Allah and our God the same God?

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There is only** one name **under Heaven by which all
men must be saved. So if they dont have Jesus,
they dont have salvation right? If they dont have
salvation then according to Scripture they’re the children
of the devil, right?
So then that would mean that they worship a God of
their own making?
 
The Muslim god is a god who doesn’t exist, not any more than the Mormon god. Merely because both make appeals to what we all hold in common–the Old Testament–while redefining that God into something that is foreign to the Bible is NOT to hold to the same God.
 
So those of you whom are stating that allah and God Almighty are one in the same… do you agree or not that Roman Catholicism worships “one and the same” as the god of Islam?

Yes or no?
Differentiating between Allah and God is like differentiating between Deus and God. Allah is the Arabic term for God and Arab Christians use the word Allah.

Both Catholicism and Islam worship the same God, one worships Him more correctly then the other.

Do you think that Muslims adore the One True God?
 
It’s a good point. This view has a good deal of validity, with the current dominance of more “fundamentalist” theologies like Wahhabism in the Islamic world. Being a Muslim philosopher today (or a theologian, as Christians think of it) can be dangerous work with scant takers.
yes, i recall learning all of this in an islamic history class in college some time ago. the islamic world preserved the classical intellectual tradition during the so-called “dark ages” only to have its own enlightenment terminate in a dead end after having passed the torch onto the christian west. i guess benedict was describing the islam of today and not that of the philosophers you mentioned.
 
So those of you whom are stating that allah and God Almighty are one in the same… do you agree or not that Roman Catholicism worships “one and the same” as the god of Islam?

Yes or no?
why do i detect i’m about to walk into a trap? spidey sense tingling …
 
I think you’re having a hard time thinking philosophically, myfavoritmartin; you’re getting too caught up in the revealed theological differences of the religions of Christianity and Islam. It’s like this:

If God can be defined as, for instance, the “One, immortal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent un-created Creator of everything,” then yes, Christians and Muslims both believe in this God. Both would accept this simple definition of God.

This is NOT to say that differences do not emerge once you really get down to theological business – this is what makes the religion of Christianity different from the religion of Islam – but at this very simple level we can say truthfully that Christians and Muslims believe in the same God. Their simple philosophical – reason-based – definition of God is basically the same.
 
This is NOT to say that differences do not emerge once you really get down to theological business – this is what makes the religion of Christianity different from the religion of Islam – but at this very simple level we can say truthfully that Christians and Muslims believe in the same God. Their simple philosophical – reason-based – definition of God is basically the same.
this seems to fall short. Nostra Aetate does not discuss Islam as if it were discussing some basic natural theology, whatever that might be. This is not Fides et Ratio! We are talking about worship and adoration of the God of Abraham, submission to the divine decrees, reverence of Jesus and his mother, the tradition of the prophets, morality and the pursuit of holiness, etc.

in the peace of Christ.
 
this seems to fall short. Nostra Aetate does not discuss Islam as if it were discussing some basic natural theology, whatever that might be. This is not Fides et Ratio! We are talking about worship and adoration of the God of Abraham, submission to the divine decrees, reverence of Jesus and his mother, the tradition of the prophets, morality and the pursuit of holiness, etc.

in the peace of Christ.
Christianity, specifically Catholic Christianity, is the revealed religion – true Revelation from God. Islam is a Christian heresy, a confused and falsified version of the revealed religion. It’s like Arianism or any number of early Christian heresies (if not particularly “far gone”), except that the Church didn’t stamp this one out: it grew very big and developed.

Basically, they believe in our God but they reject His true Revelation to us in place of a largely bogus “revelation.” They think that our God, the God of Moses and Jesus, dictated the Koran to Mohammed as a kind of “Third Testament.” (The perceived similarity to Mormonism and some of the more extremely heretical forms of Protestantism in this respect and others is apt.)
 
They think that our God, the God of Moses and Jesus, dictated the Koran to Mohammed as a kind of “Third Testament.”
I wonder who really dictated the Qu’ran to Muhammad?

“And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.”

😉
 
CChristianity, is the revealed religion – true Revelation from God. Islam is a Christian heresy, a confused and falsified version of the revealed religion.
well, its not like Mohammad thought what he was saying was Christian, but ooops, he went off track. To identify Islam as a Christian heresy is not apt. Likewise on the Qur’an as a Third Testament.

But my real point was that when Granddad kneels down to pray, he is not praying to a philosophical definition of God, he may not know, and at that moment certainly doesn’t care what the philosophers say concerning God. He has a living relationship with the God of Abraham. He worships and adores the God of Abraham.

and Allah knows best, as they say.

in the peace of Christ.
 
How on earth would a non-Muslim evaluate such a thing? Do you listen to non-Christian judgments about which Christian theologies are more faithful to Scripture? Have you ever read or listened to anti-Christians such as Sam Harris trying to tell us what the Bible really means? They often do this and it’s offensive nonsense. How is it any different for us to do this to Muslims?

Edwin
No, I listen to what the Muslims say themselves. There are many commentaries available on the net. Scholars even at Al Azah. Also I read good scholars, one like David Cook "Understanding Jihad’ *** Prof of Religious Studies at Rice University.

I base my opinions on what Muslims say about themselves. Try following MEMRI TV. What are they saying here.

Also the Hadiths are on line.

I don’t agree with your view of moral equivalence at all.

Also please tell me where in the Bible there is a clear invocation to violence that can be interpreted that way as mainstream exegesis!

What about the life of Mohammed - do you find moral equivalence here in comparison to Jesus. Is this just a matter of interpretation? If I live my life following Mohammed example in all respects, what does my life look like? If I follow Jesus - what does my life look like?

The issue here is one of transparent truth and facts, not offended sensibilities.
 
I thought you might find this interesting - from the Catholic Aid Agency ‘Aid to the Church in Need’

members4.boardhost.com/acnaus/msg/2222.html

Also is radical Islam today closer or further from the original early Islam of Mohammed?

Considering the massive sweep of Islam across the middle east, north Africa into Spain etc not by conversion to the sword but by ‘invitation to Islam’, dhimmi conditions or jizya tax (this isn’t like tax as we know it!) it is hard to find justification in the belief that radical Islam ‘twists’ the ‘true Islam’ into something it was never meant to be.

It may be wonderful to delineate the philosophical view, that we have the same God, from the theological distinctions that say we don’t. Don’t you need both together to agree fully? I think its like two people saying they both know or ‘worship’ ‘Fred’ in that they agree that he is a human being, male and of a particular ethinicity. (The philosphical argument?) But is it enough, how many ‘Freds’ are there? Does a particular ‘Fred’ make a difference? I think the ‘particular Fred’ matters, my reason being that it matters greatly to our Christian brothers and sisters as described in the link above. Their God is my God and there is no other, their witness blows away any soft arguments for me. Unrestrained these are the actions and the theology of Islam.
 
the point of Nostra Aetate is not that we agree on a few philosophical prolegomena, but that the worship and adoration of the Muslim is for the God of Abraham and that the thrust of their belief and practice is widely recognizeable to the Christian, striving (jihad) for the same goal as the Christian.

But let’s make it more concrete and talk about the birth and spread of Islam. It seems fairly clear that Mohammad has a much better grasp of the word of God than do his contemporaries in Mekkah and his call to the tribes of Western Arabia to follow the God of Abraham and throw off the destructive practices of the day are prophetic. So prophetic in fact that he is run out of Mekkah by those who wish to maintain the status quo. When he moves to Medinah his interpretation of Islam begins to undo the tribal structure and envisions a community in which all are equal before God and persons are not set against one another on the basis of family/tribe (i.e., the Ummah). The institution of a new law that applies to all is revolutionary.

After Mohammad’s success and the return to Mekkah, then the question becomes how does one handle the often heavy handed and meddlesome activities of the two Empires that have been battling for control and influence in the region: the Byzantine’s and Persians. It is not as if the area were peaceful and suddenly these warlike Muslims picked a fight. The fight was already on. And Islam defeated not one, but two Empires.

War was part and parcel of the politics of the day. Muslims are simply being faulted for winning when the Christians wish they had. It is the losers whining. Moreover Christians had no trouble finding not merely justification but what they considered to be clear mandates from God in the Bible to wage war against Islam. This was not considered ‘twisting’ the Bible to their ends, but was the widely agreed sense of what the Bible meant.

Finally, the deeply political character of Mohammad and Islam cannot be separated from the reform of life that is envisioned by Islam. Mohammad is looking for a total change of life in Arabia and that will require by its very nature a new political vision. Jesus on the other hand sees himself as operating within an already existent Judaism and calling that Judaism to be true its God. This is a very different situation.

On a slightly different note, I will point out that suras 8 and 9, which contain some of the harshest statements against the “infidels” in the Qur’an do in fact have a very definite historical location. They are revelations that Mohammad received during the struggle against Mekkah (the battle of Badr and following). The great schools of legal interpretation have been very aware of this. First, none of the schools understood the command of God against the pagans to include Christians or Jews, and there was a great deal of debate over whether it included pagans outside of the conflict specifically addressed at Mekkah. While the Shafii school ultimately decided that it did apply to all pagans, the two most predominant schools outside the Arabian peninsula, the Hanafi and Maliki, argued that it did not apply beyond the immediate context of the conflict at Mekkah. Patricia Crone’s book, God’s Rule: Six Centuries of Medival Islamic Political Thought is a good resource here. In any case, the pagans were to be offered the same tax-situation that applied to Christians. By the standards of the day, this was fairly humane.

In any case, the attempts to read, e.g., suras 8 and 9 without reference to that historical context or the changed situation is a very distinct interpretive move on the part of the militants. To say that it is simply a command of God without historical limitation is NOT an obvious reading of the text for most Muslims.

and Allah knows best.
in the peace of Christ.
 
the point of Nostra Aetate is not that we agree on a few philosophical prolegomena, but that the worship and adoration of the Muslim is for the God of Abraham and that the thrust of their belief and practice is widely recognizeable to the Christian, striving (jihad) for the same goal as the Christian.
Yep.
War was part and parcel of the politics of the day. Muslims are simply being faulted for winning when the Christians wish they had. It is the losers whining.
I think this is the single best summing-up of what happened I have ever heard. Thank you! :rotfl:
 
well, its not like Mohammad thought what he was saying was Christian, but ooops, he went off track. To identify Islam as a Christian heresy is not apt. Likewise on the Qur’an as a Third Testament.
Not all Christian heresies have fit the general cookie-cutter example, ie., faithful Christian goes wrong. And viewing Islam as a Christian heresy has a lot of historical weight. Read Hilaire Belloc’s The Great Heresies for the case made.
 
You’d NEVER EVER hear ME say that I worship the God of ISLAM.
I would say, “I do worship the God of Islam, for the God of Islam is the God of Judaism, who is also the God of Christianity - for God is the Only Living God, the One God, all-powerful and all-merciful, the Creator of all things and the Judge of all humanity.”

We may not worship him the same, but he is one and the same, never changing, simple, and beyond all corporeal and spiritual comprehension. In fact, it is not man who found him but he who revealed himself to man. Why he revealed himself, I do not know, for God needs nothing at all to be happy - he is happy in himself. But I believe he called us to being out of mercy, for God is love.
 
the point of Nostra Aetate is not that we agree on a few philosophical prolegomena, but that the worship and adoration of the Muslim is for the God of Abraham and that the thrust of their belief and practice is widely recognizeable to the Christian, striving (jihad) for the same goal as the Christian.

War was part and parcel of the politics of the day. Muslims are simply being faulted for winning when the Christians wish they had. It is the losers whining. Moreover Christians had no trouble finding not merely justification but what they considered to be clear mandates from God in the Bible to wage war against Islam. This was not considered ‘twisting’ the Bible to their ends, but was the widely agreed sense of what the Bible meant.

t.
We can only agree on the wider philosphical aspects not the aspects of Revelation. They might ‘profess’ the faith of Abraham but they do not ‘possess’ the faith of Abraham. I do not recognise their ‘striving’ as the same goal at all. Islam wants a theocracy, a structure. Christianity does not seek that at all.

“That Muslims are faulted for winning when the Christians wish they had” !!! It is the losers whining? Just speechless really.
 
I would say, “I do worship the God of Islam, for the God of Islam is the God of Judaism, who is also the God of Christianity - for God is the Only Living God, the One God, all-powerful and all-merciful, the Creator of all things and the Judge of all humanity.”

QUOTE]

!!!🤷
 
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