altar servers?

[remjsmom76]

I have no preference. Well that’s a lie actually I like to see a healthy mix of girls and boys serving at the altar. To me its a way to teach our youth the choice of vocation, yes even girls. I think it shows them that there is more that just the kneeling and the bowing and the praying and stuff. It gets those kids to really learn and I mean really learn what it really means. I know many girls who are very happy that they became servers. They came to know the true meaning of the church where as if they hadn’t done that they said chances were they probably wouldn’t be attending church because they at first thought it was boring and had no meaning to it.

Even if they didn’t choose holy orders later in life, it sets them up with a greater respect and understanding of how to build a good catholic family and helps them teach their future children catholicism better.

 

[Alphonse]

As a former altar boy, I can tell you that serving at Mass - Tridentine and then Novus Ordum was one of the most thrilling things that I did a parochial school youth.

While it did not lead me to a serious vocation - although my best friend from High School did “join up”, it did lead to a lifelong strengthening of my faith, and later a degree in theology, and serving as a minister of the word - lector - for 25 years.

The path to ordination can, and should be, be encouraged, but only through prayer and discernment. I can assure you that there were plenty of reprobates from the altar boy group!

And, we had “dress issues” even then - one of the boys wore “beatle” style shoes under his cassock and caused an uproar, in the assembly, as well as the platoon of sisters seated in the front pews.

The dciocese that you refer to is Arlington, VA, I think where the bishop forbids girls from serving.

Girls have traditionally been the unoffical catechists of the home; what better way to ensure that their children, can cherish, and grow in our faith, than by serving on the altar.

I think that today’s boys realize that girls don’t have “cooties”!

An excluive male model on the altar can do more harm than good. Encouraging vocations is one thing, but seeing gender parity in the few liturgical roles for women, does not a zero sum game make.

Women have been part and parcel of church history, since the early house churches; let’s not also forget that women were the first to proclaim the Resurrection; it was only later that the man came running to catch up.

In the future we may well see women as priests in our churches.

 

[Futurepriest21]

I serve at my church and we do not have a boys choir but the servers are only allowed to be boys and we wear the traditional cassock and surplice.

 

[michaeldaniels]

No NO NO…you are wrong! Just because our culture has changed and feminism has spread and political correctness has spread does not mean the Church was wrong for 1900+ years…Women will never be ordained as Priest…and it angers me to see “Catholics” advocating that…or “Catholics” advocating the Church catch up with the times…The Catholic Church is Truth…it is perfect…it is the individuals within it that are imperfect…maybe we should start conforming to Christ and the teachings of The Church…instead of advocating changes that can not be made to our beliefs and doctrine and insisting that The Church changes to meet our likes and wants…and if you can’t survive in this 21st century as a Catholic…because our culture has been dumbed down and there is no concept of right and wrong and no concept of sin anymore…then it is best…and I say this with the most sincere charity…that you possibly go to one of the protestant Churches that will allow you to do those things…because modernism is a scourge…it is a cancer that needs to be incised from our Church…and advocating women priests and other things like that is counterproductive…and will only confuse less informed Catholics who strive for and want to know the truth…yet they have nuns who no longer wear their habits and talk about women’s ordination…that is confusing…and if you think I am being “un-Catholic” or uncharitable…then refer back to the spiritual works of mercy:

The spiritual works of mercy are:

**•To instruct the ignorant;
•To counsel the doubtful;
•To admonish sinners; **
•To bear wrongs patiently;
•To forgive offences willingly;
•To comfort the afflicted;
•To pray for the living and the dead.

There seems a to be a lot more counselling and instructing going on these days because there are a lot of people walking around out there calling themselves Catholics and they haven’t the slightest clue as to why things are the way they are in The Church…and instead of trying to understand the reasoning behind them, they decide to go on a crusade to change The CHurch…well this is one Catholic who has made it his life’s mission to put an end to it…not on my watch. It is my personal mission to eradicate modernism from our wonderful Church.

An excluive male model on the altar can do more harm than good. Encouraging vocations is one thing, but seeing gender parity in the few liturgical roles for women, does not a zero sum game make.

Women have been part and parcel of church history, since the early house churches; let’s not also forget that women were the first to proclaim the Resurrection; it was only later that the man came running to catch up.

In the future we may well see women as priests in our churches.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

In the future we may well see women as priests in our churches.

Not if you’re talking about Catholic churches. It will never happen, it can never happen. Holy Orders can only be conferred on a baptized male. Holy orders cannot be conferred on a woman; if anyone attempts to do so, it is invalid. This has been definitively taught by the Church and we are required to assent to it.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

At my parish some of the teenage boys serving have more jewelry and bigger earrings than a lot of the adult women who serve.

It saddens me to say the least.

what saddens me is how both altar boys and girls dress like total slobs when serving at the altar. This past Sunday there were both a boy and girl serving who were wearing shorts and flip flops at the altar. Would you dress like a slob if going to a $200.00 a plate restaurant? If no, why dress like a slob in front of God?

 

[Sparki777]

Somebody above suggested that girls (and boys) benefit from being servers because they finally “get” Mass and aren’t so bored.

Sorry, but if the kids are bored, it’s because the parents aren’t doing their jobs. I have three kids, 9, 6 and 5, and I struggle often with how to teach them about Mass so that they see the joy in it, but at least I’m actively doing something. Again, if all you’re doing is setting the kids in a certain seat in Mass and wishing and hoping they’ll grow up to be good, practicing Catholics, that’s not going to cut it.

 

[OhMalley]

**I see this leap made all the time but this problem did not originate with female altar servers. ** For instance, I grew up in a very traditional parish. It was founded around 1848. In 150+ years the parish has produced 2 priests both of whom, though ordained decades apart, grew up under the tutelage of the same pastor (he was our pastor for ~35 years). They also belonged to families of less modest means so they didn’t have to quit school and their families could afford seminary.

In today’s world, where priests are often vilified in the media and even at the supper table, is it any wonder that few men are willing to answer the call?

Thanks for digging a bit deeper. My rather large parish which dates from the late 18th century produced one priestly vocation that I am aware of from the end of WWII to 2002. Since 2002 we have ordained 2 priests and a deacon. We have 3 more at seminary and 1 more in the permanent diaconate program.

It’s nice to blame the priest shortage on “liberals”, female altar girls and all the rest but such views will typically not stand-up to the facts…

 

[michaeldaniels]

Liberals, feminists, and modernists have no place in The Catholic Church…women on the altar as servers, etc., is just a symptom of the overall problem…Catholics have been disobedient for quite some time now to how we are supposed to act and conduct ourselves at Mass…St. Paul clearly states that a woman should wear something covering her head while at Mass, but when you go to the NO Mass, 99+% do not do this…it is no wonder they are now pushing to be priest…we can’t even get the most simple rudimentary things right…People have started thinking they are bigger than The Church and THEY can decide what Catholicism is and should be…not the Church. At the risk of sounding sexist, I want to state that women have a role that is clearly outlined within the Church…and they shouldn’t try to step outside of that role or assume the roles that ONLY men should have. I am not trying to be inflammatory…it is just the simple truth. I am not afraid of getting flamed for speaking the truth.

Matthew 5:11
Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me

“In our time more than ever before, the chief strength of the wicked, lies in the cowardice and weakness of good men… All the strength of Satan’s reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics. Oh! if I might ask the Divine Redeemer, as the prophet Zachary did in spirit: What are those wounds in the midst of Thy hands? The answer would not be doubtful: With these was I wounded in the house of them that loved Me. I was wounded by My friends, who did nothing to defend Me, and who, on every occasion, made themselves the accomplices of My adversaries. And this reproach can be levelled at the weak and timid Catholics of all countries.” --Pope St. Pius X, Discourse at the Beatification of St. Joan of Arc, Dec. 13, 1908

It’s nice to blame the priest shortage on “liberals”, female altar girls and all the rest but such views will typically not stand-up to the facts…

 

[BrokenFortress]

Well, can I just ask a question? I was one who stated that I am happy to see female altar servers. I’m sorry, that won’t change. I do not advocate female priests however and never will. That I do believe is wrong. But why is it wrong to have female altar servers? I think it’s great to have younger generations involved in the Mass. Sure, attending Mass is a good thing, but I think if you can partake in helping out at Mass, you get a deeper appreciation for the Mass. I sing in choir and I know it’s helped me to find a deeper respect for the Mass and a willingness to stay involved.
So if female altar servers are wrong, would not females who are Eucharistic Ministers also wrong? Or is there something different in that?

Yes, females have a place in this world just as men do. Men are called to love their wives (and women in general) just as Jesus loved the Church. They are to treat women as they would want to be treated. I just don’t see how having female altar servers is women stepping into a role they should not have? If you were referring to the post who said they would like to see women priests or whatever then I could understand, but I don’t see how a female altar server is wrong.

 

[OhMalley]

Liberals, feminists, and modernists have no place in The Catholic Church…women on the altar as servers, etc., is just a symptom of the overall problem…Catholics have been disobedient for quite some time now to how we are supposed to act and conduct ourselves at Mass…

“Liberals”, “feminists” and “modernists” (and “liturgical abuses”) are the calling-card accusations of those who typically don’t have any idea what the words actually mean at least in a Church setting. The words have been so misused and overused that they trigger a chuckle more than anything else these days and perhaps a silent prayer for those spewing them.

St. Paul clearly states that a woman should wear something covering her head while at Mass, but when you go to the NO Mass, 99+% do not do this…it is no wonder they are now pushing to be priest…we can’t even get the most simple rudimentary things right…People have started thinking they are bigger than The Church and THEY can decide what Catholicism is and should be…not the Church. At the risk of sounding sexist, I want to state that women have a role that is clearly outlined within the Church…and they shouldn’t try to step outside of that role or assume the roles that ONLY men should have. I am not trying to be inflammatory…it is just the simple truth. I am not afraid of getting flamed for speaking the truth.

And you know what? **The Catholic Church has removed the requirement of women covering their heads in church with the release of the latest version of Canon Law. ** I’ll follow the Church over your personal interpretation of Scripture anytime.

In the end you reject the Catholic Church’s official position (per Canon Law) for your own personal interpreation of Sacred Scripture. In all actuality it sounds like YOU “have started thinking YOU are bigger than The Church and YOU can decide what Catholicism is and should be…not the Church.”

You don’t speak the truth you speak your personal opinion – one that is at odds with the Catholic Church.

 

[John_Lilburne]

The minor orders have been abolished in the Latin Rite of the Church.

Instituted acolytes and lectors are laymen.

Altar servers were typically called “altar boys” in years past.

Nothing “extraordinary” about altar servers.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“98. The acolyte is instituted to serve at the altar and to assist the priest and deacon. In
particular, it is his responsibility to prepare the altar and the sacred vessels and, if it is necessary,
as an extraordinary minister, to distribute the Eucharist to the faithful.84
In the ministry of the altar, the acolyte has his own functions (cf. below, nos. 187-193), which he
must perform personally. …
100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar
and assist the priest and the deacon; they may carry the cross, the candles, the thurible, the
bread, the wine, and the water, and they may also be deputed to distribute Holy Communion as
extraordinary ministers.”

The ordinary ministers to distribute communion are ordained. If an acolyte or altar server does it they do so as extraordinary ministers.

In the same way by saying “In the absence of an instituted acolyte” the GIRM is saying that when other lay people doing these roles they are doing so as extraordinary ministers.

 

[lizaanne]

Here is a link to a video of a typical Sunday Mass

cid-d48dbdc01a7e8a7d.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/Altar%20Boys%20-sm.wmv (choose download)

Aww - that was a Mass with Fr. Val!! Bless his heart, may he rest in peace.

~Liza

 

[OhMalley]

Well, can I just ask a question? I was one who stated that I am happy to see female altar servers. I’m sorry, that won’t change. I do not advocate female priests however and never will. That I do believe is wrong. But why is it wrong to have female altar servers? I think it’s great to have younger generations involved in the Mass. Sure, attending Mass is a good thing, but I think if you can partake in helping out at Mass, you get a deeper appreciation for the Mass. I sing in choir and I know it’s helped me to find a deeper respect for the Mass and a willingness to stay involved.
So if female altar servers are wrong, would not females who are Eucharistic Ministers also wrong? Or is there something different in that?

Because in a practical sense only so many bodies may serve each Mass. You cannot have an unlimited number and I think each one of those positions should be filled by a male who might just be discerning a vocation. Don’t have enough males to fill all the slots (a common excuse)? Then your altar server/vocations programs is not receiving enough attention.

When it comes to EMsHC, first I think the use of EMsHC should be severely limited per the Church’s existing instructions. Next I think any male over a certain age(16? 18?) who might just be discerning a vocation (be it to the priesthood or permanent diaconate) should be the first to serve as EMsHC right after any instituted acolytes who might be present.

Yes, females have a place in this world just as men do. Men are called to love their wives (and women in general) just as Jesus loved the Church. They are to treat women as they would want to be treated. I just don’t see how having female altar servers is women stepping into a role they should not have? If you were referring to the post who said they would like to see women priests or whatever then I could understand, but I don’t see how a female altar server is wrong.

See above.

 

[OhMalley]

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“98. The acolyte is instituted to serve at the altar and to assist the priest and deacon. In
particular, it is his responsibility to prepare the altar and the sacred vessels and, if it is necessary,
as an extraordinary minister, to distribute the Eucharist to the faithful.84
In the ministry of the altar, the acolyte has his own functions (cf. below, nos. 187-193), which he
must perform personally. …
100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar
and assist the priest and the deacon; they may carry the cross, the candles, the thurible, the
bread, the wine, and the water, and they may also be deputed to distribute Holy Communion as
extraordinary ministers.”

The ordinary ministers to distribute communion are ordained. If an acolyte or altar server does it they do so as extraordinary ministers.

In the same way by saying “In the absence of an instituted acolyte” the GIRM is saying that when other lay people doing these roles they are doing so as extraordinary ministers.

I honestly have to ask – why did you post what you did? It had nothing to do with my previous posting. Let’s look at the orginal comment:

…An acolyte is a member of a minor order. Acolytes are ministers instituted by the bishop. Altar servers are an “extraordinary” ministry. They serve at the altar in the absence of instituted acolytes…

We are not talking about distributing communion we are talking about serving at the altar. “PacoG” was trying to suggest a corrollary between Ordinary Ministers of the Eucahrist and EMsHC versus instituted acolytes and altar servers. As if altar servers are “extraordinary acolytes” and that’s simply not true.

When it comes to distributing communion, ordained males are the OMsHC who always take primacy over EMsHC. When it comes to serving at the altar instituted acolytes don’t always take precidence over altar servers nor are they “ordinary” when servers are “extraordinary.”

Instituted acolytes may well take priority over non-instituted EMsHC when it comes to distibuting communion but that’s an entirely different subject and it in no way makes the institued acolyte an OMHC.

 

[OhMalley]

…In the future we may well see women as priests in our churches.

Are you truly not aware that’s a dogmatic impossibility? If you truly are please read ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

 

[Sr_Sally]

As a former altar boy, I can tell you that serving at Mass - Tridentine and then Novus Ordum was one of the most thrilling things that I did a parochial school youth.

While it did not lead me to a serious vocation - although my best friend from High School did “join up”, it did lead to a lifelong strengthening of my faith, and later a degree in theology, and serving as a minister of the word - lector - for 25 years.

The path to ordination can, and should be, be encouraged, but only through prayer and discernment. I can assure you that there were plenty of reprobates from the altar boy group!

And, we had “dress issues” even then - one of the boys wore “beatle” style shoes under his cassock and caused an uproar, in the assembly, as well as the platoon of sisters seated in the front pews.

I agree that the real path to a vocation is prayer and discernment. I too have seen some boys who were perfectly happy to be altar servers but in no way called to be priests!

The dciocese that you refer to is Arlington, VA, I think where the bishop forbids girls from serving.

Until a few years back the Arlington diocese did forbid girls from serving at the altar. They are now allowed at the discretion of the pastor. Our parish continues to just allow boys to serve.

Girls have traditionally been the unoffical catechists of the home; what better way to ensure that their children, can cherish, and grow in our faith, than by serving on the altar.

This is very true. I do not know that serving will make any girl a better catechist when she’s married with a family, but truly the reverance and love of God should carry on into adulthood just as it does for boys.

I think that today’s boys realize that girls don’t have “cooties”!

An excluive male model on the altar can do more harm than good. Encouraging vocations is one thing, but seeing gender parity in the few liturgical roles for women, does not a zero sum game make.

Women have been part and parcel of church history, since the early house churches; let’s not also forget that women were the first to proclaim the Resurrection; it was only later that the man came running to catch up.

It is very true that God revealed himself first to a woman at the resurrection and that the Church has always held women in high esteem, from the Mother of God through all the amazing women Saints in time. I do not know that gender parity in liturgical roles is of any importance in girls and women realizing the Church’s love and esteem though.

In the future we may well see women as priests in our churches.

I do not see how this would ever happen. Christ’s direction and the apostolic reord are very clear that women are not of the ‘material’ required to be a priest. Again, the Church’s love and esteem for women is in no way diminished by this.

 

[BrokenFortress]

Okay, another question I thought of. I see people posting that being an altar server is an important step in helping young boys and men in their journey of faith and maybe ultimately to the priesthood, but wouldn’t it also be the same for young women who may be called to become nuns? Why is this serving at the altar only seen to benefit those boys who will become priests? Why not also the girls who will become nuns?

Forgive me if I’m truly naive or something, I only became Catholic 3 years ago so there’s much I don’t know.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Okay, another question I thought of. I see people posting that being an altar server is an important step in helping young boys and men in their journey of faith and maybe ultimately to the priesthood, but wouldn’t it also be the same for young women who may be called to become nuns? Why is this serving at the altar only seen to benefit those boys who will become priests? Why not also the girls who will become nuns?

Forgive me if I’m truly naive or something, I only became Catholic 3 years ago so there’s much I don’t know.

To me a big part of it has to do with the boys seeing this important aspect of the priesthood up close. They also have an opportunity to get to know the priests better and see some of the responsibilities of being a priest.

Girls who may have a vocation to sisterhood would ideally have a similar opportunity to get to know the sisters/nuns and see there work. This used to be the case when Catholic schools were staffed by sisters, when many smaller cities and towns still had Catholic hospitals, and there were more convents of cloistered nuns.

Certainly serving at the altar can give a girl a sense of reverance about the Mass and a chance to serve their parish, however, that is not the work that they will be doing as a sister.

We are fortunate in our parish to have a sister in the CCD office, and in our diocese we have 2 covents of cloistered nuns (different orders) and many other sisters helping in other parishes and even staffing several of our schools (not completely, but they are there). It is a great blessing for all the girls in our diocese and the vocations director runs a special program for girls/young women called Fiat. They even schedule “nun runs” when the girls get to meet the sisters and visit the cloistered convents.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I am aware of that…and I apologize for not making myself clear…the Church has removed that…it has also severely lightened its fast/abstinence requirements…along with other things…however, those practices were never abograted…they were just lifted as requirements…the faithful CAN STILL practice them if they so wish…so it becomes a matter of just doing the bare minimums…why would one want to do just the bare minimums? That breeds mediocrity…and that goes along with guys that wear shorts to mass…or blue jeans with t-shirt…Dress appropriately…I mean, you are in the presence of God. Would you eat at Ruth’s Chris steak house in denim shorts and an LSU t-shirt? I think not…Start showing some respect for the Real Presence!!! Therefore, while not required, it sure would be very nice to see men dressed appropriately and women dressed appropriately and wearing mantillas or some other type of head covering…and no tacky piercings, or hair styles, etc…it is a respect issue…but then again, you and the other Catholics like you…if you want to do the bare minimums, that is your perogative.

And you know what? The Catholic Church has removed the requirement of women covering their heads in church with the release of the latest version of Canon Law. I’ll follow the Church over your personal interpretation of Scripture anytime.

In the end you reject the Catholic Church’s official position (per Canon Law) for your own personal interpreation of Sacred Scripture. In all actuality it sounds like YOU “have started thinking YOU are bigger than The Church and YOU can decide what Catholicism is and should be…not the Church.”

You don’t speak the truth you speak your personal opinion – one that is at odds with the Catholic Church.