no matter how much you go through her. Just remember the story of the wedding at Cana. She pointed to Jesus and told the servants “do what He tells you!”
I am not sure I can explain adequately her title of being the Mediatrix of all graces because it is something I do not fully understand myself but I can try to explain what I believe I understand or see.
I believe that one of the ways that helps me to understand the Blessed Mother Mary and her role as Mediatrix is by first understanding the word “mediatrix” By definition it is; “a woman who mediates, especially between parties at variance.” The "parties at variance I believe in this case is us and our Human nature and Jesus Christ and His Divine Nature.
In the Eastern Churches I remember hearing our Blessed Mother Mary referred to as “the Gateway” or the “Arch” and how Jesus comes to us and we go to Him through this Gateway or Arch. The way I see it is as we pass through this Gateway or Arch we become like the Gateway or Arch and as we become like the Gateway or Arch that is how we are able to open ourselves up to Jesus and truly let Him into our lives so that He can transform us into Himself. If we think about it when God passed through this same Gateway or Arch He became us by taking on our Human nature. So I see it as a dual thing happening as Jesus becomes us we become Him and we are transformed into Himself. This reminds of what St. Paul refers to when He talks about how it is no longer I but Christ who dwells in me. I am also reminded of how Jesus mentions that we have to be reborn and how in Revelations St. John describes the woman who is in labor and about to give birth and again I am seeing this Gateway or Arch but now I am seeing this Gateway or Arch as more of a birth canal. As Jesus transforms us into Himself and we become more Christ-like we do go through what I can only describe and relate to as being like going through the labor of childbirth only we are the ones being born into Christ and He is being born into us simutainiously. Now I believe the reason why Mary is referred to as being the Mediatrix of all Graces is because in order for this rebirth to happen we have to be like her. If we are not like her, the dragon that wants to destroy the woman’s child in the book of Revelations will succeed. I believe our egos are the dragon. In order to keep our egos from destroying ourselves we have to be like Mary in all ways. Trusting, humble, virtuous, pure…these are the graces we need in order to let Jesus Christ into our lives and to let Him transform us into Himself…it is these graces that I believe God gave to her so that He could come to us in the first place and it was because of these graces that she was able to say yes to Him when He asked. I guess I kind of see it this way…the only way we can let Jesus into ourselves is if we accept the same graces that God poured into His Blessed Mother Mary…the only way God came into the world was by Mary saying yes to Him and letting Himself be born into the world through and of her…the only way we can let Jesus into ourselves is if we accept the same graces that God poured into His Blessed Mother Mary…I believe the reason He gave us her to be our Mother was so that she could shower us, nurture us and share with us those graces she was given so that we too can say yes to Jesus when He comes to us.
I know you mentioned on a different thread that you are a mother yourself. I am not sure how old your child/children are but I am sure you can remember how when they were just learning there independence and starting to walk how much of a watchful eye you had to keep on them as they went after the things they found to be most fascinating. Like the big ball that was being kicked around by bigger children… or the one the dog was playing with…as thier mother you had to protect and guide your child from many unforeseen dangers as they went after this ball. I do not believe your child ever even thought once about asking you first at that age but I am sure you stepped right in and helped and protected them as much as you could. Usually they did get what they had there eye on but it took a lot of “intersession” from you to help your child to eventually get it. I believe Mary helps us in the same way. As we come to know Jesus and say yes to Him when He comes knocking…or as our desire to be one with Him deepens…she is always there with her watchful eye guiding and protecting us on our journey to Him by sharring with us the same graces that God gave her so that we become like her and join her in her yes to Him. I believe she intuitively knows what God knows we need and how we need to go about deepening our relationship with Him and she does everything she can to ensure it happens…
Like I said earlier I do not fully understand this myself but I do hope and pray these thoughts make some sense and maybe help in some way or another…with my prayers

Wow. Awesome and deep perspective about the birth canal and the dragon (ego).

In order to keep our egos from destroying ourselves we have to be like Mary in all ways. Trusting, humble, virtuous, pure…these are the graces we need in order to let Jesus Christ into our lives and to let Him transform us into Himself…it is these graces that I believe God gave to her so that He could come to us in the first place and it was because of these graces that she was able to say yes to Him when He asked. I guess I kind of see it this way…the only way we can let Jesus into ourselves is if we accept the same graces that God poured into His Blessed Mother Mary.

I shall meditate on this.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

“Mary should be honored, but graces do not come through Mary”

That indicates NO graces come through Mary. Right now, it can be argued ALL graces do not come through Mary. But to say NONE do is a grave error at best and in fact heretical.

I know no one here has actually stated “Mary should be honored, but graces do not come through Mary”, but obviously quite a few voted such. I’d suggest they rethink such thought.

I guess the statement in the poll is the problem to start with. I misunderstood, assumed she asked whether Mary is a source of graces. So I wasn’t paying enough attention and voted for this option.

But the discussion has been most helpful. I am personally not troubled by the Marian dogmas but could easily live my Catholic life without them. I find discussion on this most helpful and I learn a lot.

 

[yablabo]

We were discussing this in another thread and I want to take take a poll, because I am very concerned.

In fact, my heart is aching right now, because I fear I may have misunderstood Catholicism all along. I see Catholicism as a Christian religion based on Christ’s sacrifice where, his Blessed mother is honored above all the Saints and intercedes for us.

I do not see Catholicism as a Marian religion, through whom everything passes and eventually ends up with Christ.

I am very troubled.

Please be charitable.

Every grace which is communicated has a three-fold origin: it flows from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin to us. – Pope Leo XIII

The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. Through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is God’s will: that we obtain everything through Mary. – Ven. Pope Pius IX

Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. – Pope Leo XIII

The Child is not found without Mary, His Mother. If, then, it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary. – Pope St. Pius X

Christ entrusted to His Mother’s maternal care the mission of making the Church a single family. Yes, in Mary we have the bond of communion for all of us who, through Faith and Baptism, are disciples and brothers of Jesus. – Bl. Pope John Paul II

 

[Cat]

Has anyone on this thread listened to the Tim Staples CDs on Marian doctrines?

catholicfamilycatalog.com/all-generations-shall-call-me-blessed-audio-cd-set-tim-staples.htm

Of course, this is an apologetics approach, and perhaps is not what you are looking for. You may be looking for more theological depth.

But Staples does a good job of thoroughly justifying the Marian doctrines that often trouble Protestants. (My husband and I are ex-evangelical Protestants).

 

[GaryTaylor]

The developement of the Marian Doctrines has been a process as far back as the Annunciation. Of course we see the quotes above and there are many. Or the further aspect of Chapter VIII Lumen Gentium, which has left the door open for further definition with its implications and indications. And is the focus of the thinking behind further dogma which is already promoted and taught.

When its dogmatically stated by Pius XII that “the Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory” thus further establishing the Coronation and Queen of Heaven, than what do you suppose is the responsibility bestowed on the BVM as we seem to see Lumen Gentium VIII indicating?

Pope Benedict XVI noted that Mary’s acceptance of the divine will is the ultimate reason she is Queen of Heaven. Because of her humble and unconditional acceptance of God’s will “God exalted her over all other creatures, and Christ crowned her Queen of heaven and earth.”

So on Mediatrix, by EWTN

Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces
by Father William G. Most

Closely related to the Catholic teaching on Mary’s cooperation in the redemption is the teaching that, with through and under her Son, she is Mediatrix of all graces. What exactly does this mean?

The term Mediatrix in itself could refer to either the objective redemption (the once-for-all earning a title to grace for all men), to the subjective redemption (the distribution of this grace to individual men), or to both. It is most usual to use it to refer only to subjective redemption, i.e. , the process of giving out the fruits of the objective redemption, throughout all centuries. We must consider whether or not the term Mediatrix applies to all graces or only to some. We will ask also about the nature of the mediation: is it only by way of intercession, that is, does Mary simply pray to her Son that he may give us grace, or does God also use her as an instrument in distributing grace.

To begin, we can say without doubt that the title “Mediatrix” is justified, and applies to all graces for certain, by her cooperation in acquiring all graces on Calvary.

The Second Vatican Council (Lumen gentium ## 61-62), said:

… in suffering with Him as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior, in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope, and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. As a result she is our Mother in the order of grace.

This motherhood of Mary in the economy of grace lasts without interruption, from the consent which she gave in faith at the annunciation, and which she unhesitatingly bore with under the cross, even to the perpetual consummation of all the elect. For after being assumed into heaven, she has not put aside this saving function, but by her manifold intercession, she continues to win the gifts of eternal salvation for us. By her motherly love, she takes care of the brothers of her Son who are still in pilgrimage and in dangers and difficulties, until they be led through to the happy fatherland. For this reason, the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix. This however it to be so understood that it takes nothing away, or adds nothing to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator. For no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer…"

We notice that Vatican II did not add the words “of all graces.” However, as many papal texts point out, Mary’s role in dispensation flows logically from her role in acquiring all graces. Further, the Council itself added a note on the above passage, in which it refers us to the texts of Leo XIII, Adiutricem populi, St. Pius X, Ad diem illum, Pius XI, Miserentissimus Redemptor, and Pius XII, Radiomessage to Fatima.

Leo XIII, in the text referred to, spoke of her, as we saw above, as having “practically limitless power.” St. Pius X said she was the "dispensatrix of all the gifts, and is the “neck” connecting the Head of the Mystical Body to the Members. But all power flows through the neck. Pius XII said “Her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion.” These and many other texts speak in varied ways of Mary as Mediatrix of all graces, so often that the teaching has become infallible.

Here read the entire atricle.

search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7h5ZoltOgX8AEqVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEydHUzbzU2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0RGRDVfODY-/SIG=122curr9p/EXP=1314656985/**http%3a//www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

Food for thought in Catholic teaching.

Peace

 

[At_Trent]

I guess the statement in the poll is the problem to start with. I misunderstood, assumed she asked whether Mary is a source of graces. So I wasn’t paying enough attention and voted for this option.

But the discussion has been most helpful. I am personally not troubled by the Marian dogmas but could easily live my Catholic life without them. I find discussion on this most helpful and I learn a lot.

No big deal, but that option does imply no graces come through Our Lady.