All have sinned.. including Mary.

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Roman Catholics… Why don’t you believe ALL (including Mary) have sinned? God said it… shouldn’t that be final?

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
 
believers said:
Roman Catholics… Why don’t you believe ALL (including Mary) have sinned? God said it… shouldn’t that be final?

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
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Because that passage is a classic case of hyperbole in order to make a point.
**Do you REALLY believe that ALL have sinned? **
**What about the severly retarded or people with other severe mental disorders. **
What about babies? Toddlers? Have they ALL sinned?
**I think not. **

By the grace of God, having lived a sinless life was possible for the Blessed Mother because she was spared from Original Sin.
 
Because the greek word translated as “all” is really used to denote a large number, rather then to mean literally “every single person”.
 
Tim_Kirchoff said:
Did Jesus sin?
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The verse is:

For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…

How could Jesus, who IS God, fall short of Himself?

Come on people, the bible states that Jesus was sinless and since He is the same today, yesterday and forever He has ALWAYS been sinless. This argument to the ‘all have sinned’ point is weak.

I don’t think that the writers of the bible nor anyone would lump Christ in when speaking about God’s creation, including humans. It would make sense that when this statement was made it was not geared towards the author’s Lord and Savior, WHO IS PERFECT.

When we say that humans are sinful do we include Christ in this? No. So your argument holds no water…
 
God confirmed that the Virgin Mary is sinless, as confirmed by the constant teaching of the Magisterium, and yes, that is enough for me.

She is also a Virgin.

She was also conceived without original sin.

She is also in heaven, body and soul.

God also confirmed these truths, though the legitimate teaching authority of the Church.

She is blessed indeed, as she said.

Scott
 
If you look at that particular passage as a whole, you see that it is not so much referring to every single individual person, because there are many exceptions. Jesus, for example, didn’t sin. Very small children also haven’t sinned, for how could they? They don’t know what they’re doing. So, we see, there must be another answer. As you read through that whole passage, you begin to see that Paul is referring to the relative status of both Gentiles and Jews as a group; neither of them are more or less worthy than the other. That’s where Sacred Tradition comes in - because we feel that that passage is not absolute that every single individual person has sinned, but rather refers to each group of people as a whole, then there are individual exemptions. Sacred Tradition holds that Mary was immaculately conceived, and with this understanding of that Scripture passage, it may not be expressly mentioned, but it is not contradicting, either.
 
Singinbeauty said:
The verse is:

For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…

How could Jesus, who IS God, fall short of Himself?

Come on people, the bible states that Jesus was sinless and since He is the same today, yesterday and forever He has ALWAYS been sinless. This argument to the ‘all have sinned’ point is weak.

I don’t think that the writers of the bible nor anyone would lump Christ in when speaking about God’s creation, including humans. It would make sense that when this statement was made it was not geared towards the author’s Lord and Savior, WHO IS PERFECT.

When we say that humans are sinful do we include Christ in this? No. So your argument holds no water…
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But Jesus was a man too… Yeah, there’sa a reason I don’t use that argument very often;)

As the others said, it was hyperbole. Paul was rebuking a group of elitist Jewish converts to Christianity who thought themselves somehow superior to Gentile converts, Paul encountered this problem many times throughout his ministry.
 
elvisman said:
Because that passage is a classic case of hyperbole in order to make a point.
Do you REALLY believe that ALL have sinned?
What about the severly retarded or people with other severe mental disorders.
What about babies? Toddlers? Have they ALL sinned?
I think not.

By the grace of God, having lived a sinless life was possible for the Blessed Mother because she was spared from Original Sin.
Click to expand...
Great point, everyone should read this reply…
 
Singinbeauty said:
The verse is:

For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…

How could Jesus, who IS God, fall short of Himself?

When we say that humans are sinful do we include Christ in this? No. So your argument holds no water…
Click to expand...
Jesus was both fully God and fully man. To emphasize one of his natures over the other to preserve a pet theology has been the ruin of many heretics throughout the centuries.
 
The virgin Mary appeared to St Bernadette calling herself the Immaculate Conception, thereby confirming the dogma proclaimed earlier by the pope.

Mary was conceived sinless and remained that way through the grace of God.

It’s not in the bible. Please don’t ask “where is that in the bible”, it’s not in there. Neither is the part where it says the bible is the sole rule of faith. The bible is a spiritual book, not a book of laws and guidelines. Read it to improve your relationship with God, not to judge other’s relationshisps.

-revelations
 
Tim_Kirchoff said:
Did Jesus sin?
Click to expand...
Let’s look at the entire verse… There are 2 parts. The first part we fall into and the second part Jesus falls into.

Rom 3:23
For all (the created) have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (the Triune God that includes The Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit);
 
believers said:
Roman Catholics… Why don’t you believe ALL (including Mary) have sinned? God said it… shouldn’t that be final?

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Click to expand...
As it was explained to me, Mary was cleansed of all sin at the moment of conception.

She needed God, too, she just got an extra early dose of grace to be fit to bear God.
 
believers said:
Let’s look at the entire verse… There are 2 parts. The first part we fall into and the second part Jesus falls into.

Rom 3:23
For all (the created) have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (the Triune God that includes The Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit);
Click to expand...
except I already told you that “all” only denotes a great number but does not mean literally all humans
 
elvisman said:
Because that passage is a classic case of hyperbole in order to make a point.
Do you REALLY believe that ALL have sinned?
What about the severly retarded or people with other severe mental disorders.
What about babies? Toddlers? Have they ALL sinned?
I think not.

By the grace of God, having lived a sinless life was possible for the Blessed Mother because she was spared from Original Sin.
Click to expand...
The Vatican wants you to believe that sin is just a stain and that this stain can be washed away with water. That’s not what we read in the Bible. The sin we received from Adam is judgment of condemnation. That means we all go to hell by default unless we are born-again spiritually.

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Therefore… ALL have sinned including Mary.

Luk 1:46
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

Luk 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
 
hasikelee said:
As it was explained to me, Mary was cleansed of all sin at the moment of conception.

She needed God, too, she just got an extra early dose of grace to be fit to bear God.
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That’s not what the Bible says.
 
Fidelis said:
Jesus was both fully God and fully man. To emphasize one of his natures over the other to preserve a pet theology has been the ruin of many heretics throughout the centuries.
Click to expand...
… and might I add to cause the existence of over 33,000 protestant denominations.
 
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