"ALTAR GIRLS" and SEMINARIANS

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In my local Church there was only ONE young man enter the Seminary in the past 35 years.

Yesterday at 11:00 AM Mass there were 7 Alter Girls and 1 little 9 year old boy. I know the boy and I can tell you that he looked very much “out of place”.

I asked after Mass about the Alter Girls and was told that the Boys don’t want to serve like they did before. They don’t want to serve with girls. At that age it is understandable. Boys do not want to be led by an older girl - that’s just psychology.

My consern is that if boys look down on being an Alter Girl-Boy then how will that change their attitude toward going into the Seminary? Will the Alter-Girls make a large difference in the number of boys who enter the Seminary?
 
Personally, I do think that altar girls do have a negative influence on the recruitment of altar boys. In every parish I can think of that has both altar boys and girl altar boys, the girls outnumber the boys.
 
What’s the deal with altar girls? Girls are meant to wear First Communion dresses, sing hymns and throw flowers for processions. Boys can’t do that. To each his own.
 
On the one hand, I do think that not having boys exposed to service at the altar creates a difficulty in their lack of exposure and natural intrigue towards such things which might lead them to be more open to exploring the priesthood. On the other hand, we don’t have minor seminaries anymore save in a very few places. So I don’t know that it makes much of a difference in that there isn’t a natural support system to foster young vocations, anyway. Basically, we’ve largely given up on the young (lifer) vocation in the Church in favor of recruiting adult men with life experience.
 
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chicago:
On the one hand, I do think that not having boys exposed to service at the altar creates a difficulty in their lack of exposure and natural intrigue towards such things which might lead them to be more open to exploring the priesthood. On the other hand, we don’t have minor seminaries anymore save in a very few places. So I don’t know that it makes much of a difference in that there isn’t a natural support system to foster young vocations, anyway. Basically, we’ve largely given up on the young (lifer) vocation in the Church in favor of recruiting adult men with life experience.
No we have not. The Bishops/Religious Orders are in favor of recruiting men who fit a certain mold. They perfer men with a bachelors degree and no debt. They do not perfer life experience because the majority do not want to hear from anyone over 35 years of age.
 
I had been a Knight of the Alter for many years from 3rd Grade through High School Being an alter boy was not considered what they call today Macho. One was at risk of being Father’s or Sister’s little sissy. Since Macho is even stronger today, I am not surprised at the dearth of Alter boys, which honestly probably is not helped by the fact that girls can do it too. I also harbor a suspicion that many of the priests and nuns who bailed out after Vat II were young (Junior High to High School Age) recruits who were hot house plants isolated from cold winds of the world outside and wondering what they had missed. Some of these bailees were at base good people, but not a few were really psycologically messed up.
 
And the Church wonders why many of the faithful leave, join the SSPX or even convert to Orthodoxy.

There is hardly any discipline or a reminder of tradition within the American Roman Catholic Church, just plenty of altar girls and women EMHC’s, so David how many of these have you in the Eastern Catholic Church ?.. not yet but…

james
 
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chevalier:
What’s the deal with altar girls? Girls are meant to wear First Communion dresses, sing hymns and throw flowers for processions. Boys can’t do that. To each his own.
This is a very interesting comment. When I was little, we had processions several times a year. The girls always had the starring roles, especially for the May processions. These kinds of tributes have all but disappeared. Even later, in the 70s, the Jr. High and HS girls were responsible for altar flowers and decorations. I haven’t seen that in ages either.

I wonder if this is part of the reason for the girls wanting to take over as alter servers. Have we forced girls into being alter servers by taking away all of their choices?
 
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kmktexas:
This is a very interesting comment. When I was little, we had processions several times a year. The girls always had the starring roles, especially for the May processions. These kinds of tributes have all but disappeared. Even later, in the 70s, the Jr. High and HS girls were responsible for altar flowers and decorations. I haven’t seen that in ages either.

I wonder if this is part of the reason for the girls wanting to take over as alter servers. Have we forced girls into being alter servers by taking away all of their choices?
This is bad catechisis. Everyone participates just by being at Mass.

When we start to create special roles for everyone is when everyone loses.
 
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kmktexas:
This is a very interesting comment. When I was little, we had processions several times a year. The girls always had the starring roles, especially for the May processions. These kinds of tributes have all but disappeared. Even later, in the 70s, the Jr. High and HS girls were responsible for altar flowers and decorations. I haven’t seen that in ages either.

I wonder if this is part of the reason for the girls wanting to take over as alter servers. Have we forced girls into being alter servers by taking away all of their choices?
We have May Crowning and Choir Girls. We have Altar Boys. Two Hundred Altar Boys! Mentioned on EWTN, I might add. We also have eight seminarians and the rumor is that two more of our boys are joining next year.
I am the mother of girls and I feel that boys need a special place. Boys can’t give birth to the next generation, let them be Altar Boys, let them be Priests.
 
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ByzCath:
No we have not. The Bishops/Religious Orders are in favor of recruiting men who fit a certain mold. They perfer men with a bachelors degree and no debt. They do not perfer life experience because the majority do not want to hear from anyone over 35 years of age.
Admittedly, the religious orders are such. This is due to the difficulties of entering community life at an older age and having to adjust to it’s challenges after having been on your own.

I don’t necessarily agree that the dioceses are not open to somewhat older vocations and men with life experience, however. I think that ordinations in many places will show otherwise.

Further, by older vocations of experienced men, I was also including recent college grads in my thinking.

In any case, you are still basically making my point for me. The recruitment age for vocations is no longer the 6th grader. It’s, minimally, the 16th grader. As such, the value of them having been altar boys 10 years earlier is somewhat questionable in developing vocations.
 
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chicago:
Admittedly, the religious orders are such. This is due to the difficulties of entering community life at an older age and having to adjust to it’s challenges after having been on your own.
Yes this is one of the stated reasons but it is not a convincing one to me. If this was true then we should not allow older men to move, change jobs, marry, have children, etc…
I don’t necessarily agree that the dioceses are not open to somewhat older vocations and men with life experience, however. I think that ordinations in many places will show otherwise.
This will depend on the diocese.
Further, by older vocations of experienced men, I was also including recent college grads in my thinking.
Sorry but I think I will find much agreement out there. Those who graduate from college do not really have “life experience” as the college environment is different, very acedemic and liberal, and really bares no resemblance to real life.
In any case, you are still basically making my point for me. The recruitment age for vocations is no longer the 6th grader. It’s, minimally, the 16th grader. As such, the value of them having been altar boys 10 years earlier is somewhat questionable in developing vocations.
No, there are minor seminaries, Franscian University at Steubenville has one, there is one in Chicago used by the diocese and many religious orders.

Anyways, there is no such thing as “recruitment” for vocations. Either one is called or one is not. When someone finds a person that they think may have a calling it is up to them to let that person know.
 
GloriaPatri4 said:
St. Agnes Catholic Church in St. Paul, Minn. Never uses EMsHC and only uses boy altar servers. They currently have 11 of their young men in seminary.

stagnes.net/church/Info…age=vocat ions

This is I suspected. When Alter “BOYS” are Boys and when EMHCs are men we get more in the Seminary.

Do any of you know that when compared to Seminarians in 1970 today we have just one/ninth the number. I have read that in 1970 there were 37,000 seminarieans and today we have less than 5,000.

Does that wake you up? At this rate the number in Seminary will fall to 3,500 in 2010. Dont you want a priest in your town? We have 4 priests here in my local parish, and the youngest is 58 years old. What will happen to you grand children when the is no priest? To contenue this trend will rot the Church from the inside.

For all of you who do not care that the traditions of Holy Mother Church has produced enough Priests for 1900 years I feel sorry for you. The Church was Wise for 1900 years, why change?
 
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ByzCath:
Yes this is one of the stated reasons but it is not a convincing one to me. If this was true then we should not allow older men to move, change jobs, marry, have children, etc…
Well, I’d disagree here. I suspect that experience has proven them right. Remember that in becoming a religious, you are entering into a brotherhood or sisterhood of communal life which is signifigantly different than any of these other environs. An older person who is set in their ways may both have difficulty adjusting to the obedience to superiors and environment there while the community itself might be challendge by these stresses. The policy is probably wise, then.
This will depend on the diocese.
True. I find that in many dioceses, ordinations tend to skew over 30 and sometimes over 40 these days, though.
Sorry but I think I will find much agreement out there. Those who graduate from college do not really have “life experience” as the college environment is different, very acedemic and liberal, and really bares no resemblance to real life.
You’re making too much of my statement. My point was merely that someone who is 21 or so and graduating from college is certainly at a different point in life than a 12 year old altar boy. No?
No, there are minor seminaries, Franscian University at Steubenville has one, there is one in Chicago used by the diocese and many religious orders.
Those are “college seminaries”. There are quite a few (and growing number), actually. The term “minor seminary” tends to get applied to them nowadays since the real minor seminaries (traditionally high school level) are almost all gone. Chicago does happen to have one of the largest remaining “minor seminaries”, Quigley. I went to school there. We also have a college level seminary (St. Joseph’s - previously Niles), connected with Loyola University. The college level seminary was created here in the 60’s, breaking off the “philosophers” from their old place of study at the major seminary in Mundelein. Nonetheless, college seminaries these days usually also represent a break in the natural progression of “lifers” in making of priests, whereby most men used to attend Catholic grade school, minor seminary, philosophy, theology. Now they enter either during or post college.
Anyways, there is no such thing as “recruitment” for vocations. Either one is called or one is not. When someone finds a person that they think may have a calling it is up to them to let that person know.
There is where I will disagree with you. Coming from a “lifer” background, especially.

Yes, either one is called or one is not. But one needs both exposure and discernment time to figure that out. It’s not magic. As such, it’s important to put out feelers and provide men with the opportunity to explore the possibility. That is what many programs as well as seminary, itself, is all about. Plenty of people who enter seminary don’t get ordained, afterall. All the more so at the lower levels, it is a place not just of training to be a priest, but discovery about oneself. But how would they have even come to consider these possibilities were they not recruited or invited in some way?
 
Based on paragraph #47 of Redemptionis Sacramentum, I am guessing the Church is slowly preparing the ground-work to phase-out female altar servers, thanks be to God:

It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes. Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.”
 
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ByzCath:
Yes this is one of the stated reasons but it is not a convincing one to me. If this was true then we should not allow older men to move, change jobs, marry, have children, etc…

This will depend on the diocese.

Sorry but I think I will find much agreement out there. Those who graduate from college do not really have “life experience” as the college environment is different, very acedemic and liberal, and really bares no resemblance to real life.

No, there are minor seminaries, Franscian University at Steubenville has one, there is one in Chicago used by the diocese and many religious orders.

Anyways, there is no such thing as “recruitment” for vocations. Either one is called or one is not. When someone finds a person that they think may have a calling it is up to them to let that person know.
Bishop Quigley HS Seminary closed quite some time ago as a HS seminary
 
Pariah Pirana:
Bishop Quigley HS Seminary closed quite some time ago as a HS seminary
I was talking about college level seminaries not High School seminaries.

There is a college level seminary for college students just starting college in the Chicago area.
 
Pariah Pirana:
Bishop Quigley HS Seminary closed quite some time ago as a HS seminary
You’re wrong:

www.quigley.org/

I was there just 3 weeks ago, hosting an alumni fundraising event. It’s alive, well, and quite vibrant. One of the largest preparatory seminaries in the nation.

What happenned was a reorganization about 15 years ago. Quigley South closed. The old building which had become Quigely North remained, though the school itself was technically abandoned so that North and South could merge and be reorganized as a distinct school which is now referred to as “Archbishop Quigley”.

The college level seminary for the Archdiocese of Chicago is now St. Joseph’s, housed in an old dorm on the campus of Loyola University. It used to be Niles College, also associated with Loyola but on it’s own campus. They sold off that property and moved to Loyola about 10 years ago.

stjoseph.luc.edu/

St. Joes takes guys who graduated from Quigley as well as others who are college age and exploring this vocation, including some candidates from other countries (they have an ESL program). Quigley grads who wish to continue exploring a vocation also sometimes end up going other places (religious orders or other college seminaries).
 
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