Allah and our God the same God?

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SedesDomi said:
So, Muslims both worship the same God as Christians, and don’t worship the same God as Christians?
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Let me rephrase it.

The Jews believe that God is only 1 person… The Father.

Christians beleive that God is 3 persons in 1 God… Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 
Muslims today believe the myth that Muhammad introduced monotheism to the area around Mecca and Arabia in general. The truth is that Muhammad got tired of the Christians constantly preaching monotheism to him fellow Arabs, knowing in his heart, that they were correct in their criticism of Arab paganism.

There can be little doubt that Christians, in their evangelism of the are around Mecca, charged the Arabs with paganism and polytheism. Christians criticized those worshipping 260 pagan gods at the Kabah and offered Christianity as a far superior monotheistic religion. In his heart, Muhammad knew the Christians were right and had a better religion of monotheism.

But some Muslims today, are totally ignorant of the fact that monotheism was widely preached before, during and after the rise of Muhammad, by the Christians. It was a well known theology and the Arabs were familiar with it. Amazingly, today Muslims criticize as polytheists, the very one’s who taught Muhammad about monotheism! By the time Muhammad came along, the pagan Arabs were ripe for conversion to Monotheism because of the preaching of Christians.👍
 
It is clear, from a historical point of view, that Muhammad, as a youth participated in worshipping all the 360 pagan gods in the Kabah in Mecca which was owned and operated by the Quraish tribe to which Muhammad was member in good standing. As Muhammad grew up, he was influenced by Christians (monotheists) who condemned the polytheism at the Kabah.

At some point in Muhammad’s life, he was convinced by the Christians that Polytheism was wrong and sought to reject the 360 pagan gods he had grown up with. Muhammad was converted to the concept of monotheism through the influence and teachings of Christians. Being a proud “nationalistic cultural Arab”, bent on preserving his traditions, Muhammad, decided to “reform” his native pagan religion, rather than adopt a completely different religion like Christianity.

Muhammad took the top pagan god of the Kabah in Mecca (called Hubal and/or Allah) and chose it to be his new monotheistic god. This god was already considered the top god among other gods at the Kabah. Muhammad’s strategy was simple. Rather than converting all the Arab people to the monotheism of Christianity, Muhammad merely banished the other 359 pagan gods and chose the one remaining to be the one and only god… what Muslims refer to today as “Allah”.👍
 
Both Muslims and the Jews reject the Trinity so if they are worshiping the same God as Christians then they are probably only worshiping the Father.
 
e61iuser said:
So in other words, God says “My Name is YHWH, I am who am.”

Then Muslims say “I’ll call you… Bob!”.

Something like that?
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Actually, the word Allah is simply the Arabic term for “God”. 😉
 
SedesDomi said:
“AlIah” is also what God calls Himself, according to the Qur’an:
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If he revealed that as his proper name then he is not the Judeo-Christian God then. And by the way, “Abba” is another description, much like the way a son calls his father “Pappy”. The father’s name might be “Procorpio” but he will never write his name on an official form declaring his name to be “Pappy” to all the world. He will write down “Procorpio”.

Same principle applies here. If the One God wanted to reveal Himself to the world He would use one Name. He would not flip-flop from one Name to another. A revealed Name is a very holy thing in ancient cultures.
 
e61iuser said:
If he revealed that as his proper name then he is not the Judeo-Christian God then.
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God only speaks Hebrew?
And by the way, “Abba” is another description
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Names are most often descriptive. “William” is descriptive: it means “strong helmet.” “George” is descriptive: it means “farmer”. “Abba” is descriptive: it means “father.” YHWH is descriptive: it comes from the Semitic root “to be” (cf. “Ehyeh asher ehyeh.”). “Allah” and “Elohim” are descriptive: they come from the Semitic root “power”. “YHWH” is the ultimate Being/Becoming. “Allah” is the ultimate Power/Presence. The ultimate Being/Becoming can only be the ultimate Power/Presence.

Now, whether the Muslims correctly understand all the details of this Power/Presence/Being/Becoming, is another issue.
Same principle applies here. If the One God wanted to reveal Himself to the world He would use one Name. He would not flip-flop from one Name to another.
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If God can be three Persons, then surely the number of Names He can reveal to us, need not be limited to one.
 
SedesDomi said:
God only speaks Hebrew? Names are most often descriptive. “William” is descriptive: it means “strong helmet.” “George” is descriptive: it means “farmer”. “Abba” is descriptive: it means “father.” YHWH is descriptive: it comes from the Semitic root “to be” (cf. “Ehyeh asher ehyeh.”). “Allah” and “Elohim” are descriptive: they come from the Semitic root “power”. “YHWH” is the ultimate Being/Becoming. “Allah” is the ultimate Power/Presence. The ultimate Being/Becoming can only be the ultimate Power/Presence.

Now, whether the Muslims correctly understand all the details of this Power/Presence/Being/Becoming, is another issue.

If God can be three Persons, then surely the number of Names He can reveal to us, need not be limited to one.
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Not unless Allah also means “I am who am” in Arabic as well as Hebrew. Does it?
 
e61iuser said:
Not unless Allah also means “I am who am” in Arabic as well as Hebrew. Does it?
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“Ultimate Being/Becoming” or “YHWH” would correspond to the one of the 99 Names of Allah in Arabic, “Al-Hayy”. Notice that “Yahweh” and “Al-Hayy” are linguistically related
Concerning Yahweh: The form is doubtless derived from the verb hayah (hawah), “to be or become,” as an imperfect either of the simple or causative species, differentiated as a proper name from the imperfect of the verb.
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Concerning Al-Hayy, which comes from the Arabic “H-Y-Y”:
From the three letter root h-y-y, which has the following classical Arabic connotations:
to live, to be living
to become apparent, distinct
to animate, to revive
to vitalize, to call into being
to be whole, sound
to call, summon, invite, hasten
This name is used in the Qur’ân. For example, see 2:255
The attributes of al-Hayy and al-Qayyûm are often used to together, with al-Hayy signifying the attribute of ever-lasting life, and al-Qayyûm signifying the attribute of self-existing life. Thus, the attributes of al-Hayy and al-Qayyûm express two aspects of the One Life.
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SedesDomi said:
“Ultimate Being/Becoming” or “YHWH” would correspond to the one of the 99 Names of Allah in Arabic, “Al-Hayy”. Notice that “Yahweh” and “Al-Hayy” are linguistically related
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All right. As long as you specifically guarantee that Allah means “I am who am” then I can agree with you. Linguistic possibilities and language translations aside, it is the meaning behind the word that gives it substance.
 
Here is a long thread on this topic. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=80349

Here is a snippet from Lumen Gentium (similar to passage in catechism)…
  1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways. There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.
And Paul stated in Acts 17:23 For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you

There seem to be two camps on this.
  1. The first follows St. Paul’s lead and says if someone worships one god who they acknowledge to be the All-powerful Creator and since we believe there is indeed only One God, they must also be worshipping The One God (by default). This same camp would say that Muslims are ignorant of the fullness of truth and their image of God is very skewed, but still the One Creator of all.
  2. The second camp looks at the attributes of the professed deity and compares them with the attributes of our God and concludes that they must not be the same.
Who is correct? Only God knows. Do the current Muslims believe they are worshipping the One God Creator of all, the God of Abraham? They do believe so. That is what they profess. From God’s perspective (dare I presume) that may be God’s way of drawing good (muslims worshipping Him) out of evil (Mohammed inventing the Quran after being visited by, perhaps, a demon calling himself Gabriel). This is an oversimplification, but we do not know the mind of God. We simply don’t know the extent of God’s mercy.

The following was cut and paste from someone else, but I think it sums up nicely.

Again, for clarification. Muslims believe in the creator of this world, which happens to be One. So whoever believes that one creator created this world, is worshipping the only God THEORETICALLY (not theologically). The Church says we worship the same God because Islam is monotheistic, but the Church never says we worship the same God theologically, and the Church never said Muhammad is a prophet from God. Remember, EVEN SATAN believes in the God of Abraham. So if the Church says Muslims worship the God of Abraham, I don’t take it as an agreement on Muhammad being a prophet of God or Islam being truthful, because the Church admits as well that even Satan knows the Only God, the God of Abraham. Muhammed, inspired (perhaps) by satan, hijacked God and invented Islam. This is between God and Muhammed. Current devout Muslims are, in good faith, worshipping a misguided view of the One God.
 
SedesDomi said:
“Ultimate Being/Becoming” or “YHWH” would correspond to the one of the 99 Names of Allah in Arabic, “Al-Hayy”. Notice that “Yahweh” and “Al-Hayy” are linguistically related
Click to expand...
Basic Facts from History:
  1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
  2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. This Hubal was a moon god.
  3. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world:
About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo … a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
  1. The moon god was also referred to as “al-ilah”. This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning “the god”. Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as “al-ilah”.
5.“al-ilah” was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new religion in 610 AD.
  1. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as “Allah”.
  2. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name “Hubal” but retained the generic “Allah”.
  3. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.
  4. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god.
  5. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism.
Argue all you want, but the facts are indisputable and historical. Allah is Hubal, and Hubal is the arabic moon god from it’s polytheistic age. :bigyikes:
 
5pintLutheran said:
Basic Facts from History:
  1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
  2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. This Hubal was a moon god.
  3. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world:
About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo … a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
  1. The moon god was also referred to as “al-ilah”. This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning “the god”. Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as “al-ilah”.
5.“al-ilah” was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new religion in 610 AD.
  1. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as “Allah”.
  2. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name “Hubal” but retained the generic “Allah”.
  3. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.
  4. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god.
  5. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism.
Argue all you want, but the facts are indisputable and historical. Allah is Hubal, and Hubal is the arabic moon god from it’s polytheistic age. :bigyikes:
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Im with you. In no way is the Muslim Allah the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
 
english_guy said:
Hello one and all,
Can someone enlighten me?,I would like to know if the Muslim’s Allah is the same God as ours but under another name?What I am trying to say is are they the same?I ask this question with great respect as I do not wish to offend anyone,Catholic or Muslim.I do hope you can help as this has puzzled me for a long while.
God Bless,
Mick.
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Absolutely not. Islam professes that it is an Abrahamic religion. However historically, every one who has taken Comparative Mythology knows that is simply not historically true. Islam developed from the Arabic moon-god cult. The Kabah was the temple of the moon god, where Al-Ilah, and 359 other gods were worshiped, also. Al-Ilah was a phase of the moon god. There was a long developmental period toward first monolaterism, then monotheism, just as there was in Hebrew culture. The Qu’ran never defines Allah because it is assumed in it that the reader is already familiar with the moon god.

Yahweh Sabaoth had a completely different developmental origin.

The faith assertion in Islam is that they are the same. In fact, archaeologists and cultural historians know they have totally separate developmental histories. It’s a pleasant fiction.
 
The Catechism states that we worship the same God.

Infallible or not the Catechism is a compendium of Church teachings and as such we owe it a level of assent.

I will trust the teaching of the Church on this one and say yes, we do indeed worship the same God as the Muslims. Allah is merely the Arabic word for God; I might be wrong but I believe the Mozarabic Catholic rite might actually use it in their liturgy.

In any case I trust Blessed Pope John Paul the Great on this matter.
 
dranzal said:
Here is a long thread on this topic. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=80349

Here is a snippet from Lumen Gentium (similar to passage in catechism)…
  1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways. There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.
And Paul stated in Acts 17:23 For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you

There seem to be two camps on this.
  1. The first follows St. Paul’s lead and says if someone worships one god who they acknowledge to be the All-powerful Creator and since we believe there is indeed only One God, they must also be worshipping The One God (by default). This same camp would say that Muslims are ignorant of the fullness of truth and their image of God is very skewed, but still the One Creator of all.
  2. The second camp looks at the attributes of the professed deity and compares them with the attributes of our God and concludes that they must not be the same.
Who is correct? Only God knows. Do the current Muslims believe they are worshipping the One God Creator of all, the God of Abraham? They do believe so. That is what they profess. From God’s perspective (dare I presume) that may be God’s way of drawing good (muslims worshipping Him) out of evil (Mohammed inventing the Quran after being visited by, perhaps, a demon calling himself Gabriel). This is an oversimplification, but we do not know the mind of God. We simply don’t know the extent of God’s mercy.

The following was cut and paste from someone else, but I think it sums up nicely.

Again, for clarification. Muslims believe in the creator of this world, which happens to be One. So whoever believes that one creator created this world, is worshipping the only God THEORETICALLY (not theologically). The Church says we worship the same God because Islam is monotheistic, but the Church never says we worship the same God theologically, and the Church never said Muhammad is a prophet from God. Remember, EVEN SATAN believes in the God of Abraham. So if the Church says Muslims worship the God of Abraham, I don’t take it as an agreement on Muhammad being a prophet of God or Islam being truthful, because the Church admits as well that even Satan knows the Only God, the God of Abraham. Muhammed, inspired (perhaps) by satan, hijacked God and invented Islam. This is between God and Muhammed. Current devout Muslims are, in good faith, worshipping a misguided view of the One God.
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👍
 
english_guy said:
Hello one and all,
Can someone enlighten me?,I would like to know if the Muslim’s Allah is the same God as ours but under another name?What I am trying to say is are they the same?I ask this question with great respect as I do not wish to offend anyone,Catholic or Muslim.I do hope you can help as this has puzzled me for a long while.
God Bless,
Mick.
Click to expand...
Someone once argued with me, that no: God is not the same for Islam, but for Jews and Christians, yes.

If God is the same both for Islam, and Christianity, then a problem of God’s character arises. The character of God among Muslims, is different than the character of God, for Christians, and Jews. Among Muslims, God approves of much, that the God both of Jews, and Christians, would disapprove. Although Jesus is The Alpha, and The Omega, he is reduced to a prophet both among Muslims, and Jews; however, among Muslims, it is acceptable to interpret scriptures according to what is written most recently, e.g.: once Islam was peaceful, then in the later years of Muhammed, war was the way. How is this conflict resolved within Islam? War came later and therefore, peace may be expressed as the way of Islam, but only such dishonesty is acceptable when proselytizing infidels; otherwise, the way of Islam, is what we are given last in Mohammed’s life, war. Jews do not interpret scripture this way, but the argument is against God being the same of Christians, and Jews, rather than the same. This method of interpreting scripture, includes their view of Mohammed as a prophet to be accepted above Jesus, as a prophet, because Mohammed of course, came after Jesus; nonetheless, Mohammed cannot be what Jesus is among Christians, God, and therefore, The Alpha, and The Omega. Were the God of Islam, the same God both of Christianity, and Jews, then how could God approve of the different views? Granted the matter of will is at hand, nonetheless, God’s approval is not based upon what we will, but upon what we do according to his will. This might be where the argument falls apart: God is the same; nonetheless, the will of those whom say, “I follow God.”, differentiates God’s character not only by the life we live, but the scriptures we read either of The Torah, and The Bible, or The Qu’ran.
 
I personally have trouble believing that the Islamic idea of God is the same god as our God. I mean, they deny belief in the Trinity so I am not sure if their god is the same god as our God. However, Jews also do not believe in the Trinity but yet they worship the same God as we do.
 
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