Altar calls are unbiblical?

[TLM08]

I once read in Karl Keating’s book called Catholicism and Fundamentalism that altar calls, a practice in which christians come forward to make a public confession of their belief and commitment to Jesus Christ are unbiblical. I no longer have that book, but if anyone can find the quote I would appreciate it.

*** “…The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.* For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:8-13**

I really don’t know how Mr. Keating could say that in his book unless he missed this passage from Romans. Could anyone shed some light on this?

 

[nsper7]

I once read in Karl Keating’s book called Catholicism and Fundamentalism that altar calls, a practice in which christians come forward to make a public confession of their belief and commitment to Jesus Christ are unbiblical. I no longer have that book, but if anyone can find the quote I would appreciate it.

*** “…The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.*** For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:8-13

I really don’t know how Mr. Keating could say that in his book unless he missed this passage from Romans. Could anyone shed some light on this?

I think Keating is saying that there are never any accounts in the New Testament of altar calls occurring.

 

[JustaServant]

And lets add praying in tongues, being slain in the spirit, having personal prophecies, bible schools, prosperity gospel, and the list goes on. I won’t even bring up anointed hankies and growing legs.
Catholics are out front with their appeal to tradition and get ridiculed and attacked for it from “bible only christians” who do many things that are based on thier own tradition.
They claim “bible alone”, but do many extrabiblical traditions of thier own.
BTW, the ‘altar call’ IS an evangelical sacrament. It meets the definition.

 

[TLM08]

And lets add praying in tongues, being slain in the spirit, having personal prophecies, bible schools, prosperity gospel, and the list goes on. I won’t even bring up anointed hankies and growing legs.
Catholics are out front with their appeal to tradition and get ridiculed and attacked for it from “bible only christians” who do many things that are based on thier own tradition.
They claim “bible alone”, but do many extrabiblical traditions of thier own.
BTW, the ‘altar call’ IS an evangelical sacrament. It meets the definition.

Wow… I’m glad you didn’t bring up those dreaded anointed hankies and growing legs! Let’s not forget the clown Masses and Halloween Masses complete with Satan handing out Holy Communion. Can you please tell me where those can be found in Sacred Tradition? Modern day evangelicalism is in absolute shambles as well. The TV preachers with their “prosperity gospel” are an abomination. Don’t forget the “laughing revival” in Toronto some years ago that had people crawling around on the floor and barking like dogs. Christianity is in bad shape right now.

youtube.com/watch?v=WadbbxPoBlk&feature=related

youtube.com/watch?v=wedpLBTKd84&feature=related

I think it all gets back to the scriptures. What do they say? My point was that Karl’s book claims that “altar calls” where people confess their faith in Chirst is unbiblical. The scripture says otherwise. As Christians, we are to search the scriptures to weed out false teachings (and teachings) just as the Bereans did.

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Acts 17:11

 

[Tiberius1701]

Disclaimer: I’ve not read Karl’s book, so this is purely supposition…

Perhaps Keating was saying not that calling people to repent and believe is unbiblical (because that would certainly be absurd), but that calling them to kneel at the unconsecrated evangelical altar every time they feel convicted (and three times on Sundays) only to confess to God in their hearts without any semblance of the true Sacrament of Reconciliation is unbiblical? Personally (and I have a feeling that the Catholic Church may back me up on this), I believe that the Bible and Tradition call us to repentence and grace via the Sacraments, and that “confessing with [our] mouths” means living out the Faith in every day life, and not just falling on our faces and saying “Hallelujah!” when the preacher man tells us we need to be saved. We must certainly believe in our hearts, but that belief must bear fruit in every aspect of our life. And, besides, what need do we Catholics have of being called to pray at an incomplete altar, “Jesus, please come into my heart” when, each time we come to a true altar and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, He first says to us, “Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood, for I long to come into you and to give you the grace to bear My good fruit in the world”?

 

[JustaServant]

Disclaimer: I’ve not read Karl’s book, so this is purely supposition…

Perhaps Keating was saying not that calling people to repent and believe is unbiblical (because that would certainly be absurd), but that calling them to kneel at the unconsecrated evangelical altar every time they feel convicted (and three times on Sundays) only to confess to God in their hearts without any semblance of the true Sacrament of Reconciliation is unbiblical? Personally (and I have a feeling that the Catholic Church may back me up on this), I believe that the Bible and Tradition call us to repentence and grace via the Sacraments, and that “confessing with [our] mouths” means living out the Faith in every day life, and not just falling on our faces and saying “Hallelujah!” when the preacher man tells us we need to be saved. We must certainly believe in our hearts, but that belief must bear fruit in every aspect of our life. And, besides, what need do we Catholics have of being called to pray at an incomplete altar, “Jesus, please come into my heart” when, each time we come to a true altar and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, He first says to us, “Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood, for I long to come into you and to give you the grace to bear My good fruit in the world”?

Excellant point.
‘Altar calls’ were invented by the Methodists, although their version of it was far different than what it transformed into. It was simply a time for the believer to come (physically), kneel (physically) and pray silently (spiritual).
Sounds sacramental, doesn’t it?
It was an evangelist named Charles Finney who created what evangelicals call an ‘altar call’ today. Most Reformed Protestants reject this practice. It’s based on the ‘make a decision for Jesus mentality’. It’s showey and has more to do with puffing up the preacher than the person coming forward.
I remember seeing one preacher once going down into the congregation and practically dragging a poor woman out of her pew during his ‘altar call’ saying: ‘it’s time you got saved!’.
BTW, as a Catholic I am not against the Methodist original form of this ‘sacrament’. The practice is actually very Catholic.

 

[Lancer]

TLM08Altar calls are unbiblical?
**
…I think it all gets back to the scriptures. What do they say? My point was that Karl’s book claims that “altar calls” where people confess their faith in Christ is unbiblical. The scripture says otherwise**. As Christians, we are to search the scriptures to weed out false teachings(and teachings) just** as the Bereans did**.

1. Maybe I missed it…but where does** scripture say otherwise** (re: altar calls)?

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Acts 17:11

1. I think you may be misreading the Acts passage. The Bereans are obviously not examining the New Testament…but the Old Testament…so where in the Old Testament does it say or teach…explicitly…what Paul is saying about Jesus being the Messiah and having to suffer and die and then be raised from the dead? Isaiah…as incredible as it is (some call it the “5th gospel”)…is not explicit. My point is that the Bereans are being taught by Paul…not by Scripture…if Paul had not taught them how to read say Isaiah 49 (The Servant’s Mission) and 50 (The Servants Humiliation and Vindication)…then the Bereans would never have gotten the “message” from examining the scripture.

(Also remember the Road to Emmaus…episode…
Lk 24:13-35 (NIV)
“***32. *…Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?” **

1. Here is what Jesus himself says as he sends out the Seventy-Two:

Luke 10:16 (NIV-UK)

16 He who** listens to you listens to me**; he who** rejects you rejects me**; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.

1. Now, here is what happens when they come back:

Luke 10:17-21 (NIV-UK)

17 The** seventy-two returned with joy** and said, Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.
18 He replied, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.
20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.
21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

1. Now…here is what Paul says…about the Mystery of Our Religion:

**1 Timothy 3:15 (NIV-UK)
**

15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in** God’s household**, which is** the church** of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. It is The Church (its the Pope, the bishops in communion with him and the Magisterium that guarantees the TRUTH…in all matters of faith and morals…not the scriptures which can be easily misinterpreted by very fallible Christians…no matter how good their intentions!.

John 14: 15-17;
15 If you love me, you will obey what I command.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you for ever—

17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you… 26 But the Counsellor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.6. Lastly, I have a question for you regarding the problems in the Catholic Church of:

…the clown Masses and Halloween Masses complete with Satan handing out Holy Communion. Can you please tell me where those

can be found in Sacred Tradition?..
Here is a scenario…Your friend went to the doctor and had a serious illness which if untreated would eventually kill him…and the doctor gave him the perfect prescription medicine with 100 percent success rate to heal and cure him/his illness…save his life…and restore him to 100 percent healthiness…but he did not take the medicine and died. Two weeks later, you get the same illness…go to the same doctor…get the same medicine…take it and are saved and restored to 100 percent healthiness…Now I get the same illness…how should I judge the doctor and his diagnosis/prescription medicine?..Should I base my judgments on the results of your friend or base my judgment on the results of your case?

Simply…those who perpetrate the scandals you mentioned above have been prescribed the saving medicine by the Divine Physician… by Our Lord Jesus…the medicine of Grace through the Sacraments of the Church…but they have refused to take them…and appear to be dying or have already died (only God can judge their heart and soul)…but…pick anyone of the great faithful…loyal…joyfully obedient priests/bishops/cardinals who take the Divine Medicine and are clearly 100 percent alive and in full spiritual healthiness…who do you base your judgment of the Catholic Church on…the living or the dead?

Pax Christi

 

[Texan77]

I would note that unbiblical simply means unfounded - this does not mean anti biblical…

 

[Tiberius1701]

JustaServant: I agree, the Methodist origin does sound almost Sacramental. hehe. Not that it surprises me; my wife grew up Free Methodist and studying John Wesley is what began her journey toward the Catholic Church (and thus, indirectly, mine as well). The man was far more Catholic than even he realized at the time (though I’m sure he sees it now ). It’s a shame how far some of his posterity have wandered from their roots. I pray, with the intercession of St. Monica (today is her day, after all), that some day they will all find their way back home…

Lancer: Right on, brother.

Texan77: Also a very valid point.

 

[tweetymom]

And lets add praying in tongues, being slain in the spirit, having personal prophecies, bible schools, prosperity gospel, and the list goes on. I won’t even bring up anointed hankies and growing legs.
Catholics are out front with their appeal to tradition and get ridiculed and attacked for it from “bible only christians” who do many things that are based on thier own tradition.
They claim “bible alone”, but do many extrabiblical traditions of thier own.
BTW, the ‘altar call’ IS an evangelical sacrament. It meets the definition.

Just Wondering Why do you think all these thing are not real? Do you feel the same about having Scapulers are unreal too and medals that are blessed by the Priest, Just wndering not to be controversal but there are many Catholics that practice those things

 

[TLM08]

1. Maybe I missed it…but where does** scripture say otherwise** (re: altar calls)?
2. I think you may be misreading the Acts passage. The Bereans are obviously not examining the New Testament…but the Old Testament…"

I was not referring to the Acts passage in regard to altar calls. Acts 17:11 commends the Berean Christians for checking the teachings of Paul against the scriptures to see if what he was teaching was true. Why would we not continue to follow the example of these Christians and search the scriptures? So the writer of the Book of Acts wouldn’t approve of us using the New Testament as a guide to expose error and false teachings? The Book of Acts itself is the story of how the Church grew after the resurrection and assention. Many of the epistles in the New Testament were written almost exclusively to correct errors and expose false teachers who were corrupting the gospel. The Book of Galatians was a prime example of this.

I believe that what the public confession of faith in Christ that we see in many evangelical churches is taken directly from Romans Chapter 10:

"…The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:8-13

This is where I believe it is reasonable to declare that the altar call is indeed very biblical. Going deeper, it also proclaims that our salvation is absolutely secure through our belief in Christ and nothing else. It is when we have true faith, we will thank him and demonstrate our love for him through our good works. Indeed faith without works is dead as the Book of James says. However, those good works that are “evidence” that we have been saved, not a form of currency to earn our salvation.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Romans is certainly not elevating “confessing with your mouth” to the level of a liturgical act, as you seem to think, TLM. There’s no example of this being done in any of the writings describing early Christian worship.

This is one of the many un-Biblical things pop-evangelicals indulge in, which are fond things vainly invented, founded upon no warrant of scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.

Among these non-Biblical practices are revivals, invitation hymns, hymnals, pews, pulpits, and saying prayers to pieces of cloth.

All these things were done by the Baptist Church that I was raised in, and I repudiated when I got saved.

 

[JustaServant]

Just Wondering Why do you think all these thing are not real? Do you feel the same about having Scapulers are unreal too and medals that are blessed by the Priest, Just wndering not to be controversal but there are many Catholics that practice those things

The point of the post was to identify evangelical ‘traditions’ and ‘sacraments’, not to disect them, as it would derail the thread.

 

[JustaServant]

Romans is certainly not elevating “confessing with your mouth” to the level of a liturgical act, as you seem to think, TLM. There’s no example of this being done in any of the writings describing early Christian worship.

This is one of the many un-Biblical things pop-evangelicals indulge in, which are fond things vainly invented, founded upon no warrant of scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.

Among these non-Biblical practices are revivals, invitation hymns, hymnals, pews, pulpits, and saying prayers to pieces of cloth.

All these things were done by the Baptist Church that I was raised in, and I repudiated when I got saved.

Well, as a former Baptist I’m sure you experience what happens when the preacher decides to change tradition in a Baptist church.
“I like the oooooooold fashioned hymns”.
“I miss singing the Gloria Patri”.
“Why isn’t the choir wearing robes!”
“We are a King James Bible church!”
and of course the ever-popular:
“We’ve never done that before!!”

 

[TLM08]

Romans is certainly not elevating “confessing with your mouth” to the level of a liturgical act, as you seem to think, TLM. There’s no example of this being done in any of the writings describing early Christian worship…

It is not the physical act itself that saves… rather it is our faith in Christ as the Son of the living God and in his shed blood as payment for our sins that saves us. The passage in Romans is not a command… rather it is a statement of what saving faith looks like.

 

[tweetymom]

The point of the post was to identify evangelical ‘traditions’ and ‘sacraments’, not to disect them, as it would derail the thread.

okay then just asking a question didm’t mean to disrupt anything

 

[garysibio]

Personally I don’t see why a Catholic evangelist could not give an altar call. Not during the Mass, of course. Even though we believe that we start down the road to salvation at baptism, will still need to continually convert and I think an altar call would make an excellent call to conversion.

 

[tweetymom]

okay then just asking a question didm’t mean to disrupt anything

Personally I don’t see why a Catholic evangelist could not give an altar call. Not during the Mass, of course. Even though we believe that we start down the road to salvation at baptism, will still need to continually convert and I think an altar call would make an excellent call to conversion.

I hope that I can agree with you which i most certainally do. We do so need to continually
convert.Altar calls are very wonderful and cleansing Bu th way is that your blog? Nice and the pictures are great. God Bless:thumbsup:

 

[bpbasilphx]

It is not the physical act itself that saves… rather it is our faith in Christ as the Son of the living God and in his shed blood as payment for our sins that saves us. The passage in Romans is not a command… rather it is a statement of what saving faith looks like.

**Then don’t use this verse to justify the totally unBiblical practice of pop-evangelical altar calls as a liturgical act of public worship!

You seem to be trying to have it both ways.

Actually, there is an altar call built into every Divine Liturgy: “With fear of God, with faith and love draw near!” (I believe the equivalent words in the Latin rite are “Behold the Lamb of God…”).

Every time we open our mouths to receive Holy Communion, we are confessing we believe in Jesus as risen Lord.

THIS is the “confessing with the mouth” that St. Paul is talking about, not your 19th century man-made tradition.
**

 

[PJM]

I once read in Karl Keating’s book called Catholicism and Fundamentalism that altar calls, a practice in which christians come forward to make a public confession of their belief and commitment to Jesus Christ are unbiblical. I no longer have that book, but if anyone can find the quote I would appreciate it.

*** “…The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.*** For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:8-13

I really don’t know how Mr. Keating could say that in his book unless he missed this passage from Romans. Could anyone shed some light on this?

***Friend you’re missing the point.

Please look up 1 John 1: 8-10, 1 Jn. 5: 15-17 and then John20:21-23 [in that order sequence].

That is the “confession” being talked about.

Love and prayers,

Pat***