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Lucy107
Guest
Heh.
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Lucy107
Guest
It’s how it is not rarely preached, though.
“You’re supposed to be convinced of the veracity of the Church’s teachings by examining this historical, textual, sociological, political, and scientific data.”
Like that other poster who took the historiographic approach and when I didn’t comply with it, accused me of stupidity by using a $10 word.
Sometimes I get the impression that even Catholicism is becoming more and more something that only the materially well-situated and well-educated can understand and afford.
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Sure, berate me for using the word “trick” inordinately, then you turn around and refer to what “Moses did” as “magic.”
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Not “becoming,” Lucy and certainly not “only.” Paul caught on very well – the invitation to the wedding feast is going out to ALL without exclusion.
See also…
youtu.be/3XGOJqIMwwk
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Aloysium
Guest
We grow in Christ who sits at the right hand of the Father,
and thus share in the Love that is the Trinity, whereby all has been brought into and is maintained in creation,
by loving God, again who is Love itself, above all else,
loving one’s neighbours as oneself,
following God’s commandments, which make us loving beings,
repenting, meaning we go beyond our usual mind and have a change of heart when we fail at love,
praying,
contemplating the teachings of the church,
participating in the mass and
the sacraments.
That is within the reach of all.
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Aloysium
Guest
Take home message: no preconceived notions if someone sees the world as you see it.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Thomas Paine always had a problem with any authority other than his own. He invented himself as an authority on all things theological, even to knowing the mind of God and to believing God would never have had anything to do with Christians or Jews, but that God had revealed through common sense what little it was necessary to know to the great diviner … Thomas Paine.
Considerable hubris there.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Sour grapes that you can’t find claims of miracles and prophecy fulfilled in Buddhism?
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oldcelt
Guest
Perhaps. Or maybe it looks like hubris because he had the nerve to defy others who claimed to know the absolute truth. There were/are so many who make this claim that Paine had plenty of targets for his writings.
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oldcelt
Guest
I started from the same base as your current faith. It has been a long journey to reach the place I now stand.
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Bahman
Guest
Keep it up.
I started from the same base as your current faith. It has been a long journey to reach the place I now stand. 
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Well, at least you are still standingKeep it up.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
And became a target in his turn.
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oldcelt
Guest
Undeniably true. Those with unorthodox ideas are generally going to draw major fire. However he was a major inspiration to the founding fathers of the US.
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rossum
Guest
Your “truest” is meaningless. A path might be easier or more direct, but as long as it reaches the summit then it is “true”.
As Lucy has pointed out, you are talking about something about which you lack sufficient knowledge. That is leading you into error. The Buddha performed miracles: Miracles of Gautama Buddha. Buddhism also has prophecies, about the future Buddha, the Maitreya, and about the future Buddhahood of various figures in the Buddha’s life.
If that is a true prophecy: “Heaven … shall pass away,” then the promise of an eternal heaven in Christianity is false. If the promise is true then the prophecy is false. An eternal heaven cannot “pass away”. I suggest that you do some more work to explain this point.
rossum
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Not necessarily. As you have already conceded elsewhere, things change. There may be a true path, as opposed to the truest path, but if obstacles on the true path cause one to stumble, one might fall … and that could be a fatal fall since things do change.
Where you are least likely to fall is the truest path.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
The source you cite for Buddha’s miracles is a peculiar source. It starts out by having the Buddha say concerning miracles, “…I dislike, reject and despise them.” That would most likely be because he could not perform them, and you have given precious little documentation that he did. Jesus, on the other hand, values miracles because they show that with faith in him all things are possible.
“Heaven and earth shall pass away” clearly refers to the sky, not the heaven Jesus promised us if we follow him as we ought. I suggest you do some more serious reading in Christian theology.
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Lucy107
Guest
Uh. It looks like you can’t understand that someone doesn’t put much value on miracles and prophecies.
If I’d see someone walk on water, or levitate, or magically heal wounds, or prophesize things, etc., I am quite sure I would not be impressed.
Because I do not think that miracles and prophecies are signs of divinity or spiritual advancement.
I am impressed though when someone can get up early in the morning, do their morning religious duties, diligently work the whole day according to their state, do their evening religious duties, go to bed, and again the same the next day, and do so for years, consistently, in sunshine or in rain, healthy or sick, hungry or well-fed, when free or when oppressed, come rain or highwater.
Now this is admirable!
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Lucy107
Guest
In some Eastern religions (such as in some schools of Buddhism and in some schools of Hinduism), there is characteristically little value placed on miracles and prophecies.
In those schools, the abilities to perform miracles and prophecies are seen as accidental side-effects of one’s spiritual practice, and are not deemed as necessary for spiritual attainment, nor are they deemed to be a valid measure of spiritual attainment.
Sometimes, they are even deemed to be detrimental to or distracting from one’s actual spiritual regimen.
Some people will even say that miracles and prophecies are “stuff to impress the naive massess,” but that have no value beyond that.
Miracles and prophecies can indeed be very impressive, but the vital issue when it comes to spirituality is to keep one’s spiritual practice alive and progressing, on a day-to-day basis, no matter what life circumstances one is facing.
In those schools, the abilities to perform miracles and prophecies are seen as accidental side-effects of one’s spiritual practice, and are not deemed as necessary for spiritual attainment, nor are they deemed to be a valid measure of spiritual attainment.
Sometimes, they are even deemed to be detrimental to or distracting from one’s actual spiritual regimen.
Some people will even say that miracles and prophecies are “stuff to impress the naive massess,” but that have no value beyond that.
Miracles and prophecies can indeed be very impressive, but the vital issue when it comes to spirituality is to keep one’s spiritual practice alive and progressing, on a day-to-day basis, no matter what life circumstances one is facing.
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Lucy107
Guest
I’ve known some self-identified atheists who claimed to have been Christians (or specifically Catholics) in their past, but that they have left it behind.
In all those cases, even I, with my limited knowledge of Christian doctrine and scriptures, discovered that they had limited knowledge of Christian doctrine.
For example, I once caught one such now self-identified atheist who claimed to be a devout Catholic in the past, who didn’t know what “proper formation of conscience” was about.(!)
I’ve noticed a common pattern in many people who are vocal about leaving behind a particular religion, whether the religion they have left behind was Christianity, Buddhism, or Vaisnavism: they have a relatively poor knowledge of that religion’s doctrine and practices. (Even though these people had sometimes held positions of some power and responsibility in those religions (like teachers or secretaries).
So I’m rather skeptical about those who claim to have left behind a particular religion.
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