F
Faith101
Guest
thank you for the Bible verses
To your religion, and to me mine.
Glory be to God…anything besides Him is truly just a creation.
- Status
To your religion, and to me mine.
Glory be to God…anything besides Him is truly just a creation.
F
Faith101
Guest
Pio
With all due respect. Its really hard to convince a Muslim with this type of argument.
You say God is all merciful and will forgive sins ONLY through the murder of an innocent man.
I say God is all merciful, who forgives all sins.
Alhamdulilah for Islam.
and Jesus is 'abd Allah.
H
hawk
Guest
Is that a just God?
One who forgives if you ask?
Where is the justice in this?
Neither is there any justice in murdering a man.
But then Christ is not merely a man, and the payment of sin doesnt involve murder.
Rather God ever loving who has set the law, also ransoms us for this law.
Look at the creation story in the Quran, the question is, is there any need for the law?
No, there was no need, because there was no sin, because man loved God.
God creates the law, to demonstrate His love for us, through Jesus Christ.
For without the law, there would be no Christ.
Yet He knew from the start, that this was the only way to convince us of His love for us, a love that sets you free.
H
hlgomez
Guest
Faith101,
I’m shaking the dust from my feet. We will go on to the next person who is willing to hear the Gospels.
I offer prayers to the Divine Mercy that He may open your mind and heart, see with your eyes and hear with your ears the Good News.
Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.
Sicut erat in principio,
et nunc, et semper,
et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.
Pio
E
Eetaq
Guest
WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN IT? IN FORGIVING!?
We are CREATED with an INCLINATION to sinning, how is that fair?
You all believe that HUMANS ARE SOOO BAD that the o nly way to save them is to have God’s own son subjected to horrible torture, and yet you think its justice that we are given this trial of the Earth?
Of course it isn’t, we are all doomed to make mistakes, and if God wasn’t one who is infinitely forgiving that we would be thinking that murdering demi-gods is the only way to save ourselves.
The creation story in the qur’an? Like when ADAM ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT??? THE EXACT SAME ONE IN THE BIBLE??? Adam was given a law because God trusted him, but Adam betrayed that trust.
There is no original sin, however, but thats just because God IS a just god and DOESN’T make us pay for the sin’s of our fathers.
Only way to convince us of his love for us. Uhhhmmm, maybe YOU, but for the muslims out there we dont need to view the death of a great prophet in a horrible torturous manner to believe that God loves us, his blessings are bountiful and his mercy is infinite, and that is enough.
F
fatuma
Guest
It’s the greatest love to forgive without any reason what so ever but you simply do it because you want someone to be close to you?
wa salam
wa salam
B
Booklover
Guest
If there were no original sin we would all be sinless! Aren’t we all sinners? Remember that Adam and Eve were naked in the garden and didn’t realize it until they sinned! They were totally innocent until they sinned and their eyes were opened and they went and made coverings for themselves with fig leaves.
R
r.gonzales
Guest
in islam, not everyone who falls into a sin is considered a sinner. just like not everyone tells a lie is automatically deemed a liar and not every one who falls into disbelief is automatically declared a disbeliever.
this concept of the original sin, if i’m not mistaken, states that we are all born sinners. now tell me, what sin has a new born child committed in order to be considered a sinner?
if you say that it’s because of what our parents adam and eve did, then you’re saying that all of mankind has to bear the burden of the sins of two people, sins they didn’t even commit. not very fair or just, if you ask me. in islam, no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another and everyone is accountable for their own actions.
B
Booklover
Guest
If he’s not a sinner, then what is he? Anyone who sins is a sinner.
Of course a new born child has committed no sins! He hasn’t reached the age of reason where he can tell good from bad. But we are all born with the power to sin.
H
hlgomez
Guest
Mr. Gonzales doesn’t know how to recognize the relationship between sin and sinner. Probably, one who sins in Islam is still called righteous?
So a black color may not be automatically be black. It can still be white?
This is what we call as concupiscince–the effect of original sin.
Pio
F
Faith101
Guest
A love that is based on a sacrifice that was not needed is not a love that sets you free…its a love that binds you through feeling you owe someone something.
what you believe happened to Jesus Christ is murder. you believe that people killed him for no just cause except that they didnt like what they heard.
Submit yourself to God, and ask Him to forgive you, and He will forgive you. He is the most merciful…no bloodshed needed
H
hlgomez
Guest
Faith101,
If you love somebody you will even sacrifice your own life to save the person. That is the love that doesn’t require any merits whatsoever.
If your beloved children are in the path drowning in the sea, would you not save them even if you don’t know how to swim? Would you rather watch them die and do nothing to save them?
Or if your child is being hostaged by a criminal and the criminal is threatening to kill the child, would you not rescue the child even if it’s dangerous for you to do?
Pio
H
hlgomez
Guest
Yes He is the most merciful but how do you know that He forgives you?
Pio
H
hlgomez
Guest
Yes He is the most merciful but how do you know that He forgives you? Did you hear God saying to you that your sins are forgiven?
Pio
F
Faith101
Guest
He tells us and we trust Him
Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! **Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful ** (Quran 39:53)
H
hlgomez
Guest
HOW do you know that your sins are forgiven?
Pio
F
Faith101
Guest
If i knew that i am definitly going to heaven no matter what i do…then dear sir…life would be a complete bore and waste of time. Its like a class that you really dont care about…which is really hard…but there is no grade at the end and it wont have any impact on your life/career etc. why would you even try
I am told by Allah, as recorded in the Quran…that certain people after their death “shall have no fear and neither will they grieve” …if you are interested, you can search the Quran online for the adjectves that describe these people. If you read the Quran, you wil be able to better appreciate a Muslim’s perspective on this issue.
All i do is try my best to be the best Muslim that i can possibly be. and if i mess up, all i have to do is sincerely repent…and Allah has assured me of forgiveness.
Perhaps it seems less of a safe zone especially if you believe that all you have to do is believe that one innocent man was murdered for you…and that is your ticket to paradise. For Muslims, we are held responsible for our sins…and we depend on the mercy of our Lord.
E
Eetaq
Guest
If I knwe all my sins would be forgiven I’d be having sex right now, and probably high at the same time. Im just being honest, dont judge me for it plz.
L
LuigiColetta
Guest
Woooow,
I tried to read this thread and I got a little of a headache. We need to make sure we are speaking the same language. The word sin is thrown out as if “original sin” and “personal sin” is the same word…they’re not.(see Eetaq’s thread about “sin”) The word “cause” and “death” are used by the two faiths with different meaning attached to it.
We catholic christians believe “death” is an outcome to the loss of the “original” in God’s creation. We believe that “death” are 2 types. One is the “flesh death” and the other “spiritual death”. But before “In the beginning…” “death” was not! It didn’t exist for His creation.
God is in full control as He wants to be. God willed us for Himself from the beginning, He doesn’t have to keep us (this whole creation) around…BUT He chooses to keep us.
God created us without the “knowledge of Good and Evil”. This knowledge would modify the creation He “Created”. He didn’t will us to go against Him and “know Good and Evil”, but of course, being God and in full control, He allowed us to sin. (Allowing and Willing are 2 different definitions for catholic christians)
God told Adam and Eve that by “knowing Good and Evil” we will surely die. God doesn’t lie. Adam and Eve “knew Good and Evil” and death entered His perfect creation. Did Adam and Eve die after this “incident”? No they didn’t……at least apparently. So what did God mean about “death”? They lived a life, a much longer life we are used to seeing people live, for a bit later in history He shortened the length of the years of human’s life(see Genesis account)…but eventually they died a physical death (a death of the flesh) for their soul(the spiritual aspect of His creation) cannot die…(because He chooses, not because He is limited). The second “death” we catholic christians believe in is the death that is not good…for we all die the first death. Only the ones in Hell have died the second death.
The topic is a big one…more can be said….but let’s see if what I wrote helps at all get the subject on track……(or have I made it worse???)
Your brother,
Luigi
I tried to read this thread and I got a little of a headache. We need to make sure we are speaking the same language. The word sin is thrown out as if “original sin” and “personal sin” is the same word…they’re not.(see Eetaq’s thread about “sin”) The word “cause” and “death” are used by the two faiths with different meaning attached to it.
We catholic christians believe “death” is an outcome to the loss of the “original” in God’s creation. We believe that “death” are 2 types. One is the “flesh death” and the other “spiritual death”. But before “In the beginning…” “death” was not! It didn’t exist for His creation.
God is in full control as He wants to be. God willed us for Himself from the beginning, He doesn’t have to keep us (this whole creation) around…BUT He chooses to keep us.
God created us without the “knowledge of Good and Evil”. This knowledge would modify the creation He “Created”. He didn’t will us to go against Him and “know Good and Evil”, but of course, being God and in full control, He allowed us to sin. (Allowing and Willing are 2 different definitions for catholic christians)
God told Adam and Eve that by “knowing Good and Evil” we will surely die. God doesn’t lie. Adam and Eve “knew Good and Evil” and death entered His perfect creation. Did Adam and Eve die after this “incident”? No they didn’t……at least apparently. So what did God mean about “death”? They lived a life, a much longer life we are used to seeing people live, for a bit later in history He shortened the length of the years of human’s life(see Genesis account)…but eventually they died a physical death (a death of the flesh) for their soul(the spiritual aspect of His creation) cannot die…(because He chooses, not because He is limited). The second “death” we catholic christians believe in is the death that is not good…for we all die the first death. Only the ones in Hell have died the second death.
The topic is a big one…more can be said….but let’s see if what I wrote helps at all get the subject on track……(or have I made it worse???)
Your brother,
Luigi
H
hlgomez
Guest
Faith101,
There is a difference between a slave of sin and the one who is freed from sinning. The former always commits habitual sins but still confident (in himself) that God will forgive him. So he continues on sinning because anyways God will forgive him.
The latter who is no longer a slave of sin sees sin as an abominable offense against God. He no longer has that desire to commit sin, although he may be faced with hundreds of temptations each day. He may still sin, but feels the guilt at once. The former doesn’t have the feeling of guilt.
Now, to which do you belong?
Pio
- Status