Altar Girls in Cassock/Surplice

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I am a convert (I have been Catholic for about two weeks) and I have a few questions if the won’t derail the thread too much. In order to come to a position on girl altar servers and what they should wear (if they should be there), 1) what is the origin of altar servers? (has the Church had them for a long time? what was/is their purpose?) 2) are they necessary for the celebration of mass or is their use encouraged in the mass or are they meant to be a help only if needed? 3) If they have traditionally been male, what is the theological argument for now allowing female altar servers? 4) has the church said it is good for there to be female altar servers or is it simply something they have allowed or not specifically barred for the time being? 5) I have seen mentions of acolytes and sub-deacons. What were their roles and why were these minor orders abolished?
 
Julia_Mae said:
I have never found anything at all disturbing in any way about altar girls. Maybe more focus on God and less on personnel would be in order.
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Umm did you know that the OP said
While I am pleased that this priest has decided to have his servers wear the traditional vestments (there was a boy wearing them, too), there was something even more disturbing** about altar girls when they are wearing clerical vestments**.
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So, this whole thread basically got off topic right away 😃

Just had to add my :twocents:
 
Now for my own thoughts:

Am i against altar girls?

No, because nuns altar serve at the convent. So, you can basically prepare the altar girls for a possible vocation.

Am i against altar girls wearing clerical vestments reserved for men?

Yes, we need to keep to the Church’s tradition
 
Aren’t altar girls an indult? If so, then that can be taken away. It’s not the case that they must be used. A priest can’t say he doesn’t want to use them, and that’s it.

Altar boys act in place of clergy, don’t they? Yet a woman can’t be a priest or deacon. It’s a confusion.

Posters here should not confuse ‘The Church’ with a fashion-conscious clique within The Church.
 
TempleServant said:
Aren’t altar girls an indult? If so, then that can be taken away. It’s not the case that they must be used. A priest can’t say he doesn’t want to use them, and that’s it.

Altar boys act in place of clergy, don’t they? Yet a woman can’t be a priest or deacon. It’s a confusion.

Posters here should not confuse ‘The Church’ with a fashion-conscious clique within The Church.
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Altar servers act in the place of the acolyte. Acolytes are not clergy.
 
For a priest, the alb is a sacred liturgical vestment. My parish uses red cassocks and surplices for both boys and girls. We have had no problems with girls thinking they can ever be priests. I have not heard one girl share any desire for the priesthood for themselves.
 
For a priest, the alb is a sacred liturgical vestment. My parish uses red cassocks and surplices for both boys and girls. We have had no problems with girls thinking they can ever be priests. I have not heard one girl share any desire for the priesthood for themselves.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Maybe some posters here should let the Bishops and Pastors who use young women as servers know they are doing it wrong. Or, did you agree they are doing it wrong and not want to attack those posters?

There is not one thing “wrong” with having female altar servers or the Church would not allow the option. They wear what altar servers are required to wear. The Bishops and Pastors make these choices. It’s actually none of our business.

More focus on God, less on personnel is still my opinion.
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Hi and blessings in Christ to you and other posters here.

As a fairly new convert, I’m interested in this discussion. My understanding is that the Church is allowing female altar servers.:angel1::gopray2:

I understand those who may have their own preferences, but Church ruling is Church ruling. So I was surprised to learn that females may not be allowed to wear the same garb as males while serving, because the male garb is considered “clerical.”

Can you help me out on what the different types of garb/dress are? :harp:I noticed a female altar server today in what looked very similar to what the young male server was wearing, but as I’m new, I can’t be sure. If I hadn’t seen this discussion/ thread, I probably would never have noticed. If female servers wear the exact same garment, does that necessarily mean that they, the females, are wearing clerical garb?:nun1::knight1:

A scripture comes to mind just now, and although I can’t tell you the exact verse, it says “In Christ there is no male nor female.” That said, I have* never* been one to feel “left out” when women are not allowed to be priests, because that is a rule that comes from the Magisterium. Things may change in the future, but for now, I like to go by the rules.:highprayer:

I always like to remember that if Our Lady were asked, what might she feel or say or teach us about the discussion? I certainly believe that Our Lady would be very welcomed to help serve at the altar. She would have no desire to be or dress like a priest, as she is fully secure in her elevated “status” already. I just wonder what Our Lady would feel about this. But the Magisterium seems to have spoken, female altar servers are welcome, and if there is a diocese, Bishop or priest who prefers otherwise, I believe they are allowed to have their wishes followed.

Are there exact rules (from Rome) dictating that both genders serving at the altar must wear different clothing? Or is this also left up to the local Bishop/Priest/Diocese?

I respect other’s opinions here.:bowdown2: I’m just needing help on what the rules are. At my parish today, there might have been subtle differences in what the males/females were wearing and I might not have known the difference. They each did their assigned tasks beautifully, and seemed to work in perfect harmony.

Many blessings to all here,
Kathryn Ann:heaven:
 
If you research the history of female altar servers you will find that the practice started as an ABUSE, mostly in the USA. Rome waiting so long in addressing the problem that by the time they decided to say anything the practice was widespread. That is why the use of female altar servers must be permitted by a Bishop and then AGAIN be permitted by the Priest.

The simple fact is that service at the altar was always thought to be for those in a clerical state. Before VII this would be those who had entered the seminary and when enough of them were not present, lay men could be subs for acolytes (which is still an clerical state).

The whole idea of Rome allows them means nothing to those who know their history. Female altar servers started out as abuse, not as any type of newly granted permission by Rome that came about on it’s own.

It is a simple FACT that when females are added as altar servers the number of young males performing this function drops. Young boys and even pre-teen boys do NOT like to be working with girls, despite when feminism trys to push today.
 
moon1234 said:
If you research the history of female altar servers you will find that the practice started as an ABUSE, mostly in the USA. Rome waiting so long in addressing the problem that by the time they decided to say anything the practice was widespread. That is why the use of female altar servers must be permitted by a Bishop and then AGAIN be permitted by the Priest.

The simple fact is that service at the altar was always thought to be for those in a clerical state. Before VII this would be those who had entered the seminary and when enough of them were not present, lay men could be subs for acolytes (which is still an clerical state).

The whole idea of Rome allows them means nothing to those who know their history. Female altar servers started out as abuse, not as any type of newly granted permission by Rome that came about on it’s own.

It is a simple FACT that when females are added as altar servers the number of young males performing this function drops. Young boys and even pre-teen boys do NOT like to be working with girls, despite when feminism trys to push today.
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A pet peeve of mine is when people use the word literally and then say something metaphorically. Or in your case when someone states something as a fact and then gives their opinion. It is not a fact that female altar servers have caused young boys to drop out. That is your assumption.

Even if you believe that the Church’s reasons for allowing female altar servers is not sufficient it would still be virtuous to accept the Church’s decision in this regard and to stop dwelling on it.
 
EcceAgnusDei said:
I recently saw at an OF mass an altar girl wearing a cassock and surplice. While I am pleased that this priest has decided to have his servers wear the traditional vestments (there was a boy wearing them, too), there was something even more disturbing about altar girls when they are wearing clerical vestments.

Has anyone else seen this? Is this a step forward or back? I feel like it is a step in the wrong direction as it further blurs the gender distinction in the liturgy, it seems to legitimate altar girls even more, and finally it meshes traditional and modern practices in a way that seems denigrating to the traditional.

What do you think?
  • PAX
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It’s terrible. Girls should not be altar servers, period. It’s completely contrary to tradition. Not only that, they scare away boys from the task, which is traditionally the biggest pool for vocations to the priesthood. “Girl altar servers” is simply another liberal innovation introduced in the name of feminism and inclusiveness.

Hope I helped.
 
A boy probably doesn’t have a vocation if all it takes is the presence of a girl to spoil his vocation. Remember a true vocation is a calling from God. Many of the young men coming out of the seminary today have altar served in their youth with girls and they listened to God’s call.
 
Cathryn said:
A boy probably doesn’t have a vocation if all it takes is the presence of a girl to spoil his vocation. Remember a true vocation is a calling from God. Many of the young men coming out of the seminary today have altar served in their youth with girls and they listened to God’s call.
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An some of us did not serve at the altar until we were far along in our vocational discernment.

As for the alb being a “sacred” garment of the priest. The alb is our baptismal garment.
 
BenedictusFidem said:
It’s terrible. Girls should not be altar servers, period. It’s completely contrary to tradition. Not only that, they scare away boys from the task, which is traditionally the biggest pool for vocations to the priesthood. “Girl altar servers” is simply another liberal innovation introduced in the name of feminism and inclusiveness.

Hope I helped.
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Actually, I think the drop in vocations is due to contraception and that large numbers of vocations can be correlated to having large, strong Catholic families.

When Catholic families were big and everyone lived together, everyone knew someone who was a priest, or knew of the family up the block who had a priest in the family. Now the few children we do have move half way across the country and nobody has a priest in their family or knows a priest.

All the vocations are now coming from large, strong Asian and Hispanic familes. Quit contraception and vocations will go up.

-Tim-
 
LucyLight said:
A pet peeve of mine is when people use the word literally and then say something metaphorically. Or in your case when someone states something as a fact and then gives their opinion. It is not a fact that female altar servers have caused young boys to drop out. That is your assumption.

Even if you believe that the Church’s reasons for allowing female altar servers is not sufficient it would still be virtuous to accept the Church’s decision in this regard and to stop dwelling on it.
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I knew an ancient MC who backed up this ‘assumption’. After decades on the job, I’d guess he’d know. It’s not a virtue to stop questioning this practice. It’s an indult. Altar girls can be dropped at any time. You cannot force a priest to allow altar girls, as a class of server.

Lay altar boys are used instead of clergy and girls are used instead of boys. A mass said by a bishop, attended by priests, is the standard of the Mass, I understand, in terms of participants. Anything else is a concession of one sort or another.
 
Cathryn said:
A boy probably doesn’t have a vocation if all it takes is the presence of a girl to spoil his vocation. Remember a true vocation is a calling from God. Many of the young men coming out of the seminary today have altar served in their youth with girls and they listened to God’s call.
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If he’s put off from serving at all by the presence of girls the odds are increased he’ll never find out if he has a vocation. I doubt many priests actually hear Jesus speak to them out loud or see him in a vision.

They try it out. They ‘try their vocation’.

At age 8, one thing you’re pretty sure about: you don’t want to play with girls.

It’s pretty funny when liberal dioceses wail about low vocation numbers. They think “What can we do to attract men?”. Perhaps they don’t think what they might be doing to put them off.
 
TempleServant said:
If he’s put off from serving at all by the presence of girls the odds are increased he’ll never find out if he has a vocation. I doubt many priests actually hear Jesus speak to them out loud or see him in a vision.

They try it out. They ‘try their vocation’.

At age 8, one thing you’re pretty sure about: you don’t want to play with girls.

It’s pretty funny when liberal dioceses wail about low vocation numbers. They think “What can we do to attract men?”. Perhaps they don’t think what they might be doing to put them off.
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I do not understand why a parent of a boy who felt strongly about his serving would not make him serve. Where are all these 8-year-olds whose parents simply let them make decisions like that on their own? I certainly never had that level of autonomy.
 
Baelor said:
I do not understand why a parent of a boy who felt strongly about his serving would not make him serve. Where are all these 8-year-olds whose parents simply let them make decisions like that on their own? I certainly never had that level of autonomy.
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That’s right, make him work with those whispering, bossy girls. Keep up the pressure for years. Let him cringe and grind his teeth in the sanctuary. If he doesn’t like it, it’s HIS fault!

Way to foster a vocation.

But you never know.

He might become a nun!
😃
 
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