Altar girls, jeans, and Crocs

[agapewolf]

This happens a lot at our parish. In fact, they didn’t schedule any servers for Stations this afternoon. I know they don’t need any, but the Deacon likes to have at least one.

So, as we walked in, we saw the deacon. My son was drafted to serve. He had on jeans and athletic shoes. He also served last night. He had on dress pants and dress shoes. But when he doesn’t know he is serving, he doesn’t dress for it. And he doesn’t have three nice outfits to wear three days in a row.

TA DA! There you have it. Lets all try to be more charitable and focus on our own prayer (the plank in our eye) than others, because just maybe, there might be a reason such as above.

 

[Salonika]

What a sad thread.

Wraggling over externals on one of the most important days of the Church’s year and in some cases allowing it overwhelm the observance of Good Friday.

I should have resisted the temptation to read it. Now I am going to work on refocussing myself.

 

[Matariel]

You were manipulative when you said

Okay. Sorry. I had a terrible day, and I let minor things bug me. Sorry.

I never made you sound “no good”.

No, it was just that I said I was contemplating sending an anonymous letter, and then everyone said, no, you have no guts to do that, or that it’s cowardly.

Upon further reflexion I realized that wasn’t a good idea, but really…

 

[agapewolf]

Okay. Sorry. I had a terrible day, and I let minor things bug me. Sorry.

I never made you sound “no good”.

No, it was just that I said I was contemplating sending an anonymous letter, and then everyone said, no, you have no guts to do that, or that it’s cowardly.

Upon further reflexion I realized that wasn’t a good idea, but really…

Again, no one referred to YOU when talking about generic anonymous letters.

Jesus had a bad day today too.

Welcome to the Catholic Church.

 

[PacoG]

Today was Good Friday. As everyone went up to venerate the cross (a plain, empty cross) two altar girls were to the sides. As I went up to kiss the cross, I noticed once again distracting fact that the girls, underneath their albs (which were too short, only about knee-length) they were wearing jeans and pink and lime green Croc shoes. Throughout the service, I found I couldn’t concentrate due to that.

---

Sorry if this seems like such a minor issue, but I find it unbelievingly distracting.

Any thoughts?

I think the issue here is far deeper than rules and regulations and the length of albs. We are talking about the interior battles that we all face at Mass. The interior battle we wage against distraction is a lot more important than shoes and jeans and the length of albs. Further, I think we all get so tied up at complaining about abuses (or perceived abuses) that we forget the larger picture.

When I was reading your posting, I remembered reading about this in the Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Scott Hahn. On pages 143 and 144, he specifically addresses overcoming distraction at Mass as one of the internal battles we have to fight with ourselves and the devil. It’s a major battle. To quote Dr. Hahn:

Knowing the power of grace, the devil will most forcefully assault us, says one ancient teacher, "at the time of the great feasts and during the Divine Liturgy–especially when we are intending to receive Holy Communion.

What is our particular combat during Mass? Maybe it’s warding off contempt for the worshiper whose perfume is too strong, or the man who sings the wrong lyrics off-key. Maybe it’s holding back our judgment against the parishioner who’s skipping out early. Maybe it’s turning the other way when we begin to wonder how low that neckline really goes. Maybe it’s fighting off smugness when we hear a homily riddled with grammatical errors. Maybe it’s smiling, in an understanding way, at the mom with the screaming baby.

Those are the tough battles…**ecause they’re so perfectly hidden, so interior, they require greater heroism. No one but God and His angels will notice that you didn’t mentally critique Father’s homily this week. No one but God and His angels will notice that you withheld judgment against the family that was under-dressed. So you don’t get a medal; you win a battle instead. **

 

[Barbi]

I think the issue here is far deeper than rules and regulations and the length of albs. We are talking about the interior battles that we all face at Mass. The interior battle we wage against distraction is a lot more important than shoes and jeans and the length of albs. Further, I think we all get so tied up at complaining about abuses (or perceived abuses) that we forget the larger picture.

When I was reading your posting, I remembered reading about this in the Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Scott Hahn. On pages 143 and 144, he specifically addresses overcoming distraction at Mass as one of the internal battles we have to fight with ourselves and the devil. It’s a major battle. To quote Dr. Hahn:

Knowing the power of grace, the devil will most forcefully assault us, says one ancient teacher, "at the time of the great feasts and during the Divine Liturgy–especially when we are intending to receive Holy Communion.

What is our particular combat during Mass? Maybe it’s warding off contempt for the worshiper whose perfume is too strong, or the man who sings the wrong lyrics off-key. Maybe it’s holding back our judgment against the parishioner who’s skipping out early. Maybe it’s turning the other way when we begin to wonder how low that neckline really goes. Maybe it’s fighting off smugness when we hear a homily riddled with grammatical errors. Maybe it’s smiling, in an understanding way, at the mom with the screaming baby.

Those are the tough battles…**ecause they’re so perfectly hidden, so interior, they require greater heroism. No one but God and His angels will notice that you didn’t mentally critique Father’s homily this week. No one but God and His angels will notice that you withheld judgment against the family that was under-dressed. So you don’t get a medal; you win a battle instead. **

Perfectly put PacoG. That was perfect!

 

[Barbi]

matariel i sent you a PM. I hope it helps a bit.

 

[Lycoming]

What a sad thread.

Wraggling over externals on one of the most important days of the Church’s year and in some cases allowing it overwhelm the observance of Good Friday.

I should have resisted the temptation to read it. Now I am going to work on refocussing myself.

Yeah, it’s sad that servers would dress that way…

I must say I had quite the opposite experience today. 3 servers. All clearly brothers maybe 14-18 in age. Military-crisp in how they served at the altar without a hint of severity or pomposity. For a few seconds it did hit me – someone (parents and pastor) took their time with these 3 lads and I’m glad they did.

 

[top_cat]

This reminds me of a transformation

2 years ago a young Priest I know went into his his first Parish and commented quietly to me after his first few Masses there that some things were going to change - the servers - they didn’t know what to do , went to do it or worse still how to do it. They chatted and generally dressed badly

I went there recently - and there were 8 servers - 4 boys and 4 girls , all dressed correctly. I never noticed them moving around , everything was done as it should be . they didn’t fidgit, they were silent but when they had to do something they were there .

Silence reigned when it should have done. After Communion the Priest did the ablutions - ALL the Chalices 6 of them !! and they were needed ] and then returned to his chair for silent reflection. You could have heard a pin drop - utter silence and no-one moved .

The transformation was striking - and all down to someone taking some trouble .

Now today and tomorrow I can see that there is one parish in Italy which may well have bady attired altar servers .

Let us all remember that tragedy and pray for them at what should be a joyful time - they have truly shared in the agony and pain of Christ’s Passion this Holy Week

 

[Lycoming]

I think the issue here is far deeper than rules and regulations and the length of albs. We are talking about the interior battles that we all face at Mass. The interior battle we wage against distraction is a lot more important than shoes and jeans and the length of albs. Further, I think we all get so tied up at complaining about abuses (or perceived abuses) that we forget the larger picture.

When I was reading your posting, I remembered reading about this in the Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth by Scott Hahn. On pages 143 and 144, he specifically addresses overcoming distraction at Mass as one of the internal battles we have to fight with ourselves and the devil. It’s a major battle. To quote Dr. Hahn:

Knowing the power of grace, the devil will most forcefully assault us, says one ancient teacher, "at the time of the great feasts and during the Divine Liturgy–especially when we are intending to receive Holy Communion.

What is our particular combat during Mass? Maybe it’s warding off contempt for the worshiper whose perfume is too strong, or the man who sings the wrong lyrics off-key. Maybe it’s holding back our judgment against the parishioner who’s skipping out early. Maybe it’s turning the other way when we begin to wonder how low that neckline really goes. Maybe it’s fighting off smugness when we hear a homily riddled with grammatical errors. Maybe it’s smiling, in an understanding way, at the mom with the screaming baby.

Those are the tough battles…**ecause they’re so perfectly hidden, so interior, they require greater heroism. No one but God and His angels will notice that you didn’t mentally critique Father’s homily this week. No one but God and His angels will notice that you withheld judgment against the family that was under-dressed. So you don’t get a medal; you win a battle instead. **
I’m no great fan of Scott Hahn but I really do appreciate your posting. To be quite candid I don’t think it will even make sense to some people.

When it comes to the Mass, I think most Catholics stay pretty much in the dark when it comes to the technical rubrics. Those that tend to dig a bit deeper are typically the sort that are upset by irregularities and abuses – real or imagined.

It really does take a lot of prayer and focus to get to the next level where we are not distracted – where we do not allow problems to impact our experience of the Mass. A group of us used to joke about “the ministry of looking down (at the floor)” when something objectionable reared its ugly head, but that’s what it took for some of us.

The next level after that is someone who is at peace during the Mass but also works outside of the Mass to ensure that it is celebrated in the most reverent way possible.

 

[csg1976]

LOL, thank you.

 

[sonofourlady]

Today was Good Friday. As everyone went up to venerate the cross (a plain, empty cross) two altar girls were to the sides. As I went up to kiss the cross, I noticed once again distracting fact that the girls, underneath their albs (which were too short, only about knee-length) they were wearing jeans and pink and lime green Croc shoes. Throughout the service, I found I couldn’t concentrate due to that.

What’s worse, is, last Sunday (Passion Sunday) they did the same thing. They never wear anything formal, you can always see their jeans and shoes and sometimes athletic pants.

Sigh. It’s super-distracting, and, even worse, tomorrow is Easter Vigil, when we join the Church. If they wear that get-up again… well, I just can’t stand it.

Does anyone know of any way I can kindly inform someone about how distracting this is to the Mass, and actually effect change?

Sorry if this seems like such a minor issue, but I find it unbelievingly distracting.

Any thoughts?

Hi Matariel, I would like to echo some of the other posters comments about this sad situation.

It would appear that since you are a convert that changing parishes is not something you can do so you might have to grin and bear it for the next two days. Perhaps these girls, won’t be serving so you won’t get distracted.

As for writing an anonymous letter, I have to agree to the point that a parish priest would generally disregard it, for the very reason that it is anonymous.

However, I take exception to people here who are admonishing her for getting distracted at Mass. I know that some people can not let it bother them, but not everyone is like that.

I would agree its not a liturgical abuse but it is showing poor class.

Matariel, the suggestion that you get involved in the altar server group at the parish sounds like a good idea. I would suggest that if you do, ask the Priest what his thoughts are on a dress code if any should be enacted, that way you don’t enact a policy that the Priest won’t support.

My prayers are with you.

 

[japhy]

When it comes to the Mass, I think most Catholics stay pretty much in the dark when it comes to the technical rubrics. Those that tend to dig a bit deeper are typically the sort that are upset by irregularities and abuses – real or imagined.

I was once ignorant about the liturgical law of the Church, and now I’m not. Without trying to sound over-important or victim-ish, once you’re not ignorant about something, it can be an awful burden to bear. I know, for example, that pouring the Precious Blood is something you should not do, so when I see it, I get upset: why should I, a regular lay Catholic, know more about the liturgical law of the Church than some ordained man? I’m sure in some cases abuses happen by accident (rather than by ignorance), but my reaction is the same. And then I wonder, should I say something about this, or will I be treated like some rubrical snob who wants things his way, and ignored?

A group of us used to joke about “the ministry of looking down (at the floor)” when something objectionable reared its ugly head, but that’s what it took for some of us.

That (and/or closing my eyes) is often what I do to prevent my mind from continuing to dwell on some distraction I see. I try to “offer it up,” but I also ask immediately for forgiveness for myself for being so quick to react internally at something that might be beyond the person’s control.

 

[Phemie]

I
It really does take a lot of prayer and focus to get to the next level where we are not distracted – where we do not allow problems to impact our experience of the Mass. A group of us used to joke about “the ministry of looking down (at the floor)” when something objectionable reared its ugly head, but that’s what it took for some of us.

The next level after that is someone who is at peace during the Mass but also works outside of the Mass to ensure that it is celebrated in the most reverent way possible.

Having taken a course on evaluating Liturgy, I find it difficult to be at a Mass where things are done as I know they shouldn’t be. That means that I often spend most of the Mass with my eyes closed, perhaps leading people to think I’m asleep or feeling particularly holy. Usually I’m just struggling to stay focused on what is being said and avoiding the visuals.

It’s particularly painful when you’re in a position to know that the proper way to do things was discussed and rejected before a particular Liturgy.

As for the altar servers, yesterday we had 7, none of whom had been prepared for what they had to do. One of the girls yesterday served in stocking feet and the other varied from sealskin slippers to mostly running shoes. We have no dress code for the servers and the priest would be horrified if we even suggested it.

Only the youngest, whose head is the only thing we see above the altar, is always impeccably dressed and wearing black dress shoes. She knows exactly what to do at regular Mass; in fact, she’s helping her grandfather brush up on his server skill as they often serve together at the anticipated Sunday Mass.

 

[Brian777]

Sorry, I can’t. I’m entering the Church this Easter, and this is where I am being initiated tomorrow. Confirmed and First Communion.

Congratulations! Welcome to Holy Mother Church!

 

[WhollyRoamin]

That’s horrible advice in more than one way. I thought were past hearing this sort of advice on this forum. Please take it to the “traditional” forum.

Are you quite finished? Traditional Catholics are not second-class-Catholics.

And frankly, I still maintain that it is the best way to remedy the situation. Pastors have a awful time trying to keep everyone happy; they spend an inordinate time just “putting out fires” of people compaining that the choir can’t sing, the bathrooms are littered, the congregation is wearing vampire shirts, the congregation is wearing ugly neckties, the altar boys are girls, the altar girls are wearing jeans and Crocs. After a while, the priests just say “forget it all!” and ignore the complaints.

Vote with you feet. And your tithe. It’s not about “parish hopping”, it’s about finding a parish that brings dignity to the Mass, dignity to the Altar and puts their best before the Lord.

And kindly, fellow Catholic, we all have an interest in Liturgy and Sacraments. Trad or not.

 

[redrosetea]

Everything is so casual now…When my son was a server Fr made it a point to tell the boys they were not to wear tennis shoes on the altar, but a leather shoe, that was polished…there were no girls serving back then

It is a shame some parents don’t seem to understand that church is special, but you have to give them credit for bringing their children to church

That is what really matters in all of this

I think it is Fr’s place to put something in the bulletin about proper church attire for servers…

 

[CWBetts]

Are you quite finished? Traditional Catholics are not second-class-Catholics.

And frankly, I still maintain that it is the best way to remedy the situation. Pastors have a awful time trying to keep everyone happy; they spend an inordinate time just “putting out fires” of people compaining that the choir can’t sing, the bathrooms are littered, the congregation is wearing vampire shirts, the congregation is wearing ugly neckties, the altar boys are girls, the altar girls are wearing jeans and Crocs. After a while, the priests just say “forget it all!” and ignore the complaints.

Vote with you feet. And your tithe. It’s not about “parish hopping”, it’s about finding a parish that brings dignity to the Mass, dignity to the Altar and puts their best before the Lord.

And kindly, fellow Catholic, we all have an interest in Liturgy and Sacraments. Trad or not.

But it does seem to bee the Traditionalists that are out of touch with reality. Abuses come from people, not from the Sacred Liturgy. By sayong that only Tridentene parishes are reverent, you are saying that the O.F. is the source of abuses. The “Latin Only” people are of the same type as werw offended when the Mass switched to Latin (the language of the people" from the original Greek! My guess is even if the Liturgy did return to Latin, you would just find something else to crow about.

 

[yellowbird]

I think it is Fr’s place to put something in the bulletin about proper church attire for servers…

For the past several years we’ve had more traditional younger Priests at our parish who have made things in general much LESS casual. We now have 6 altar servers at all times, always wearing black dress pants and black shoes. Occasionally there will be a boy wearing tennis shoes but I just assume he’s been asked to fill in at the last moment.

I think crocs are soooooooooo inappropriate… as are flip flops which I also see at visiting parishes. So OP, I totally agree with you.

But here’s the thing… I am not the least bit suprised that seeing those girls in crocs bugged you so much that you could hardly focus on the mass. It has NOT been so many years since I was right where you are now, getting ready to be received into the Church and during those last few weeks, Satan threw every single thing he could at me to try to get me to change my mind. EVERYTHING seemed to drive me nuts and I began to wonder if I was making a huge mistake? I am sooooooooooo thankful I was able, through much prayer, to seperate the people (who are imperfect, as am I) from the Church, which is WONDERFUL. Try to keep yourself focused on HIM. This is His Church and you will be so richly blessed for being a part of it.

God bless you!!!

 

[WhollyRoamin]

But it does seem to bee the Traditionalists that are out of touch with reality. Abuses come from people, not from the Sacred Liturgy. By sayong that only Tridentene parishes are reverent, you are saying that the O.F. is the source of abuses. The “Latin Only” people are of the same type as werw offended when the Mass switched to Latin (the language of the people" from the original Greek! My guess is even if the Liturgy did return to Latin, you would just find something else to crow about.

The TLM can contain abuses, you are correct. And I agree with your analysis that it is people who abuse, not any particular form of the Mass. However, the complexity and forumlarity of the TLM lends itself to not be abused. The priests offering the TLM today have made a conscious decision to adhere to a form of the Mass that is hard to do, so why would they do it incorrectly on purpose?

It’s not a matter of being “offended”. I’m not sure that I even believe that being offended (by itself) is some reason for someone to change any kind of behavior… not that it’s the point of this conversation. BUT. If you’ve got a parish who doesn’t care about bringing dignity to the altar, then find one that does.

Out of touch with reality? How polite.