ALLAH same as GOD ? Or is this HERESY ?

[Melchior]

A further thought:

It is only the Arabic translators who decided that “God” in the Bible should be translated as “Allah”.

Are you saying you are holding to the belief that the Muslim Allah is the God of Abraham solely on the decision of mortal Arabic translators? Who gave them the right to decide that the Muslim Allah is the God of Abraham?

When M. created his false religion, he took the poplular god of the Arab pantheon at the time, Allah the moon god, and made him the supreme god, he shares nothing in common with the YHWH of scripture, he is simply an elevated pagan deity.

 

[Reuben_J]

the church says we worship the same God because Islam is monotheistic, but the church never says we worship the same God theologically, and the Church never said Muhammad is a prophet from God. Remember, EVEN SATAN believes in the God of Abraham. So if the Church says Muslims worship the God of Abraham, i don’t take it as an agreement on Muhammad being a prophet of God or Islam being truthful, because the Church admits as well that even Satan knows the Only God, the God of Abraham.

Rodrigo Bivar:

For only a Satanic religion would have a pedophilic, genocidal, ethnic-cleansing, war-monger, robber-chief lying slave-trading, lecherous, polygamous cheat as his prophet. That was the greatest trick of Satan - to make a religion of so obvious unwholesomeness that still tricked/tricks millions of people into believing is the religion of Abraham…

 

[Valke2]

Well said. This is exactly true. I wonder if any of the writters of Vatican II read the Koran before penning such a thoughtless and ignorant sentiment.

You can disagree wiht Vatican II, but you can’t dispute that it is the Chruch’s position.

 

[Angelos]

What pro-Islamic and pro-Allah believers fail to understand is that the Catholic Church has no dogma stipulating that every Catholic profess Muslims believe in the same God as Christians! Thus, it is up to the Catholics to agree or disagree with the teaching in the catechism!

As I stated previously, it is not true that all Turkish Christians say “Allah” while referring to the God of the Bible. I know many Protestant “Turks” who insist on using the Turkish equivalent of the word “God” in English. Besides, I am sorry about those Catholic “Turks” believing in Allah since their usage of the word “Allah” only reflects the degree of their cultural assimilation. There are a few Catholics that object to the idea of using Turkish in their prayers and liturgies due to this threat.

There is no use arguing because Muslims never claim that Allah is the same as God! This is the only reason for their replacing “Allah” with “God” in English translations. Another act aiming cultural assmilation and the replacement of the God of Abraham in the Bible with Mohammed’s Allah in the Quran.

Peace to all,
Angelos N.

 

[Valke2]

Historically, yes! “Jesus is God” is not trying to impose on you sth you do not believe. Jesus was the King of the Jews according to the passion narratives in the Gospels. /QUOTE

Um… Historically, no. Who annointed him king? Where in the Gospels does it say he assumed any earthly throne???

 

[Melchior]

You can disagree wiht Vatican II, but you can’t dispute that it is the Chruch’s position.

Fair enough.

 

[Angelos]

Angelos;1719370:

Historically, yes! “Jesus is God” is not trying to impose on you sth you do not believe. Jesus was the King of the Jews according to the passion narratives in the Gospels.

Shalom Valke,

No one anointed Jesus as the King of the Jews because He never claimed to be the King in the Judaic sense of the word:

John 6:15 Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.

18:36 Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish authorities. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.”

Luke 23:2 They began to accuse him, saying, “We found this man subverting our nation, forbidding us to pay the tribute tax to Caesar and claiming that he himself is Christ, a king".

According to the Gospels, Jesus was believed by some Jews to be a king, and some other Jews handed Him over to Pilate with the assertion that He had declared Himself a king!

More, many Jews living in Jesus’ time reacted to Pilate when he defined Jesus as “the King of the Jews” through his royal authority. The statement of those Jews is almost identical with your reaction to a Christian’s calling Jesus “the King of the Jews”

John 19:19 Pilate also had a notice written and fastened to the cross, which read: “Jesus the Nazarene, the king of the Jews.”

John 19:21-22 Then the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, “Do not write, ‘The king of the Jews,’ but rather, ‘This man said, I am king of the Jews.’” Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

Thanks for your question my friend! (I have just written another message for your thread about the Quran).

Peace,
Angelos N. (a former Muslim)

 

[corvidae]

Think of things this way. In my little example we are going to replace God by a long lived man named Greg. Now Greg lives in a different town than the rest of us. Now, for a long time Greg has sent messengers to people (prophets), and we send letters back (prayers).

Now, for the Jews it would be like this. Greg has guided us from the beginning. Greg gave us commandments and talked to our ancestors.

For Christians, it would be like this. Greg actually came to our town, and talked with us. My great great great…grandparents were there. They talked to Greg, they walked with Greg.

For Muslims it would be like this. Greg gave knowledge to a special guy who came and told the rest of us. He showed us who and what Greg is.

Now, if a Jew and a Christian and a Muslim got into a discussion about who Greg is and what Greg is like, they would be very different. One may think of Greg this way, one may think of Greg that way. But in the end, when we send our letters (prayers) to Greg, no matter what our conception of Greg, they are going to the same person.

I think that is how it can seem like their God is so different than ours. However, they claim that they are worshiping the God of Abraham, and they try to worship the God of Abraham, and thus, we should believe that their prayers go to the God of Abraham.

I know my analogy is probably flawed, but I thought it might help.

A lone Raven

 

[Valke2]

This is actually one of the main things that keeps me out of the Catholic Church. It is a new and untenable position.

New is relative. It’s more than 40 years old. And that’s just the age of Vatican II. It is possible the Church held the same opinion prior to that. The fact that the Church acknowledges that Mulsims worship the one true God really is something that keeps you from being Catholic?

 

[Valke2]

Think of things this way. In my little example we are going to replace God by a long lived man named Greg. Now Greg lives in a different town than the rest of us. Now, for a long time Greg has sent messengers to people (prophets), and we send letters back (prayers).

Now, for the Jews it would be like this. Greg has guided us from the beginning. Greg gave us commandments and talked to our ancestors.

For Christians, it would be like this. Greg actually came to our town, and talked with us. My great great great…grandparents were there. They talked to Greg, they walked with Greg.

For Muslims it would be like this. Greg gave knowledge to a special guy who came and told the rest of us. He showed us who and what Greg is.

Now, if a Jew and a Christian and a Muslim got into a discussion about who Greg is and what Greg is like, they would be very different. One may think of Greg this way, one may think of Greg that way. But in the end, when we send our letters (prayers) to Greg, no matter what our conception of Greg, they are going to the same person.

I think that is how it can seem like their God is so different than ours. However, they claim that they are worshiping the God of Abraham, and they try to worship the God of Abraham, and thus, we should believe that their prayers go to the God of Abraham.

I know my analogy is probably flawed, but I thought it might help.

A lone Raven

If you are going to type His name , cand you please type
“Gr-g” out of respect?

 

[inJESUS]

If you are going to type His name , cand you please type
“Gr-g” out of respect?

LOL

 

[inJESUS]

Melchior, do you know that satan believes in the God of Abraham?

 

[Melchior]

New is relative. It’s more than 40 years old. And that’s just the age of Vatican II. It is possible the Church held the same opinion prior to that. The fact that the Church acknowledges that Mulsims worship the one true God really is something that keeps you from being Catholic?

Having read the Koran, it is abundantly clear to me that the God of the Muslims is not the God of Christians or the Judeo-Christian God period. So if I must accept something I do not believe how can I be a Catholic? There is simply no explanation of this that makes any sense to me whatsoever. Why aren’t the Zoroastrians included? They are monotheistic and their god is at least a whole lot nicer than Allah. I god that hates the Jews is not the God of the Bible or Christianity, if I cannot be a good Catholic and believe this then I cannot be a Catholic. What woudl I say at confession? Btw, Padre, I think VII is BS on this subject. Which is a shame, but their ya go.

 

[Melchior]

If you are going to type His name , cand you please type
“Gr-g” out of respect?

Lol! Awesome.

 

[Melchior]

Melchior, do you know that satan believes in the God of Abraham?

Well yeah, he had the benefit of being one of his former angels. Of course a spirit being is aware of who the true God is. Did you that satan mascarades as false gods claiming to be the god of Abraham?

 

[Milliardo]

I will simply reiterate my point–Muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; there is no question on that one, or there shouldn’t be any. Where we differ is on the nature of God. That’s the real point of contention. Some make the mistake of saying that Islam’s view of God to mean that they have a different God. That is not founded. An analogy might be to have two people who have different views of President Bush–one might see him as wise and just, while the other might view him as having done some things wrongly. These are two people talking about the same person. The same then could be said between Christianity and Islam.

 

[Melchior]

I will simply reiterate my point–Muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; there is no question on that one, or there shouldn’t be any. Where we differ is on the nature of God. That’s the real point of contention. Some make the mistake of saying that Islam’s view of God to mean that they have a different God. That is not founded. An analogy might be to have two people who have different views of President Bush–one might see him as wise and just, while the other might view him as having done some things wrongly. These are two people talking about the same person. The same then could be said between Christianity and Islam.

Of course their is a question. The muslims is unitarian. The true God is Trinitarian. This is a confusion of categories. God has charecteristics if one describes a demonic creature and million of people worship it, believing it to be god, does not make it god. The god of Islam is a different god than the one of the Bible. And they think it is the God of Abraham and Ishmael, not Isaac and Jacob. That would be the Jewish/Christian take. If he is not a Trinity, if He was not Incarnated, died, buried and resurrected, He is not the one, true God.

If your sister goes nuts and starts calling the next door neighbor mom it does not make her your mom just because she happens to be a mom. If she did not give birth to you and your sister. She ain’t yo momma!

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

It’s okay for friends to disagree. I think there are two equally valid viewpoints though I believe only one should be promulgated.

These viewpoints are:

1. Muhammad lied about the Muslim Allah being the God of Abraham. The Muslim Allah is so different from the God of Abraham that they cannot be the same, in fact, in many respects they are diametrically opposite. Any similarities are due to Muhammad’s misunderstood plagiarism. The Muslim Allah is really Satan in disguise. Although Satan believes in the God of Abraham, Muslims worship Satan in the guise of the Muslim Allah.

Thus, the Muslim Allah cannot be the God of Abraham.

1. Muhammad taught a heretical view of the God of Abraham, calling him the Muslim ‘Allah’. Thus, Muslims believe and worship the God of Abraham, although their views are heretical and wrong.

These are the two viewpoints. It really boils down to where one draws the line. I draw the line of distinction early - therefore I say the Muslim Allah is not the God of Abraham (because their characteristics are so different, and because I do not give Muhammad the satisfaction of believing his lies even one little bit).

You might draw the line of distinction later - the Muslim Allah really is the God of Abraham but since Muhammad was a heretic he got his views wrong.

I think it is dangerous to promulgate viewpoint 2 because unthinking people do not understand the underlying theology. They only hear the throw-away line: Muslims and Christians worship the same god.

This gives the Muslims the comfort of your validation of Islam. Islam is validated by having the same God as the Christians. They think that their religion is superior to yours because it is an updated, improved model sent down by the same god.

Unthinking people, when hearing the phrase, ‘Muslims and Christians worship the same god’, may therefore make an equivalence between Islam and Christianity - thinking they are just as good or bad as each other - when they’re not.

(If I may be permitted to use religious polemics) To allow such deception is to allow Satan to win. After all, he created a religion mimicking Christianity to deceive people. He made a murderous thieving bandit, someone who enslaved innocent women and children, someone who committed genocide, someone who lusted after his adopted son’s wife, who committed polygamy and pedophilia to be his prophet. Would the God of Abraham make such a man his final and most authoritative prophet, without pulling him up on all those crimes? Would the God of Abraham allow his final and most authoritative prophet the right to break the 10 Commandments willy nillly?

I respect both views. But I hold to one because I think it is dangerous to hold the other. But neither view invalidates the other - it is merely our choice as to where we draw the line of distinction between the Muslim Allah and the God of Abraham.

 

[Milliardo]

Of course their is a question. The muslims is unitarian. The true God is Trinitarian.

Simply illogical; if we go by this, as people here pointed out, Jews must not worship the one true God as well, yet few Christians are willing to accept this. What then singles Muslims out on this one?

God has charecteristics if one describes a demonic creature and million of people worship it, believing it to be god, does not make it god. The god of Islam is a different god than the one of the Bible.

Again, like mty analogy above, it’s like two people talking about the same person, yet describing him differently. Are they talking about two different people? At frist glance, it seems so, if you listen to them, yet carefully weeding out those biases, one would realize that they’re actually talking about the same person. The difference again lies in how we see God’s nature to be. That is where we differ from Muslims.

And they think it is the God of Abraham and Ishmael, not Isaac and Jacob.

Again, simply a non-issue, unless one thinks Ishmael worshipped a different God (and that won’t make the person Biblical then).

That would be the Jewish/Christian take. If he is not a Trinity, if He was not Incarnated, died, buried and resurrected, He is not the one, true God.

Jews do not believe in the Trinity, do not believe Jesus to be God the Son, do not believe that He died and resurrected. Jews must not believe in God then.

If your sister goes nuts and starts calling the next door neighbor mom it does not make her your mom just because she happens to be a mom. If she did not give birth to you and your sister. She ain’t yo momma!

False analogy; one has to first show that Islam then is insane. The burden of proof lies on the one making the accusation.

 

[inJESUS]

Well yeah,

if the Church says satan believes in the God abraham, how does it differ when you subsitute satan with another name? will another name be worse?