"All truth is relative" = an absolute truth: Why?

[rossum]

The source you cite for Buddha’s miracles is a peculiar source. It starts out by having the Buddha say concerning miracles, “…I dislike, reject and despise them.”

The source is correct.

That would most likely be because he could not perform them

You are making incorrect assumptions, due to insufficient knowledge perhaps. You would do well to read the original: Kevatta sutta (Digha Nikaya, 11).

You have talked about signposts on the path. This is one of the signposts: “When you reach this point you will see a turning off to the side. Do not follow that turning as it will lead you astray and make it more difficult for you to reach the summit.”

Performing miracles is a distraction. Time spent doing miracles is time not spent meditating.

It is an error to apply Christian assumptions to Buddhism. The two religions are very different. The desire to perform miracle is just another desire to be overcome.

rossum

 

[oldcelt]

I’ve known some self-identified atheists who claimed to have been Christians (or specifically Catholics) in their past, but that they have left it behind.
In all those cases, even I, with my limited knowledge of Christian doctrine and scriptures, discovered that they had limited knowledge of Christian doctrine.

For example, I once caught one such now self-identified atheist who claimed to be a devout Catholic in the past, who didn’t know what “proper formation of conscience” was about.(!)

I’ve noticed a common pattern in many people who are vocal about leaving behind a particular religion, whether the religion they have left behind was Christianity, Buddhism, or Vaisnavism: they have a relatively poor knowledge of that religion’s doctrine and practices. (Even though these people had sometimes held positions of some power and responsibility in those religions (like teachers or secretaries).

So I’m rather skeptical about those who claim to have left behind a particular religion.

Are you saying that you question my veracity? If so, I suggest you read all my posts.

 

[Lucy107]

It is an error to apply Christian assumptions to Buddhism. The two religions are very different.

The desire to perform miracle is just another desire to be overcome.

As is the desire to see a miracle.

I wonder what role miracles actually play in Catholicism.

It is conceivably possible to conflate miracle and mystery, or miracle and something that inspires awe.
I think it would be more pertinent to focus on specific examples and see where that gets us.

Are you saying that you question my veracity? If so, I suggest you read all my posts.

We’ll see!

 

[oldcelt]

As is the desire to see a miracle.

I wonder what role miracles actually play in Catholicism.

It is conceivably possible to conflate miracle and mystery, or miracle and something that inspires awe.
I think it would be more pertinent to focus on specific examples and see where that gets us.

We’ll see!

We certainly will.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Uh. It looks like you can’t understand that someone doesn’t put much value on miracles and prophecies.

If I’d see someone walk on water, or levitate, or magically heal wounds, or prophesize things, etc., I am quite sure I would not be impressed.

Because I do not think that miracles and prophecies are signs of divinity or spiritual advancement.

I am impressed though when someone can get up early in the morning, do their morning religious duties, diligently work the whole day according to their state, do their evening religious duties, go to bed, and again the same the next day, and do so for years, consistently, in sunshine or in rain, healthy or sick, hungry or well-fed, when free or when oppressed, come rain or highwater.

Now this is admirable!

You seem to think that God giving evidence of himself to inspire the world is less important than people giving evidence of being inspired by God. Oh well!

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Performing miracles is a distraction. Time spent doing miracles is time not spent meditating.

It is an error to apply Christian assumptions to Buddhism. The two religions are very different. The desire to perform miracle is just another desire to be overcome.

rossum

Performing miracles and prophecy is not a distraction, but a proof.

Christians do not desire to perform miracles. Where do you get that notion? Only God performs miracles. And miracles do overcome, yes, but what is wrong with being overcome with wonder at the power of God?

Anyone who does not want to be overcome is full of hubris and will not believe.

Might as well be an atheist. Or as you have said before in other threads, the gods can be safely ignored.

 

[Lucy107]

Performing miracles and prophecy is not a distraction, but a proof.

Proof of what exactly?

Christians do not desire to perform miracles. Where do you get that notion? Only God performs miracles. And miracles do overcome, yes, but what is wrong with being overcome with wonder at the power of God?

Anyone who does not want to be overcome is full of hubris and will not believe.

Well, if someone needs a miracle to be overcome with the power of God, then one is walking around with eyes and ears shut. And hasn’t read the Psalms either.

You seem to think that God giving evidence of himself to inspire the world is less important than people giving evidence of being inspired by God.

That’s your interpretation.
I find your outlook to be very foreign to mine.

 

[davidv]

Proof of what exactly?

Well, if someone needs a miracle to be overcome with the power of God, then one is walking around with eyes and ears shut.

This is one of the effects of sin - blindness and deafness.

And hasn’t read the Psalms either.

That’s your interpretation.
I find your outlook to be very foreign to mine.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Proof of what exactly?

Well, if someone needs a miracle to be overcome with the power of God, then one is walking around with eyes and ears shut. And hasn’t read the Psalms either.

I find your outlook to be very foreign to mine.

Lots of people walk around with their eyes and ears shut. You know the old saw, you sometimes have to hit a donkey over the head with a 2by4 just to get his attention. Miracles might be God’s way of getting a stubborn ***'s attention.

But even then … some asses are too mule headed to budge.

In which case their eyes and ears are truly shut and they haven’t read the Psalms.

“The fool in his heart says there is no God.” Psalms 14:1

 

[rossum]

Performing miracles and prophecy is not a distraction, but a proof.

Mohammed performed miracles and prophesied.

Are those miracles proof that Islam is true? Miracles are not proof, since you do not accept many miracles.

Mohammed was also a prophet, and you you do not accept Islam. Hence, prophecy is not a proof for you either.

Since you do not accept either miracles or prophecy as proof, why do you expect us to act differently?

rossum

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Mohammed performed miracles and prophesied.

Are those miracles proof that Islam is true? Miracles are not proof, since you do not accept many miracles.

Mohammed was also a prophet, and you you do not accept Islam. Hence, prophecy is not a proof for you either.

rossum

What miracles did Mohammed perform. Give your source, please. Thank you.

What prophecies did Mohammed make? Please give your source. Thanks!

The miracles and prophecies of Jesus are well documented in the gospels.

jesus.org/is-jesus-god/who-is-jesus/did-muhammad-perform-miracles-like-jesus-did.html

 

[Lucy107]

Since you do not accept either miracles or prophecy as proof, why do you expect us to act differently?

That too!

I’ve stopped counting how many times I’ve seen “Saving Private Ryan.” While this is a wonderful film in its own right, I watch it mostly for one reason: Pvt. Jackson. I find this kind of devotion so inspiring I wish I could have it myself.

I suppose it’s sad to have a fictional character like this as a role model, not to mention that even though this character was probably based on a real person, for the film, it was likely made more dramatic for artistic purposes.

Either way, I wish I could be like that. Have my mind focused on God, give proper credits to God, no matter what situation I am in. That must be wonderful – to always know one’s place and role like that, always knowing what to do, always at peace.

 

[Bahman]

Lots of people walk around with their eyes and ears shut. You know the old saw, you sometimes have to hit a donkey over the head with a 2by4 just to get his attention. Miracles might be God’s way of getting a stubborn ***'s attention.

But even then … some asses are too mule headed to budge.

In which case their eyes and ears are truly shut and they haven’t read the Psalms.

“The fool in his heart says there is no God.” Psalms 14:1

What a miracle can show mote than the fact that we are now aware of phenomena?

 

[rossum]

What miracles did Mohammed perform. Give your source, please. Thank you.

LMGTFY

rossum

 

[Aloysium]

. . . I wish I could be like that. Have my mind focused on God, give proper credits to God, no matter what situation I am in. That must be wonderful – to always know one’s place and role like that, always knowing what to do, always at peace.

It is a great wish!!

:twocents:

1. Let’s take the first part and apply it to what is happening here.
   You are understanding these words.
   Isn’t that simply, totally amazingly fantastic?
   What is that, that I can think? That I see the colors on the screen. Why colors? How come?
   Thank you Lord for all your wonders.
2. As to knowing one’s place: Suffer enough, and you will know it, irrefutably. You still want to know?
   Actually that’s why we’re here, because in the garden, when we had it all, we thought we could be gods without Him who is God. Here there is no doubt of our status.
3. What do we have to do?
   Charity (love) - to love Love above all and each other as we ourselves.

It’s actually not that hard to do when you have Jesus. (I know mentioning our Lord and Saviour is a total put-off for some people, but it’s true.)

The yearning is God calling us to grow ever more into that loving filial relationship that was meant for us and made possible through Jesus Christ.

To be acknowledged is the presence and impact of sin which drags us down as it appropriates what does not belong to us and should be given, refuses to obey and turns us from love.

It is a journey, a work in progress.

 

[Lucy107]

Performing miracles and prophecy is not a distraction, but a proof.

Another poster posted this elsewhere:

Saint Augustine (354-430), Bishop of Hippo (North Africa) and Doctor of the Church
Sermon 126, 4-5

Admire God’s wonderful works ; come out of your sleep. Are you only going to admire extraordinary miracles? But are they any greater than those that daily take place before your eyes? Are people astonished because our Lord Jesus Christ satisfied several thousand persons with five loaves (Mt 14,19f) and are not surprised that a few seeds are enough to cover the ground with abundant harvests? They are filled with wonder when they see our Savior change water into wine (Jn 2,19); isn’t it the same thing when rain goes through the roots of the vine? The author of both these miracles is the same…

/…/

 

[Lucy107]

It’s actually not that hard to do when you have Jesus. (I know mentioning our Lord and Saviour is a total put-off for some people, but it’s true.)

Well, my problem is that my idea (!) of Jesus currently has too much Jim Caviezel in it.
I haven’t figured out yet how to get past that.
No, I don’t think Mr. Caviezel can save me.

 

[tonyrey]

Well, my problem is that my idea (!) of Jesus currently has too much Jim Caviezel in it.
I haven’t figured out yet how to get past that.
No, I don’t think Mr. Caviezel can save me.

To acknowledge our limitations is the prelude to liberation…

 

[tonyrey]

What a miracle can show more than the fact that we are now aware of phenomena?

“Man is but a reed, the most feeble thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed. The entire universe need not arm itself to crush him. A vapor, a drop of water suffices to kill him. But, if the universe were to crush him, man would still be more noble than that which killed him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage which the universe has over him, the universe knows nothing of this.
All our dignity then, consists in thought. By it we must elevate ourselves, and not by space and time which we cannot fill. Let us endeavour then, to think well; this is the principle of morality.”

Pascal

 

[Aloysium]

Well, my problem is that my idea (!) of Jesus currently has too much Jim Caviezel in it.
I haven’t figured out yet how to get past that.
No, I don’t think Mr. Caviezel can save me.

I loved the movie.
I saw it once; I should see it again.
But, it hurts.
All the pain of all humanity in one man.
It was real; it is real.
One man; all mankind.
Each person in their pain, humiliation, loneliness, betrayed, robbed of all even of their own life.
Each of us existing within the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
When we harm another, that harm is to Him.
When we love, we love Him and become like Him
He is Love itself.
He takes upon Himself, in loving filial obedience to the Father, our sins,and our Karma if you will.
Through His death and resurrection, He as God and man, brings all our suffering, the death within us, to new life, a life eternal.
As man and God, He is the living Way, as you are a living person, the Path by which we, through love of the Father and each other, become like Him, become gods in the same relation that exists within the Trinity.
What makes us not like Christ is sin.
We are not the loving people we were meant to be.
We have chosen otherwise, and this earthly existence is the product of our having made ourselves gods, without He who is God, who is Love.
Amazing movie, too poignant for me.
It’s early and I’m off to work. That’s the best I can do for now to address your problem.