B
believers
Guest
Mary believed that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God. She believed God and that was counted unto her for righteousness.
- Status
H
hasikelee
Guest
So why did you say it’s not what the Bible says? Do you mean that the Bible did not explicitly describe her moment of salvation, or that the Bible claimed she was redeemed at another time?
B
believers
Guest
She was saved just like all other Jews. She believed in the Jesus as the Messiah. Any Jew confessing that Jesus is the Son of God was saved. The Gospel to the Jews was a bit different than the Gospel to Gentiles because Jesus had not been crucified.
The Jews only had to believe that Jesus was the Messiah as spoken of by the Prophets.
We as gentiles MUST believe that Jesus is the Christ who paid for our sins with His blood on the Cross, He died, and was risen.
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
Indeed it does.
“Hail Full of Grace, the LORD is with thee.” Luke 1:28
Full of Grace
God’s grace cleansed Mary of oringal sin at the moment of her conception so that the womb that bore Christ would be void of the stain of sin, and so that the prophesy of Genesis would be forfilled. Eve bore sin into the world. Mary, as the new Eve, bore redemption from sin. Eve was created free of sin. So was Mary. So that at the moment Mary declared “Be it onto me according to your word” she became Eve in the garden, except where Eve rejected God, Mary embraced God. If Mary had been a sinner, this would not have been possible, because she had to be completely free to make the choice, as Eve was.
E
estesbob
Guest
A great example of the problems of being shackled to sola scriptura. It is absurd to make profound theological assumptions based on on ones personal interpetation of two verses of scripture.
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
“Not all those who say unto me, “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom of Heaven.” Matthew 7:21
H
hasikelee
Guest
I am unfamiliar with that Biblical passage. Could you post the scripture where it tells us that Mary was saved like all other Jews?
B
believers
Guest
As I stated… it’s not in the Bible.
You have interpreted “Full of Grace” (which my Bible says “highly favoured”) to mean free from sin. That definitely not in the Bible.
My Bible also says in Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Grace came by Jesus NOT Mary.
B
believers
Guest
Let’s start here…
Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
B
believers
Guest
You’re right. Then it’s a good idea to get to know Him personally. You’re using that verse as if it can’t apply to you.
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
Your bible translates Luke 1:28 wrong
I never said grace came by Mary. I said that it came from God, and that by “filling” her with it, he had saved her from original sin.
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
It applies to you more then to me.
B
believers
Guest
Nope… I read it correctly. The Word of God says…
ALL HAVE SINNED. Now, if you want to say All have sinned except Mary… then that’s your choice. I choose to believe an all-knowing all-powerful creator who makes NO mistakes and is incapable of lying.
B
believers
Guest
Rom 14:4It applies to you more then to me.
Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant?
B
believers
Guest
The Bible never says God filled her with Grace and saved her. How exactly can she be saved when there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood?Your bible translates Luke 1:28 wrong
I never said grace came by Mary. I said that it came from God, and that by “filling” her with it, he had saved her from original sin.
C
Cleopas
Guest
Mary is a prime example of faith and obedience to God. She holds a unique place and function in the plan of God and the Incarnation. She should be honored accordingly. However, Concerning your statements below…
That is the context of the all of Romans 3:23 – all those born of Adam. The one and only exception to that is Christ via the virgin birth.
No, she is not bodily in heaven, but she, as all believers who have passed, is dead in Christ and awaiting the resurrection and subsequent transformation of the vile body like unto His glorious one.
However, even Jesus said that those who believe the gospel are blessed more than the mother whose paps gave Him suck.
Then God contradicts Himself. For He said through the prophet Isaiah that none sought after Him, and that all had gone out of the way. Even Peter says that all we like sheep have gone astray. That includes Mary, and every other single person born of Adam.
That is the context of the all of Romans 3:23 – all those born of Adam. The one and only exception to that is Christ via the virgin birth.
Then she needed not salvation, and humanity needed not a Savior – for mankind, via Mary, had already attained sinlessness before God both in nature and in conduct or attitude.
Really? Care to share any NT passages that confirm this?
No, she is not bodily in heaven, but she, as all believers who have passed, is dead in Christ and awaiting the resurrection and subsequent transformation of the vile body like unto His glorious one.
God gets accused for a lot of things in the name of religion and conviction.
Indeed, as she ought to be for her role in the incarnation. She indeed was blessed above all women, in being chosen for that honor of carrying and giving birth to the incarnate deity.
However, even Jesus said that those who believe the gospel are blessed more than the mother whose paps gave Him suck.
R
Rolltide
Guest
Well, translation can indeed be a tricky issue. BOTH wordings are technically correct in English, but neither really captures the original meaning of the Greek. The following is from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: The Gospel of Luke by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch:
**Full of grace: ** This is the only biblical instance where an angel addresses someone by a title instead of a personal name. Two considerations help to clarify its meaning. (1) The expression full of grace is rooted in Catholic tradition and traced to St. Jerome’s translation of this verse in the Latin Vulgate. Although fundamentally accurate, it lacks some of the depth of the Greek original. Luke could have described her with the words full of grace (Gk. pleres charitos) as he did of Stephen in Acts 6:8, yet here he uses a different expression (Gk. kecharitomene) that is even more revealing than the traditional rendering. It indicates that God has already “graced” Mary previous to this point, making her a vessel who “has been” and “is now” filled with divine life. (2) Alternate translations like “favored one” or “highly favored” are possible but inadequate. Because of the unparalleled role that Mary accepts at this turning point in salvation history, the best translation is the most exalted one. For God endowed Mary with an abundance of grace to prepare her for the vocation of divine motherhood and to make her a sterling example of Christian holiness (CCC 490-93, 722).
- Gabriel’s declaration points in the direction of Mary’s Immaculate Conception. According to Pope Pius IX’s 1854 definition Ineffabilis Deus, Luke’s Annunciation narrative is an important indicator of Mary’s lifelong holiness. God is her “Savior” (1:47) in the most perfect way possible: he sanctified Mary in the first instance of her conception and preserved her entirely from sin and even from the inclination toward sin that we experience.
B
believers
Guest
Anyway… Mary was blessed but she can’t save you. She can’t do anything for you. It’s all about Jesus. He died for you.It applies to you more then to me.
R
Rolltide
Guest
By the way, Cleopas, nice to see another person from Bama on here! 
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
You fail to understand that what you are interupting it to mean is far different then what was ment when it was written. Not to mention that your reading the English translation which makes it that much more difficult to explain to you that what the english says is not the same as what the Greek says. When the Greeks use the word we translate as “all” they DO NOT mean literaly every single person.
And I know the all-knowing all-powerful creator is not bound into a single book nor to your incorrect beliefs. God makes no mistakes and how dare you imply that My Mother and Queen’s immaculate conception is somehow a mistake.
- Status