Altar Rail Puts Communicants on Right Track

[JimR-OCDS]

Depends on the reason to drink communally out of the cup.

In the Massm it’s part of the liturgy to offer the Blessed Sacrament in both species.

The Church tries to make it germ free as possible.

Allowing a person to dip their hand into the cup, only adds to the risks of spreading infection.

Jim

 

[pnewton]

Angels do not have bodies; they do not literally stand or kneel.

In Scripture, when they are described, they do. The point made should not be disregarded. John, Isaiah, Jacob, could have just as easily seen kneeling angels, but they did not. I think the point was a valid one based not on what angels do, but how angels were revealed to us.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Do you all kneel after Communion when you go back to your pew? Until the Priest says the concluding prayer and blessing?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Nearly two years ago a change was made to the administration of the Holy Bread at the Spanish Masses : it can only be received directly on the tongue, and never in the hand.

That should be reported to the Bishop.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Not that likely, the people behind are usually moving slowly enough to prevent tragedy

Well, I have experienced it personally, as Presider and as one assisting at the liturgy in other capacities.

I have the knowledge and memory of what I have experienced in my own life…which no other person on this forum does.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

That’s some Protestant episcopalian garbage, not orthodox Catholic discipline by any means.

The celebration of the Eucharist in the Anglican Communion is not “some Protestant episcopalian garbage.”

The rules of the Forum are quite clear:

Catholics must be charitable in their discussions about non-Catholic belief and practice.

As Catholics, we affirm what the world’s bishops declared at the ecumenical council in Unitatis Reditegratio:

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

 

[Joe_5859]

That’s the standard practice at most of the parishes I have been to. Often, people sit when the presider sits after the purification of the vessels. I’m usually not watching the priest at that point and tend to kneel until its time to stand.

This is all provided I’m not already sitting while trying to keep my son from being too disruptive.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Don, I take it you mean the kneeler tripping up the communicant behind them, thus sending them tumbling into the minister holding the Eucharist, and scattering consecrated hosts all about?

That has not happened to me personlly. What has happened is where a person has fallen because of someone ahead of them suddenly throwing themselves upon their knees.

In one case, it caused a near riot in the church as the person kneeling was a stranger and the person who fell – and was injured – a beloved elderly member of the parish. The person who fell was continually crying out in pain because the injury was in fact extensive. Meanwhile the people who saw what happened immediately throttled the person who had knelt. An ambulance had to be summoned for the one injured…who never recovered to return to the parish.

To the other part of your scenario, one instance in the diocese where I was not present involved a person attempting to kneel, miscalculating, and hitting the Deacon…it did not cause him to draw the ciborium but it sent several Hosts flying out of the ciborium and on to the floor. At my age, if someone fell into me as I was holding the ciborium, it would be catastrophic…which is why if someone seems to be about to kneel i back up so that if they fall, they will not fall on to me.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Merely placing my hand over the cup, as I was instructed to do and I had to to it twice, didn’t cause and argument.

That is indeed the standard and correct procedure for blocking this attempt of self-intinction by laity.

 

[Spyridon]

You’re right, Don, my comment was not something a Bishop or our Holy Father would say.

I repent in dust and ashes, and I will edit the post now.

It now reads:

That’s a practice in Protestant episcopalian communities, not orthodox Catholic discipline by any means.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I sit in between two large families, unless in the choir loft. Their babies and young children are adorable. The toddlers are just toddling and very hard to contain.

Cajun I should have qualified by saying kneel if physically able.

Regarding all receiving on the tongue because of potential host stealing, Jesus wouldn’t let demons speak when he cast them out of people, and only responded to temptation , in the desert , with Scripture. Holy Father Pope Francis tells us not to dialogue with the devil.

I wonder if that response is inadvertently dialogue with the devil,. In my Parishes the Host must be consumed immediately. That’s where EMCH are gold. Telling people if needed. And consumed before reaching the Chalice.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Spyridon The term Don Ruggero is like Father Ruggero. Don is not the first name.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

It’s certainly happened in our parish, An elderly partially-sighted lady fell over the person in front in the line, when they suddenly dropped to their knees without warning or simply checking behind them.

She never left her house again, because of her injuries and because she lost her confidence.

I always sought to be attentive to those who were older and/or mobility impaired, going back to my youth, the experiences with my grandparents and so forth. But now that I am myself elderly, it is something quite different to experience the effects of being aged.

When I was a young man, if someone bumped into me, it had no real effect on me…unless they hit me square on. If someone today brushes against me, I can stumble.

A group of children running around me and, invariably, coming too close to me can make me momentarily unsteady.

I remember when I was younger, one of the priests who had been one of my own professors losing his balance beside me. I caught him and was able to hold him up until I could get him seated. My professors today are dead but if the same event were to happen, we would both go down. I could no more hold another priest up than I could fly.

Even when I am on the footpath, I notice people who really do not appreciate that those who are older cannot take evasive action as readily as a young person and also may experience more sense of imbalance by the movements of others, as I sometimes do.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I am a Roman Catholic priest…a priest who was assigned at various stages of my life to work on the ecumenical initiatives after the Council…variously with the Orthodox, the Anglicans and the Lutherans.

 

[edwest211]

You’re welcome. (16 characters)

 

[Shakuhachi]

So what is this “Ordinariate”? I know a guy who was some kind of Anglican Priest but he has no theology degree. How is that possible. So now that he is Catholic he wants to become Catholic priest through the ordinariate. I imagine he will need to get the M.Div.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

So what is this “Ordinariate”? I know a guy who was some kind of Anglican Priest but he has no theology degree. How is that possible. So now that he is Catholic he wants to become Catholic priest through the ordinariate. I imagine he will need to get the M.Div.

Back in the early 1980s, a group of priests who belonged to the Anglican Communion petitioned the Holy See, through Cardinal Šeper in his official capacity, to reunite with the Roman Church – individually and with their congregations in some cases. This led the Holy Father to grant what was known as the pastoral provision.

Each dossier – for each priest petitioning – had to receive a rescript from the Pope personally. The rescript would dispense the priest from celibacy, if he was married, and make provision for what was needed for ordination as a Catholic priest. The priest would be incardinated into a welcoming diocese.

With Anglicanorum coetibus, Pope Benedict shortly after his election created the Ordinariates as a stable structure in the Church for these people. There is one in the United Kingdom, one for the United States and Canada and one for Australia.

At the head of the Ordinariate in the Ordinary. In essence, it functions like a diocese but its geographic extension is much much greater. It can itself incardinate clergy as well as have pastoral governance and jurisdiction over laity in the way a Bishop does over his diocese.

The question of how an Anglican priest would not have a degree is relatively complex because their methodology of clerical formation is more flexible with much more variations than ours. In other cases, especially when we are talking about elements that are distinct subsets operating autonomously, non-degreed clergy can happen more readily.

In such a case, the Ordinary would make an evaluation of what deficiencies need to be remedied based upon the extent of academic work already completed…or not completed.

The current Ordinary for the United States and Canada is a former official of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and is ordained as a bishop…he was not a convert and is not a married priest. The other two Ordinaries are former Anglican Bishops. As they are married, they were not raised to the Catholic episcopate. They hold the highest rank of Monsignor, they use all the accoutrements of a bishop, including the throne, by a special indult and they are recognised as full members of the Conference of Bishops in their respective countries.

Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter | About Us | Houston, Texas

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Yes - - that could be a tragedy! It simply would not happen with an altar rail, would it?

I have had people fall at the altar rail.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The rail is not a 6 ft fence. It’s easy to be tripped up or knock into the Priest at the rail. A rail should be designed so the Priest doesn’t need to bend down. That puts it on a platform, one must step up and down to access it.

I am not sure what idea people have of an altar rail. Perhaps I should take some pics of the vintage rails in my rural churches.

If you want to kneel, then kneel. If you need a rail to get down or back up, you are a risk of knocking the Eucharist on your way down or up.

Here is an example, in Europe

 

[Augustinian]

I don’t understand why people would want to kneel when every one is standing, or vice versa for that matter, as an elective matter. If someone is restricted as to movement, that’s one thing.

But whatever happened to the wisdom of Ambrose of Milan, “when in Rome, do as the Romans”?