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You bring up a valid point: no one truly knows God. But as Christians, we rely on the Word He left for us to give us a path to follow Him. If you don’t trust His Word, how can you trust the Author of that Word? If you know and believe in His Word yet choose to ignore the Way, what good was living your life?:rolleyes:
Dear 808. We Trust all the Word, what I do not trust is my own self as I know how prone it is to rejecting our God who stands within with laws.

God bless and regards Tony
 
For Apostolic Christians - death and sin are intertwined. Neither are caused by God. God, the Second Person of the Trinity, becoming human was to transform this death into a possibility of Eternal Life.
I appreciate they are intertwined, thank you for your response.

So who was the cause of my fathers passing Syro?

.
 
I appreciate they are intertwined, thank you for your response.

So who was the cause of my fathers passing Syro?

.
orthodoxchristian.info/pages/afterdeath.htm

It is beyond any doubt that we Christians are convinced that we are created for life; it is not God’s will that we die. God doesn’t want death; He wants life. In the Scripture, death is the enemy. The Apostle Paul even calls death, “the last enemy”. Death is not natural, not a natural part of our life and not willed by God. The Wisdom of Solomon, which for us is part of the Bible, says very clearly, “God did not create death”. Death comes into the world as a rebellion against God. Death comes into the world because people do not choose life, but choose death, darkness, and themselves over God.

St. Athanasios said, “if you choose yourself you are choosing nothing, because that what you are without God”, since we are created out of nothing. For God gives our whole life to us, Who is the living God and the only One Who lives.

It is our teaching that death results from human rebellion against God from the beginning and with the help of the demons (who are lovers of death, darkness and evil). The Bible teaches actually teaches kind of a ‘package plan’, you have God, truth, life and glory, or you have the demons, darkness, death, satan, sin, corruption, ugliness and rot. This is the basic reality, and there is no middle path.

In the eight chapter of the Epistle to the Romans, the Apostle Paul says, “working in our members is always a heterosnomos (another law)”. Human beings think that they are economists, in other words, they are ‘a law unto themselves’, but according to the Scriptures we are not. Either there is the law (nomos) of Christ, which the Apostle Paul calls the law of the Holy Spirit and Life in his Epistle to the Romans, or there is the law of sin and death. There is either one law or the other that works, if it isn’t the one it is the other. Here we interpret the Genesis story as the choice of death. Furthermore, it is even not strictly Orthodox to think of sin as a corrupted choice or making the wrong choice. I believe that our teaching is that the problem is not whether it is right or wrong but choice itself (as taught by St. Maximos the Confessor), because if you are a creature you have no choice.

If there is God and God is God and God is the living God and God is Who He is, our only choice is to give up our choice and listen to and obey Him. This is very important to understand, because the modern people think that the more choices they have and the more they deliberate the more the freer they are, however this is not Biblical. What we say is that if there is God, at any given moment the only choice we have is to give up choice and obey Him, listen to Him, trust Him, to love Him and to believe Him. The primordial sin is exactly saying “no, I will not obey, trust or love God. I will do it my way”. You know what takes place when you do it your way; you perish and die. That is where death comes from. Where there is obedience, love and trust in God, there can not be death. If one was to obey God totally, live in communion with God, trust and love God in everything, that person will not be able to die.

It is interesting in the Genesis story, God did not say to Adam and Eve, “eat of the tree and I will kill you”. He said, “you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”, meaning choice rather than obedience, “for when you eat of it you will surely die”, for it is sin that kills you. God doesn’t kill anybody, in that sense; we kill ourselves. So the minute we take our life in our own hands to do what we want to do, and do not obey God, basically we commit suicide. Furthermore, we put that death over to our children who are born in the same condition of death when born into the world. That is what the ‘ancestral sin’ is all about. A second point is that we would say that the human task is to overcome and destroy death, and to make death to die so that life can then live.

The whole Old Testament, which includes the Law, Psalms and Prophets, is really about teaching people the will of God to reconstruct a rebellious humanity in order that ultimately death can be destroyed. For example, in the Law of Moses you have two very interesting things, one is God says, through Moses, ‘I present to you only two ways: the blessing and the curse’ (i.e. life or death). Then it says, ‘choose life and don’t choose death’. The Law, Psalms and Prophets say Obey God, give up your choice, obey God and you will live. For example, Psalm 118 (119) that is read in our funeral service and on the night of Holy Saturday before Pascha says, “Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord! Blessed are those who keep His testimonies, who seek Him with the whole heart!” Then the Psalm continues “If I keep I Your law, I find life in it and I can not die”. That is way it is read over the body of the dead Jesus, because He is the only One who kept the Law of God completely, and therefore could not die.

What we believe is that Jesus Christ our Saviour came into the world in order to die. He is the only One who came in order to die so that He can transform death itself into a victory through His death. He is the only One, the only Person, and the only Human who has ever been born in order to die. He is also the only Human who is the Son of God, Who is divine as the same divinity as the Father, Who is born of a virgin, Who is begotten of the Father, Who comes exactly into the world for one purpose; to destroy the work of the devil and death, and to give us life.
 
I personally believe we must be open to the notion that salvation can come to those who are not Christians and this has been espoused by many in the Catholic church including Pope Francis. But, the path to salvation must be the path that follows Christ even if the person does not know it. For example: a person who willing steals money from his neighbors/clients yet claims to follow Christ will probably find the road to heaven very difficult. Another who is Muslim yet follows all the teachings of Christ will probably find him/herself in heaven with God.

Where Christians and Muslims diverge in practise is our believe that Jesus is God not just His Prophet.

Happy New Year!
What ever Jesus was but was not He sent by God? Muslims confirm that Jesus was sent by God as Jesus Himsellf said it very times.

There is a very clear fact that Jesus was human, wasn’t He?

There is a fact that Jesus lived like a prophet, didn’t He?

There is fact that Jesus preached like a prophet, didn’t He?

There is a fact that Jesus performed miracles as prophets did, didn’t He?

There is a fact that Jesus was used to eat and drink just like other humans, wasn’t He?

Adam was created without a father too but He was not an incarnated God, was He?

But there is no such thing which Jesus claimed “I am an incarnation God!”

So who make it hard?
 
What ever Jesus was but was not He sent by God? Muslims confirm that Jesus was sent by God as Jesus Himsellf said it very times.

There is a very clear fact that Jesus was human, wasn’t He?

There is a fact that Jesus lived like a prophet, didn’t He?

There is fact that Jesus preached like a prophet, didn’t He?

There is a fact that Jesus performed miracles as prophets did, didn’t He?

There is a fact that Jesus was used to eat and drink just like other humans, wasn’t He?

Adam was created without a father too but He was not an incarnated God, was He?

But there is no such thing which Jesus claimed “I am an incarnation God!”

So who make it hard?
There have been many religions that claimed their god came to earth disguised as a man. Christianity’s belief is that God didn’t disguise Himself, He incarnated in Christ Jesus. Divine nature and human nature in one person.
 
Further on in Matthew 19 is verse 28: “Jesus said to them, “Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

While we can’t know exactly what Jesus meant by this passage (no one knows the mind of God), Christians believe we can discern His intent by reading the Bible and following the early church fathers who lived with Him. We believe in Jesus’ promise that the Holy Spirit will guide the church He established and that the church will prevail not because we have popes and bishops who lead us but because the Holy Spirit leads them (and us.)

If the Koran is correct and Jesus is not God but an Islamic prophet (lesser than Mohammed), we Christians are surely in error and Jesus did lie to us!. That’s a pretty significant divergence from our Christian belief that God came to earth taking on human nature while maintaining His Divine nature and established His church on earth with a promise that church shall not fail or falter until the final judgement. In my opinion, this discrepancy is so wide, there is no bridging the gap. I also believe, we can agree to disagree on the nature of God since Christians and Muslims (and Jews) are merely human and prone to limited understanding.
Both Qur’an and Jesus was true. Did Jesus say Church would never make mistake? Where that is written? I know very mistakes and scandals in Church.

Holy Spirit guided but Holy Spirit came to Muhammad.

When do Holy Spirit come to lead Church? Did anybody see that? How many times did Holy Spirit come?

You make up somethings and then say it is from Jesus so who deny this is wrong!
 
There have been many religions that claimed their god came to earth disguised as a man. Christianity’s belief is that God didn’t disguise Himself, He incarnated in Christ Jesus. Divine nature and human nature in one person.
A god who come on the earth disguised as a man should be belong to a false religion. So you verify that God come to earth as an incarnated god should be false.
 
Christians have the Holy Trinity… Muslims have tawheed. How can Christians have the same God as muslims when islam considers the Holy Trinity to be blasphemous?
Do Christians not believe in one God?
 
A god who come on the earth disguised as a man should be belong to a false religion. So you verify that God come to earth as an incarnated god should be false.
Jesus was not disguised; He is God Incarnate. Not the same thing.
 
orthodoxchristian.info/pages/afterdeath.htm

It is beyond any doubt that we Christians are convinced that we are created for life; it is not God’s will that we die. God doesn’t want death; He wants life. In the Scripture, death is the enemy. The Apostle Paul even calls death, “the last enemy”. Death is not natural, not a natural part of our life and not willed by God. The Wisdom of Solomon, which for us is part of the Bible, says very clearly, “God did not create death”. Death comes into the world as a rebellion against God. Death comes into the world because people do not choose life, but choose death, darkness, and themselves over God.

St. Athanasios said, “if you choose yourself you are choosing nothing, because that what you are without God”, since we are created out of nothing. For God gives our whole life to us, Who is the living God and the only One Who lives.

It is our teaching that death results from human rebellion against God from the beginning and with the help of the demons (who are lovers of death, darkness and evil). The Bible teaches actually teaches kind of a ‘package plan’, you have God, truth, life and glory, or you have the demons, darkness, death, satan, sin, corruption, ugliness and rot. This is the basic reality, and there is no middle path.

In the eight chapter of the Epistle to the Romans, the Apostle Paul says, “working in our members is always a heterosnomos (another law)”. Human beings think that they are economists, in other words, they are ‘a law unto themselves’, but according to the Scriptures we are not. Either there is the law (nomos) of Christ, which the Apostle Paul calls the law of the Holy Spirit and Life in his Epistle to the Romans, or there is the law of sin and death. There is either one law or the other that works, if it isn’t the one it is the other. Here we interpret the Genesis story as the choice of death. Furthermore, it is even not strictly Orthodox to think of sin as a corrupted choice or making the wrong choice. I believe that our teaching is that the problem is not whether it is right or wrong but choice itself (as taught by St. Maximos the Confessor), because if you are a creature you have no choice.

If there is God and God is God and God is the living God and God is Who He is, our only choice is to give up our choice and listen to and obey Him. This is very important to understand, because the modern people think that the more choices they have and the more they deliberate the more the freer they are, however this is not Biblical. What we say is that if there is God, at any given moment the only choice we have is to give up choice and obey Him, listen to Him, trust Him, to love Him and to believe Him. The primordial sin is exactly saying “no, I will not obey, trust or love God. I will do it my way”. You know what takes place when you do it your way; you perish and die. That is where death comes from. Where there is obedience, love and trust in God, there can not be death. If one was to obey God totally, live in communion with God, trust and love God in everything, that person will not be able to die.

It is interesting in the Genesis story, God did not say to Adam and Eve, “eat of the tree and I will kill you”. He said, “you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”, meaning choice rather than obedience, “for when you eat of it you will surely die”, for it is sin that kills you. God doesn’t kill anybody, in that sense; we kill ourselves. So the minute we take our life in our own hands to do what we want to do, and do not obey God, basically we commit suicide. Furthermore, we put that death over to our children who are born in the same condition of death when born into the world. That is what the ‘ancestral sin’ is all about. A second point is that we would say that the human task is to overcome and destroy death, and to make death to die so that life can then live.

The whole Old Testament, which includes the Law, Psalms and Prophets, is really about teaching people the will of God to reconstruct a rebellious humanity in order that ultimately death can be destroyed. For example, in the Law of Moses you have two very interesting things, one is God says, through Moses, ‘I present to you only two ways: the blessing and the curse’ (i.e. life or death). Then it says, ‘choose life and don’t choose death’. The Law, Psalms and Prophets say Obey God, give up your choice, obey God and you will live. For example, Psalm 118 (119) that is read in our funeral service and on the night of Holy Saturday before Pascha says, “Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord! Blessed are those who keep His testimonies, who seek Him with the whole heart!” Then the Psalm continues “If I keep I Your law, I find life in it and I can not die”. That is way it is read over the body of the dead Jesus, because He is the only One who kept the Law of God completely, and therefore could not die.

What we believe is that Jesus Christ our Saviour came into the world in order to die. He is the only One who came in order to die so that He can transform death itself into a victory through His death. He is the only One, the only Person, and the only Human who has ever been born in order to die. He is also the only Human who is the Son of God, Who is divine as the same divinity as the Father, Who is born of a virgin, Who is begotten of the Father, Who comes exactly into the world for one purpose; to destroy the work of the devil and death, and to give us life.
Hi Syro, and thank you for this detailed explanation.

Death is indeed the enemy of God, and I appreciate the Christian perspective, but I have no control of when I will physically die.

Who is in control then of my inevitable physical death?

.
 
Interesting choice of description: “adventurous”…😉
Sure. This adventure is about Advent 😃

The coming of Jesus and then being with him, touching him, loving him. Those who lived with him curing many people telling them their sins were forgiven. Holy Holy Holy is the Lord. :harp:

MJ
 
Sure. This adventure is about Advent 😃

The coming of Jesus and then being with him, touching him, loving him. Those who lived with him curing many people telling them their sins were forgiven. Holy Holy Holy is the Lord. :harp:

MJ
Ah hah, I see your perspective. I’m not sure that’s the same perspective @hasantas was trying to make. 🙂
 
We are resolute in our faith in God.

It is one thing to affirm one’s faith in God.

It is another thing for other human beings to want to go out and destroy others for their faith in God.

Pride is the worst sin. God is Creator and He created all of us. He is all Perfect.

Why God Who revealed Himself to the Jewish people, whose prophets foresaw the coming of the Messiah in the Jewish race, now come about and want to destroy them and their beliefs?
 
We are resolute in our faith in God.

It is one thing to affirm one’s faith in God.

It is another thing for other human beings to want to go out and destroy others for their faith in God.

Pride is the worst sin. God is Creator and He created all of us. He is all Perfect.

Why God Who revealed Himself to the Jewish people, whose prophets foresaw the coming of the Messiah in the Jewish race, now come about and want to destroy them and their beliefs?
The answer is in the Bible. The answer is in the Koran, the answer in fact is in all the Holy books.

That no man exalts himself above another, as we are all but created from God to know and to love Him.

God is Inclusive, man makes Him exclusive by pride and prejudices.

Regards Tony
 
What I am wanting to point out is the anticipation of the Messiah…at first whispered…with the incredible theophany of Abraham, his obedience to the will of God to sacrifice his son Isaac, but did not complete the action because of the intervention by St. Gabriel.

Throughout the Old Testament there are prophecies anticipating the coming Messiah. He would be a man of suffering – not triumphant by battles and invalidating the human dignity of other beliefs.

The concept that Muhammed is the final prophet presents a message that contradicts Christ.

A true prophet is from God. The event of a true prophet can only be proven that what he points out – to return to God and away from idols – and if not there are consequences is opposite of Muhammed’s who contradicts the consistency of Sacred Scripture.

I wish folks, including Hasantas, to look at this comparative between Christ and Muhammed, and we see a different treatment of women even today between factions of Islam and Judeo Christianity.

www.religionofpeace.com/pages/jesus-muhammed.htm

I tried the link but it didn’t show up. But you should be able to key it in as a search.

Sorry, relatives moving in this weekend, later than anticipated. So we have to help settle.
 
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