Allah causes death?

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hlgomez:
Here is a translation I got from “Muhammad, the illiterate prophet” thread. I’d like to begin another thread based on the above translation by beginning the question with “Is it God who causes death?”

Catholic theology explains that God is not the source or cause of death, nor is he happy with a death of a person.

The catechism further explains in # 605:

…Jesus recalled that God’s love excludes no one: “So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.” He affirms that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many”; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.

Pio
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Pio-
OK I am a bit confused …since when has death been a bad thing…dont peole always say “oh they are in a better place”, “they no longer are suffering” etc.
cathechism #1009Death is transformed by Christ. Jesus, the Son of God, also himself suffered the death that is part of the human condition. Yet, despite his anguish as he faced death, he accepted it in an act of complete and free submission to his Father’s will. The obedience of Jesus has transformed the curse of death into a blessing.
**#1007 **Death is the end of earthly life. Our lives are measured by time, in the course of which we change, grow old and, as with all living beings on earth, death seems like the normal end of life. That aspect of death lends urgency to our lives: remembering our mortality helps us realize that we have only a limited time in which to bring our lives to fulfillment: Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, . . . before the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
 
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**#1007 **Death is the end of earthly life. Our lives are measured by time, in the course of which we change, grow old and, as with all living beings on earth, death seems like the normal end of life. That aspect of death lends urgency to our lives: remembering our mortality helps us realize that we have only a limited time in which to bring our lives to fulfillment: Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, . . . before the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
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Hey Karin

That makes more sense

Does it say anywhere in there that Satan has the power to cause death…or is that power in the hands of God alone?
 
Before we go on further, let me explain that death in itself is the cause of sin. The origin of evil is Satan. God cannot be the source of Satan becoming evil. It will be a great contradiction of his goodness, for God created everything and “…it was good” (not evil) as Sacred Scripture tells us. Satan didn’t sin because God caused him to sin. Satan sinned thru his own freewill. This was done by his willful disobedience against God. God cannot be both the author of sin (which causes death) and life. Evil spirits and evil men create evil by themselves thru their own actions and freewill.
cathechism #1009
Death is transformed by Christ. Jesus, the Son of God, also himself suffered the death that is part of the human condition. Yet, despite his anguish as he faced death, he accepted it in an act of complete and free submission to his Father’s will. The obedience of Jesus has transformed the curse of death into a blessing.
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Note that Jesus "transformed the curse of death into a blessing."That literally means that Jesus triumphed over death which was man’s wages due to sin. Jesus ransomed us back to himself.

Let’s go back a little bit, you missed something important in #1006 of the catechism:

“It is in regard to death that man’s condition is most shrouded in doubt.” In a sense bodily death is natural, but for faith it is in fact “the wages of sin.”

See clearly that the wages of sin is death. It would not have befallen humanity if Adam and Eve didn’t sin.

Pio
 
Further, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

[2851](http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow()
In this petition, evil is not an abstraction, but refers to a person, Satan, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God. The devil (dia-bolos) is the one who “throws himself across” God’s plan and his work of salvation accomplished in Christ.

2852
“A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be "freed from the corruption of sin and death." Now “we know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.”

The Lord who has taken away your sin and pardoned your faults also protects you and keeps you from the wiles of your adversary the devil, so that the enemy, who is accustomed to leading into sin, may not surprise you. One who entrusts himself to God does not dread the devil. “If God is for us, who is against us?”

2853
Victory over the “prince of this world” was won once for all at the Hour when Jesus freely gave himself up to death to give us his life. This is the judgment of this world, and the prince of this world is “cast out.” “He pursued the woman” but had no hold on her: the new Eve, “full of grace” of the Holy Spirit, is preserved from sin and the corruption of death (the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of the Most Holy Mother of God, Mary, ever virgin). “Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring.” Therefore the Spirit and the Church pray: “Come, Lord Jesus,” since his coming will deliver us from the Evil One.

Pio
 
If I recall, this wasnt a debate.

The question of the topic has been answered. In Islam god does cause death.
 
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hlgomez:
Further, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

[2851](http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow()
In this petition, evil is not an abstraction, but refers to a person, Satan, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God. The devil (dia-bolos) is the one who “throws himself across” God’s plan and his work of salvation accomplished in Christ.

2852
“A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be "freed from the corruption of sin and death." Now “we know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.”

The Lord who has taken away your sin and pardoned your faults also protects you and keeps you from the wiles of your adversary the devil, so that the enemy, who is accustomed to leading into sin, may not surprise you. One who entrusts himself to God does not dread the devil. “If God is for us, who is against us?”

2853
Victory over the “prince of this world” was won once for all at the Hour when Jesus freely gave himself up to death to give us his life. This is the judgment of this world, and the prince of this world is “cast out.” “He pursued the woman” but had no hold on her: the new Eve, “full of grace” of the Holy Spirit, is preserved from sin and the corruption of death (the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of the Most Holy Mother of God, Mary, ever virgin). “Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring.” Therefore the Spirit and the Church pray: “Come, Lord Jesus,” since his coming will deliver us from the Evil One.

Pio
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God causes us to live. God causes us to die. He is all-powerful.
Satan cant make us do anything, let alone kill us.

In Christianity, God is all-powerful but it seems He’s sitting on the sidelines watching unhappily as Satan goes around causing death. Doesnt make sense. I guess its another mystery.

We can agreee to disagree
 
God causes us to live. God causes us to die. He is all-powerful.
Satan cant make us do anything, let alone kill us.

In Christianity, God is all-powerful but it seems He’s sitting on the sidelines watching unhappily as Satan goes around causing death. Doesnt make sense. I guess its another mystery.

We can agreee to disagree
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Faith101,

This is what you don’t understand, and later on you will come to understand. God “is not sitting on his sidelines watching unhappily as Satan goes around causing death.” Evil is everywhere isn’t it? Why does God doesn’t end this evil now? Is He the one causing it? Probably the god that you know is the one that causes evil. This is one of the errors of Islamic theology. But the God of the Christians doesn’t cause evil. He cannot tempt, nor does He tempt no one. Satan is the tempter, not God. He is the one that cause evil–not God. Christ Jesus, the God who became man, already undo the works of Satan 2000 years ago.

Death came into the world because of the envy of the Devil. Satan ruled in the world until Christ came to undo his works. Christ suffered, we suffer; Christ experienced death, we’re going to die; but He rose again on the third day–and that right there is the punchline (as Fr. John Corapi says). That right there is the victory of the Son of God against death. Death has no longer power over Him. He died so that He may defeat death, which was reigning in the world, thru His ressurection. This is the Christian faith. This is the Good News of our salvation. And as we are united with Him who rose from the dead, we too will rise with him as well.

Pio
 
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hlgomez:
Faith101,

This is what you don’t understand, and later on you will come to understand. God “is not sitting on his sidelines watching unhappily as Satan goes around causing death.” Evil is everywhere isn’t it? Why does God doesn’t end this evil now? Is He the one causing it? Probably the god that you know is the one that causes evil. This is one of the errors of Islamic theology. But the God of the Christians doesn’t cause evil. He cannot tempt, nor does He tempt no one. Satan is the tempter, not God. He is the one that cause evil–not God. Christ Jesus, the God who became man, already undo the works of Satan 2000 years ago.

Death came into the world because of the envy of the Devil. Satan ruled in the world until Christ came to undo his works. Christ suffered, we suffer; Christ experienced death, we’re going to die; but He rose again on the third day–and that right there is the punchline (as Fr. John Corapi says). That right there is the victory of the Son of God against death. Death has no longer power over Him. He died so that He may defeat death, which was reigning in the world, thru His ressurection. This is the Christian faith. This is the Good News of our salvation. And as we are united with Him who rose from the dead, we too will rise with him as well.

Pio
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The Devil tempts us. Agreed! But death does not lie in the hands of the Devil. What about Fatuma’s question? Did the devil kill Jesus peace be upon him since the devil causes death?

In all honesty, it doesnt make any sense to me. But again it doesnt have to…I’m a muslim…and this forum is making me realize more and more everyday what a blessing that is 🙂

Again, we can agree to disagree 🙂
 
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Faith101:
The Devil tempts us. Agreed! But death does not lie in the hands of the Devil. What about Fatuma’s question? Did the devil kill Jesus peace be upon him since the devil causes death?

In all honesty, it doesnt make any sense to me. But again it doesnt have to…I’m a muslim…and this forum is making me realize more and more everyday what a blessing that is 🙂

Again, we can agree to disagree 🙂
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This particular thread is getting very confusing, I agree! No Faith, the devil did not kill Jesus! He has no power over him.
 
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Booklover:
This particular thread is getting very confusing, I agree! No Faith, the devil did not kill Jesus! He has no power over him.
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Just to set it straight. The devil has the power to cause death to everyone except Jesus…God was responsible for that one…did i get it right?
 
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Faith101:
Just to set it straight. The devil has the power to cause death to everyone except Jesus…God was responsible for that one…did i get it right?
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Believe me, this whole thread is a real mess! It’s going to take a little bit to unravel this whole lot!

I’ll get back to you!

Vickie
 
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Booklover:
Believe me, this whole thread is a real mess! It’s going to take a little bit to unravel this whole lot!

I’ll get back to you!

Vickie
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thanks Vickie 🙂
 
The Devil tempts us. Agreed! But death does not lie in the hands of the Devil. What about Fatuma’s question? Did the devil kill Jesus peace be upon him since the devil causes death?

In all honesty, it doesnt make any sense to me. But again it doesnt have to…I’m a muslim…and this forum is making me realize more and more everyday what a blessing that is 🙂

Again, we can agree to disagree 🙂
Click to expand...
Faith101,

A misunderstanding of the Catholic faith. The devil didn’t kill Jesus, it is us who killed him (physical death) because of our sins. Thru sin death came into the world. All humanity has been in the power of death and the devil was the one who causes it, UNTIL Jesus overcame death thru his passion, death, and ressurection. Jesus has triumph over death thru his resurrection! Satan thought he won when he saw Jesus died, but when he saw Jesus rose again from the dead, he was furious and is now defeated–eternally speaking! Don’t confuse yourself.

I ask you questions:

Did God tempt Lucifer before he became Satan so that he would sin?
Did He also tempt man so that they would sin and die? Such that God is the author of death?

It seems that muslims view God as something who causes one to sin, like for Adam and Eve, such that death came into the world because God is the author of death? These is in sharp contradiction to Christianity who view God as all good.

Pio
 
I think it was sin that brought death to the world.😦
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Yes it was sin that brought death into the world. Sin separates us from God.

Satan, thru his disobedience and pride sinned against God, thus his death is eternal, meaning an eternal separation from God. And God could not be the author of sin and death because He is all good and wants only what is good for all his creatures. How blasphemous it is to say that God is the cause of death (eternal death) of Satan and of men! On the contrary, it is God’s creatures who is the cause of sin themselves thru their pride and disobedience–and eventually death came because of that.

Satan seeing that man was created in the image of God became envious. So he tempts man to sin so that man will go to his side in disobedience against God. Satan is the author of sin, and eventually death, not God Almighty. He is the prince of darkness (death), a murderer from the beginning, the father of lies. Man would be under the power of death for eternity (meaning eternal death–total separation from God) if not for Jesus Christ who come in the flesh to save us. It is an error to say that death has power over God. On the contrary, God himself made-man prove that He has power over it. He went thru it himself and triumph over it with His resurrection. This is the drama of our salvation.

Pio
 
hlgomez said:
Faith101,

A misunderstanding of the Catholic faith. The devil didn’t kill Jesus, it is us who killed him (physical death) because of our sins.
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I know for sure that i did not have a hand in the “death” of Jesus peace be upon him. Did you? What i am telling you is DEATH, like life, is an active process. Some being gives us life and some being takes it away…it just doesnt dissapear. Who is that being that took life away from Jesus Christ?
Thru sin death came into the world. All humanity has been in the power of death and the devil was the one who causes it, UNTIL Jesus overcame death thru his passion, death, and ressurection. Jesus has triumph over death thru his resurrection! Satan thought he won when he saw Jesus died, but when he saw Jesus rose again from the dead, he was furious and is now defeated–eternally speaking! Don’t confuse yourself.
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Death still occurs. Who is responsible for it? You are not answering the question.
Did God tempt Lucifer before he became Satan so that he would sin?
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Satan is part of creatures called Jinn. Jinn like mankind have free will. Satan used his free will to think that he is better than Adam and disobeyed God. That’s it!
Did He also tempt man so that they would sin and die? Such that God is the author of death?
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Again free will…satan tempted Adam and Eve.

God creates life and He takes it away. He is all-powerful. I never thought CHristians would question this quality of God!
It seems that muslims view God as something who causes one to sin, like for Adam and Eve, such that death came into the world because God is the author of death? These is in sharp contradiction to Christianity who view God as all good.

Pio
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You have tried to give Satan power that he does not have.

Thank you, yet again, for increasing my faith in Islam and may God guide you before He takes you from this earth.
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hlgomez:
Yes it was sin that brought death into the world. Sin separates us from God.

Satan, thru his disobedience and pride sinned against God, thus his death is eternal, meaning an eternal separation from God. And God could not be the author of sin and death because He is all good and wants only what is good for all his creatures. How blasphemous it is to say that God is the cause of death (eternal death) of Satan and of men! On the contrary, it is God’s creatures who is the cause of sin themselves thru their pride and disobedience–and eventually death came because of that.

Satan seeing that man was created in the image of God became envious. So he tempts man to sin so that man will go to his side in disobedience against God. Satan is the author of sin, and eventually death, not God Almighty. He is the prince of darkness (death), a murderer from the beginning, the father of lies. Man would be under the power of death for eternity (meaning eternal death–total separation from God) if not for Jesus Christ who come in the flesh to save us. It is an error to say that death has power over God. On the contrary, God himself made-man prove that He has power over it. He went thru it himself and triumph over it with His resurrection. This is the drama of our salvation.

Pio
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wow. You think God has power over death b/c He died? Glory be to God who is above all that you describe!

You know, when a Muslim hears that another person has died they are supposed to say “indeed we belong to Allah and indeed to Him is our return” We dont say “oh that darn devil has taken away my friend”

There is no power nor might save for God alone.
 
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Booklover:
I think it was sin that brought death to the world.😦
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This is my question.

Someone has just died somewhere in the world. Who is responsible for taking that person’s life? Is it God, the Devil, or completly in the hands of other human beings?
 
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hlgomez:
Here is a translation I got from “Muhammad, the illiterate prophet” thread. I’d like to begin another thread based on the above translation by beginning the question with “Is it God who causes death?”

Catholic theology explains that God is not the source or cause of death, nor is he happy with a death of a person.

The catechism further explains in # 605:

…Jesus recalled that God’s love excludes no one: “So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.” He affirms that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many”; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.

Pio
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Hi there

So who causes death according to Catholicism? Please give me the exact reference with page number to verify your claim. Beside what Catholics believe is irrelevent to us Muslims. Because Islan as abrogated all religions by default.

The irony of your absurd claim is that your belief is based on the cockamamie sotry of God sacrifying his son who died for the alleged sin of Adam.

Regards
Preacher
 
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