All living things have souls

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puzzleannie said:
Thomas Aquinas
no repeat, no they do not have rational eternal human souls, they have vegetative of animal souls which die when the organism dies. If it is alive it has a soul, that is what life means. No those plant and animal souls do not survive after death. It has been stated and restated here, what is the problem?
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There’s a better way to express the Essence of God in nature than to position that plants and animals have souls of some reduced form.
 
Barbkw said:
There’s a better way to express the Essence of God in nature than to position that plants and animals have souls of some reduced form.
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How does the idea that plants and animals have mortal souls detract from our ability to express anything about God?
 
It seems to be a question of terminology. There is no doubt that the simplest living organisms are radically different from highly complex inorganic molecules. They have a drive to survive which was described by Bergson as the “elan vital” which reveals a primitive form of consciousness.
 
davidv said:
How does the idea that plants and animals have mortal souls detract from our ability to express anything about God?
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Well…because I eat them, both plant and animal.

And they eat each other, at will.
 
"I answer that, To seek the nature of the soul, we must premise that the soul is defined as the first principle of life of those things which live: for we call living things “animate,” *i.e. having a soul], and those things which have no life, “inanimate.” " - Thomas Aquinas
 
Tietjen said:
So, did you pose the question to classify who was Gnostic? My question to you is… if you do not believe that all living creatures have souls, where and how did you draw this conclusion?

Let’s be plain here. I’m not questioning whether or not animals and plants go to heaven. I am simply questioning your apparent belief that living animals and/or plants do not possess a finite soul. That is, a soul which ceases to exist after physical death.

As a side note… I do not believe that the Church has specifically given an answer to this question; nor have I seen evidence in scripture that is contrary to living creatures (outside of humanity) having souls. If you have or if you know where I might find Church doctrine that says that a living animal or plant does not have a soul, please share it.
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In the original post I honestly was reading quick questions email, as stated, was startled by a thought of prokaryotic souls temporal or eternal. I have read extensively on the subject, but it has been awhile. I found the catholic encyclopedia article on the gnostics in a folder downloaded in 2000.I posted the gist of that article. I have not thought about scriptural or church doctrine yet. if i think of anything I’ll let you know. thanks for your reply.

peace
 
Barbkw said:
There’s a better way to express the Essence of God in nature than to position that plants and animals have souls of some reduced form.
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Look at it from the other direction: Humans have a superior, and eternal soul. If a plant has no soul, how does it repair itself if injured? If a dog has no soul, how can you train it?
 
hazcompat said:
In the original post I honestly was reading quick questions email, as stated, was startled by a thought of prokaryotic souls temporal or eternal. I have read extensively on the subject, but it has been awhile. I found the catholic encyclopedia article on the gnostics in a folder downloaded in 2000.I posted the gist of that article. I have not thought about scriptural or church doctrine yet. if i think of anything I’ll let you know. thanks for your reply.

peace
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Scripture (New Jerusalem Bible)

Genesis 2:7 Yahweh God shaped man from the soil of the ground and blew the breath of life into his nostrils, and man became a living being.

Isn’t it the breath of God that creates the soul. We are all of the earth (inanimate) and of the breath of God(animate).

peace
 
Tertullian: Treatise on the soul.
…"It is the soul which Christ came to save; it is the soul which He threatens to destroy in hell; it is the soul (or life) which He forbids being made too much of; it is His soul, too (or life), which the good Shepherd Himself lays down for His sheep. It is to the soul, therefore, that you ascribe the supremacy; in it also you possess that union of substance, of which you perceive the mind to be the instrument, not the ruling power.

Peace
 
Barbkw said:
Well…because I eat them, both plant and animal.

And they eat each other, at will.
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Why does this interfere with our knowledge of God?

Are you assuming that vegatative and animal souls are the same as the human soul?
 
hazcompat said:
Tertullian: Treatise on the soul.
…"It is the soul which Christ came to save; it is the soul which He threatens to destroy in hell; it is the soul (or life) which He forbids being made too much of; it is His soul, too (or life), which the good Shepherd Himself lays down for His sheep. It is to the soul, therefore, that you ascribe the supremacy; in it also you possess that union of substance, of which you perceive the mind to be the instrument, not the ruling power.

Peace
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Tertullian was speaking to those who understood that he was referring to the human soul. This shouldn’t be confused with the souls of plants or animals. It’s kind of like if I said, “The cars outside aren’t working” to a visitor at my home. The odds are fairly certain that he will understand that I am specifically speaking of the cars on my property and not every car that happens to be outside all over the planet. Tertullian’s audience knew that he was speaking of the human soul.
 
hazcompat said:
Scripture (New Jerusalem Bible)

Genesis 2:7 Yahweh God shaped man from the soil of the ground and blew the breath of life into his nostrils, and man became a living being.

Isn’t it the breath of God that creates the soul. We are all of the earth (inanimate) and of the breath of God(animate).

peace
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Yes, however if you look at Gen 2:7 you can see the words “nephesh chayah” which translates as “living soul” when speaking of man. Then in Gen 1:30 the same words are used, “nephesh chayah,” when speaking of the souls of animals. “Ruach,” the Hebrew term for “spirit” (and also for “breath,” as the indicator of life), is also applied to both humans and animals in Ecclesiastes 3:21.
 
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