altar servers?

[ConcernedApathy]

ConcernedApathy;5366188:

???

If you want to make something unappealing to most boys make it something that includes/appeals to girls. The dynamics shift greatly when it goes from a “knights and pages of the altar” setting to an “altar server setting” – and not for the best.

I say again, then educate the boys…(and I realize I’m going a bit off topic because I’m not talking strictly about altar service, more about male and female attitudes in general.) that attitude of girls work and boys work and this whole He-Man Woman Haters Club (ancient Little Rascals reference, btw) is not what makes men manly.

 

[OhMalley]

OhMalley;5367165:

I say again, then educate the boys…(and I realize I’m going a bit off topic because I’m not talking strictly about altar service, more about male and female attitudes in general.) that attitude of girls work and boys work and this whole He-Man Woman Haters Club (ancient Little Rascals reference, btw) is not what makes men manly.

This is not about education. This is also not about your misandrist comments. There is a very special espirit ed corps that develops amongst males – it might very well develop amongst females too, I really don’t know. That espirit de corps is worth preserving.

You look at that espirit de corps as something necessarily bad and you are wrong to do so.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

There is only one “womanly occupation” and that’s giving birth.

You’re kidding, right? If not, that’s incredibly insulting to women. Like it or not, and despite what radical feminists have brainwashed much of society to believe, men and women ARE inherently different.

If a boy thinks that by working along side a girl, sharing a chore or job with a girl or doing anything in anyway unisex will make him spontaneously sprout a vagina then his parents need to correct that archaic belief. If they don’t correct it, they should be ashamed.

What a crude overreaction! Boys naturally go through a phase when they are developing their identity as boys, learning that they are different than girls, when it is absolutely NORMAL (and probably necessary for their development) for them to avoid association with girls. It has nothing to do with any “archaic belief.”

I say again, then educate the boys…(and I realize I’m going a bit off topic because I’m not talking strictly about altar service, more about male and female attitudes in general.) that attitude of girls work and boys work and this whole He-Man Woman Haters Club (ancient Little Rascals reference, btw) is not what makes men manly.

When it comes to matters of faith, there is indeed “girls’ work” and “boys’ work” because men and women have different gifts and different callings and purposes “wired” into them by their Creator. There is some overlap, of course, some roles that both men and women can fill. But to suggest that we’re all the same except for our reproductive organs is a gross oversimplification and an untruth.

 

[BrokenFortress]

I just think that serving at the altar is not the place for one to be thinking about the sex of whom you’re serving with. You’re both praising God by being present at the altar and are using your talents for the praise of the Lord.

I do agree with the point that men and women are different. And yes, obviously more so than just their anatomical differences. But, why is the serving at the altar something for men and boys to bond at?

Obviously the Church allows for girls and young women to be altar servers, so why are so many against it? I do not think they would allow something that would hurt the Church. That would be backwards.

 

[OhMalley]

You’re kidding, right? If not, that’s incredibly insulting to women. Like it or not, and despite what radical feminists have brainwashed much of society to believe, men and women ARE inherently different.

What a crude overreaction! Boys naturally go through a phase when they are developing their identity as boys, learning that they are different than girls, when it is absolutely NORMAL (and probably necessary for their development) for them to avoid association with girls. It has nothing to do with any “archaic belief.”

When it comes to matters of faith, there is indeed “girls’ work” and “boys’ work” because men and women have different gifts and different callings and purposes “wired” into them by their Creator. There is some overlap, of course, some roles that both men and women can fill. But to suggest that we’re all the same except for our reproductive organs is a gross oversimplification and an untruth.

How non PC of you! Your comments do not conform to the mandates of current popular culture!

 

[OhMalley]

I just think that serving at the altar is not the place for one to be thinking about the sex of whom you’re serving with. You’re both praising God by being present at the altar and are using your talents for the praise of the Lord.

You’re missing the point entirely.

I do agree with the point that men and women are different. And yes, obviously more so than just their anatomical differences. But, why is the serving at the altar something for men and boys to bond at?

Because the priest stands in the Person of Christ at the Altar of Sacrifice. That’s something a male altar server can possibly aspire to. It’s also something that no woman will ever realize.

Obviously the Church allows for girls and young women to be altar servers, so why are so many against it? I do not think they would allow something that would hurt the Church. That would be backwards.

While the Church did not reverse itself in Redemptionis Sacramentum it clearly gave primacy to males as altar servers:

[RS 47.] **It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths ** (in other words male teens), customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes. Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.

Almost an afterthought it would seem. I seriously think one day only males will once again be allowed to serve at the altar. It’s simply too important of discerning tool for males who might be fostering a vocation.

 

[Alphonse]

At nearly sixty years of age, I can say this: “never say never” - even with the Catholic Church . . .our society is changing rapidly. Why, my wife and I never thought that we would be lving next door to a gay couple, and their adopted daughter. They are great guys, keep up the property, are quiet and resepctful, and are great bridge partners too. and, in another few months they will probably get married - now think about that: would you have ever thought that two men would get married. Things change, my friend, and there’s not too much that you and I can do about it.

QUOTE=michaeldaniels;5365506]Electing a minority to office in a democratic nation and changing something that has been emphatically stated can never happen and is not even a remote possibility of happening within The Catholic Church (not a democracy) are not even close to the same thing…The Church is not a democracy…and to quote our wonderful Pontiff Benedict XVI “Truth is not determined by a majority vote”

 

[Alphonse]

If the thought of a** woman presiding at Mass **gets you this worked up, you must have done a real 360 when Obama was elected.

Seriously,have you ever asked yourself what would be so truly BAD if a woman was ordained?

I guess you truly don’t get it and that’s a shame. Your analogy of a black president is ridiculous and I am sorry you don’t understand that. A better analogy would be for a man to become pregnant. It’s just going to happen – it’s impossible and that’s just not something that’s going to change.

 

[michaeldaniels]

What you fail to realize is that TRUTH…does not bend to the will of the people…society can not influence it…time can not change it. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I don’t care if they make gay marriage the only legal type of marriage in this country…IT IS STILL AN ABOMINATION…and it is wrong in the eyes of The Church and God…like I said, “truth can not be determined by a majority vote”. I am not talking about the individuals…I will not pass judgement, nor do I know them will enough to speak about them…but what I can do is speak out against their lifestyle. It is an abomination…and you are giving aid to scandal by joining them for “activities”…scandal to yourself, your spouse, your children, and everyone that knows you. I will be praying that you have the courage to stand up to these moral evils even though society deems it acceptable…now is a time when we need men of principle and honor…not conformity and acceptance.

At nearly sixty years of age, I can say this: “never say never” - even with the Catholic Church . . .our society is changing rapidly. Why, my wife and I never thought that we would be lving next door to a gay couple, and their adopted daughter. They are great guys, keep up the property, are quiet and resepctful, and are great bridge partners too. and, in another few months they will probably get married - now think about that: would you have ever thought that two men would get married. Things change, my friend, and there’s not too much that you and I can do about it.

QUOTE=michaeldaniels;5365506]Electing a minority to office in a democratic nation and changing something that has been emphatically stated can never happen and is not even a remote possibility of happening within The Catholic Church (not a democracy) are not even close to the same thing…The Church is not a democracy…and to quote our wonderful Pontiff Benedict XVI “Truth is not determined by a majority vote”

 

[michaeldaniels]

I will give you that…electing Obama was the worst decision the voters have ever made in this country, and it has nothing to do with his race…secondly, WOMEN WILL NEVER BE priest in The Catholic Church…no matter how you spin it, will it, wish it, desire it…hope for it or pray for it…if you can’t accept the Church’s teachings, then possibly it is time to find a new Church…and I say that with the utmost charity and sincerity…stop trying to advocate changing The Church to fit your beliefs…Finally, when it comes to your last question…it does no good for me to entertain myself with childish “what if” scenarios.

If the thought of a** woman presiding at Mass **gets you this worked up, you must have done a real 360 when Obama was elected.

Seriously,have you ever asked yourself what would be so truly BAD if a woman was ordained?

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Seriously,have you ever asked yourself what would be so truly BAD if a woman was ordained?

What would be so truly BAD is that it would be a simulation of a sacrament (i.e., the sacrament would not really occur). People would go to what they thought was a Mass and no Mass would be happening at all. People would think they were receiving the Body and Blood of Christ, and in fact it would only be ordinary bread. People would go to confession and there would be no real absolution of their sins, because the “priest” wouldn’t really be a priest at all.

It’s not the Church’s decision. It’s the way Christ instituted the sacrament. The Church has no authority or power to change the all-male priesthood. “Ordaining” a woman would amount to no more spiritually than “ordaining” a chimpanzee. (No, I’m not saying a woman is anything like a chimpanzee; just that they are both invalid matter for Holy Orders.)