Alter girls - an abuse?

[Spiller]

It is an abuse in the TLM- an English Bishop recently told the Latin Mass Society that he would only allow the TLM in his cathedral if they used at least one female altar server. The LMS declined and thus the months spent in anticipation for that scheduled Solemn High Mass were in vain- I understand many people traveled hours to get there only to hear what happened. Why the Bishop would insist on that is beyond me

In reality it’s probably not. This is a canon law matter, not a Roman Missal matter…

I would saw there is some very wrong with people who say that females can never serve at the EF, no matter what the need or the qualifications.

 

[Spiller]

Its bigotry to follow Church teaching that only women can validly be ordained in any capacity? Spare your insults, please.

Deaconesses were never ordained.

 

[scylla]

Maybe a better response to all this is to ask a this question?

Do you want more Priests?

Will you do everything it takes to promote the Priesthood of Christ by supporting vocations to the Priesthood.

Since altar boys lead to vocations to the Priesthood they should be supported and never diminished. Even though only a small percentage of altar boys will become Priests any cut to the number of altar boys will directly affect vocations to the Priesthood.

Do you want more Priests? How can we help there be more Holy Priests?

God Bless
Scylla

 

[laudamus_te]

To the OP, I would listen to your inner voice which is uncomfortable with this. Understandably, you are proud of your daughter. But it is your duty to guide her in the right direction and unfortunately female altar serving helps instill the feminist mindset in young girls’ minds. I know this will rankle many of the more liberal Catholics here, but I’ve seen it happen.

My daughter was also an altar server for some time in grade school. If I had not been such a lukewarm, clueless Catholic at the time, I would not have allowed it. What has been stated here about boys being discouraged from serving by the allowance of girls is spot-on true. We need priestly vocations! And we’re not going to get them from girl altar servers. Sadly, most people don’t think that alternate activities for girls are good enough, because they’re not “equal” to what the boys get to do by serving. Here’s the effects of feminism, which is so opposed to the Catholic Faith.

 

[Lepanto]

What if being an altar girl actually helps a girl to be more connected with the Church and helps encourage her to become a nun?

No thanks. The world doesn’t need any more feminist nuns who are bitter because they can’t be priests.

Or to help bring back deaconesses?

Need I say more?

 

[laudamus_te]

I would saw there is some very wrong with people who say that females can never serve at the EF, no matter what the need or the qualifications.

I thought you were so against ever criticizing a pope? See Juan Carlos’ post quoting Pope Benedict XIV above.

Spiller:

Deaconesses were never ordained.

Do you deny that there are many women in the Church who are hopeful of and in fact pushing for ordination of women? Can you be so blind that you cannot see that to make such an idea thinkable by the average Catholic, they must be conditioned to see the “need” for women’s “active participation” in the liturgy? How better to start than with altar girls. Then it’s just a skip and a jump to women lectors and EEMs, then another skip to deaconesses and finally, voila! women priests.

The Future of the Church?
Please notice in particular the photo of the woman in priestly garb reading the Gospel. Think it can’t happen? Time to wake up, people.

 

[ethelzguy]

Can you be so blind that you cannot see that to make such an idea thinkable by the average Catholic, they must be conditioned to see the “need” for women’s “active participation” in the liturgy? How better to start than with altar girls. Then it’s just a skip and a jump to women lectors and EEMs, then another skip to deaconesses and finally, voila! women priests…

A conspiracy theory that would make Oliver Stone proud.

 

[laudamus_te]

A conspiracy theory that would make Oliver Stone proud.

For some, it’s easier to roll eyes and make a joke than to open them and see what’s happening.

 

[CreatioNova]

Thank you all for your responses and honest replies.

They have helped me see that what I’m struggling with here is tradition itself.

If the church allows girl servers, who’s to say my daughter is not perceiving a guideance from the Holy Spirit to get involved with the church in this way?

I found some of the replies difficult - the idea that my daughter could be at the van guard of some quasi feminist movement to undermine vocations and take over the priesthood is frankly as hillarious as it is ridiculous.

I’ve had pause for thought - and I thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut - but I see now what I need to be doing is supporting my daughter every step of the way - not discouraging her from getting involved in the church in the way she has discerned to be most appropriate for her.

thanks for your thoughts and (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[laudamus_te]

Thank you all for your responses and honest replies.

They have helped me see that what I’m struggling with here is tradition itself.

If the church allows girl servers, who’s to say my daughter is not perceiving a guideance from the Holy Spirit to get involved with the church in this way?

I found some of the replies difficult - the idea that my daughter could be at the van guard of some quasi feminist movement to undermine vocations and take over the priesthood is frankly as hillarious as it is ridiculous.

I’ve had pause for thought - and I thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut - but I see now what I need to be doing is supporting my daughter every step of the way - not discouraging her from getting involved in the church in the way she has discerned to be most appropriate for her.

thanks for your thoughts and (name removed by moderator)ut.

You’re welcome. However, I’m sorry if you feel that there is no basis for the argument that girl altar servers undermine vocations to the priesthood. Many parishes are coming to this realization, and hence are not permitting girls to serve. I wish your daughter well, and I’m sure you understand that nothing posted here was any sort of condemnation of her personally.

 

[CreatioNova]

…I’m sure you understand that nothing posted here was any sort of condemnation of her personally.

Absolutely - which is why I’m grateful to you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut - given with kindness and thoughtfullness.

 

[Lepanto]

I don’t mean this as a personal attack on anybody, but a father or mother of a daughter in this situation will have difficulty looking at the situation objectively.

It’s only natural for a parent to want what they perceive as best for their child.

If one looks at the situation objectively, however, the Church’s time- honored tradition (and stated preference) for altar boys makes the most sense.

And again, this is not a slight against girls. There are plenty of other things that girls could be doing instead of serving in what once was a nursery for priestly vocations.

 

[consumedconvert]

Thank you all for your responses and honest replies.

They have helped me see that what I’m struggling with here is tradition itself.

If the church allows girl servers, who’s to say my daughter is not perceiving a guideance from the Holy Spirit to get involved with the church in this way?

I found some of the replies difficult - the idea that my daughter could be at the van guard of some quasi feminist movement to undermine vocations and take over the priesthood is frankly as hillarious as it is ridiculous.

I’ve had pause for thought - and I thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut - but I see now what I need to be doing is supporting my daughter every step of the way - not discouraging her from getting involved in the church in the way she has discerned to be most appropriate for her.

thanks for your thoughts and (name removed by moderator)ut.

BTW, I LOVE the Rule too.

 

[CreatioNova]

There are plenty of other things that girls could be doing instead of serving in what once was a nursery for priestly vocations.

Part of my issue is I simply do not believe or accept that my daughter serving at Mass is actively denying the priesthood a potential vocation.

In fact I’m much more inclined to believe that her own prayers and faith have led her by her own valition to seek this out for herself. As I said earlier, who am I to say that it may not be the Holy Spirit working in her that has led her to this point?

The church she is training at has relatively few servers at all, most of them being adult males as there are so very few young boys interested.

I’d be interested to know if there are any accurate figures to show how many male alter servers go on to be priests nowadays. I would guess at very few. And I doubt this has anything to do with the fact there are girls serving at the alter.

 

[ethelzguy]

Part of my issue is I simply do not believe or accept that my daughter serving at Mass is actively denying the priesthood a potential vocation.

In fact I’m much more inclined to believe that her own prayers and faith have led her by her own valition to seek this out for herself. As I said earlier, who am I to say that it may not be the Holy Spirit working in her that has led her to this point?

.

Good for you, listen to your Church, not some malcontents within.

 

[flyersfan1088]

I had never really thought much about this issue until now. After reading this thread, my 6 year old daughter will not be serving when she is old enough. I’ve noticed lately that most Sundays 2 of the 3, if not all 3 servers are girls. This is at a parish with over 1400 families, so lack of candidates is not the problem. As far as whether or not it’s hurting vocations, the comments from the former server must carry weight.

 

[kleary]

This is the thing - I was there when it happened.

They started letting girls do the “candle bearing” thing in my Diocese. Then a short time afterwards the “debate” began about “Altar Girls”. The pressure was coming from those in support of “female priests”.

I watched EWTN night after night…Mother Angelica Live. All the complaints coming in about these new “candle bearers” who carried the lit candles alongside the processional cross and held them at the pulpit during the reading of the Gospel.

In 1980 the Pope then issued a decree that declared that women are NOT allowed to serve Holy Mass (Inaestimabile Donum).

Then shortly afterwards they were allowed. Go figure…I still have that issue of “This Rock” magazine when it all happened.

So No … in the Ordinary Form — they are not an abuse – just an abuse that has become allowed thorugh the pressure of feminists who desire women priests – they WANT TO DESENSITIZE YOU - so that you become accustomed to seeing women in the Sanctuary - as contrasted with the Extraordinary Form that forbids women in the Sanctuary.

We can say the same about “Ccommunion in the hand” - it started similarly as an abuse - and is now allowed under indult…but forbidden in the Extraordinary Form.

Ken

 

[laudamus_te]

Good for you, listen to your Church, not some malcontents within.

How about this malcontent?

Father Z is so highly respected on this forum, after all:
"Remember that canon 230 of the 1983 CIC has been so interpreted that females may substitute for installed acolytes. It does not give females a right. As a matter of fact, the Holy See said that priests cannot be forced to have female servers. It clearly states there ought to be a preference for male servers, especially the service of boys.

Service of females of any age at the altar remains an exception to the rule of male only service."

 

[laudamus_te]

This is the thing - I was there when it happened.

They started letting girls do the “candle bearing” thing in my Diocese. Then a short time afterwards the “debate” began about “Altar Girls”. The pressure was coming from those in support of “female priests”.

I watched EWTN night after night…Mother Angelica Live. All the complaints coming in about these new “candle bearers” who carried the lit candles alongside the processional cross and held them at the pulpit during the reading of the Gospel.

In 1980 the Pope then issued a decree that declared that women are NOT allowed to serve Holy Mass (Inaestimabile Donum).

Then shortly afterwards they were allowed. Go figure…I still have that issue of “This Rock” magazine when it all happened.

So No … in the Ordinary Form — they are not an abuse – just an abuse that has become allowed thorugh the pressure of feminists who desire women priests – they WANT TO DESENSITIZE YOU - so that you become accustomed to seeing women in the Sanctuary - as contrasted with the Extraordinary Form that forbids women in the Sanctuary.

We can say the same about “Ccommunion in the hand” - it started similarly as an abuse - and is now allowed under indult…but forbidden in the Extraordinary Form.

Ken

Careful, Ken, you’re sounding like a conspiracy theorist!
Honestly, if people just thought about it for a few moments, they’d realize that this desentization tactic is a reality. You can boil a frog if the water is heated slowly.

 

[Spiller]

I thought you were so against ever criticizing a pope? See Juan Carlos’ post quoting Pope Benedict XIV above.

Canon Law says females can serve Mass if there is not an objection from the local ordinary or the celebrant. That’s good enough for me. It would be edifying to know for certain if they extends to the EF as well.

Do you deny that there are many women in the Church who are hopeful of and in fact pushing for ordination of women? Can you be so blind that you cannot see that to make such an idea thinkable by the average Catholic, they must be conditioned to see the “need” for women’s “active participation” in the liturgy? How better to start than with altar girls. Then it’s just a skip and a jump to women lectors and EEMs, then another skip to deaconesses and finally, voila! women priests.

The Future of the Church?
Please notice in particular the photo of the woman in priestly garb reading the Gospel. Think it can’t happen? Time to wake up, people.

You are displaying some very bigoted views. Serving at the altar is not going to allow women to become priests. That matter is settled for eternity.