Alter Girls

[joanofarc2008]

Sorry I misread your post, and I’ve edited mine.

I probably was not as clear as I could have been either.

 

[Melissa]

Female altar servers are permitted if the bishop of the diocese allows it.
If the bishop allows it, the pastor of a particular parish may still disallow it.
If the pastor of a particular parish allows it, the parent of a girl may still disallow it for that particular girl.
My three sons serve, my daughter does not. My parish permits girls to be altar servers, I don’t.
My previous parish, the bishop allowed it but the pastor did not. That parish also has a current seminarian who was an altarboy when he was growing up.

The pastor in my new parish (I moved 900 miles) only mentioned it once, and has said that he would never push against my decision with respect to my daughter.

 

[Gethsemane]

Altar servers can be female.
The pope has had a female altar server at his mass.
Female altar servers have waiting a long, long time to do this. I do hope you won’t suggest to your church higher-up that this is an “unfortunate” set-up in the church.

Well, from what I’ve learned in this thread thus far, altar boys are the normative and altar girls are the exception. This is much in the same where recieving the Eucharist standing and in the hand is the exception, whilst kneeling and on the tongue is the normative.

As a woman, this is not a men vs. women issue. Young ladies should be a part of the community and it would do good to remember that they are girls and thus they have certain needs and requirements to foster within them an authentically Catholic femininity. This is the same that should be considered for the boys to instil in them a genuine Catholic masculinity.

I just think it would be better to look to the various women religious orders to inspire our young girls rather than for me personally, involvement in something that is unique to the priest.

No, I won’t say it’s “unfortunate” but, I will see about getting involved in the youth ministry to see what can be done to encourage the boys so that there is no need for the girls.

 

[triumphguy]

Well, from what I’ve learned in this thread thus far, altar boys are the normative and altar girls are the exception. This is much in the same where recieving the Eucharist standing and in the hand is the exception, whilst kneeling and on the tongue is the normative.

As a woman, this is not a men vs. women issue. Young ladies should be a part of the community and it would do good to remember that they are girls and thus they have certain needs and requirements to foster within them an authentically Catholic femininity. This is the same that should be considered for the boys to instil in them a genuine Catholic masculinity.

I just think it would be better to look to the various women religious orders to inspire our young girls rather than for me personally, involvement in something that is unique to the priest.

No, I won’t say it’s “unfortunate” but, I will see about getting involved in the youth ministry to see what can be done to encourage the boys so that there is no need for the girls.

Yes it is a good idea to get young women in front of devout and enthusiastic nuns and sisters.

And you are also right that we need to discover authentic Catholic masculinity.

 

[Angelsflight]

To me, it honestly sounds like something that is best left alone.

 

[grasscutter]

Here is the issue in a nut shell - the role of altar server - the correct term - is a role that is used in fostering vocation. Due to this some feel that it is only right that boys should serve in this role. However, there are some that also see that being close to the Eucharist and the celebration of the Mass can foster vocation in religious life for girls as well. I personally believe in our role of being obedient that it is best left to up to the decision of those who run our dioceses and our parishes.

 

[MidnightSun12]

I’m sure if more boys became altar servers there would be more altar boys.

I think the reason we don’t have altar boys is that boys (at that age) simply don’t want to be altar boys. Teenaged girls are just more organized, more enthusiastic about participating in a large social gathering and just are better able to manage that kind of responsibility (aka they’re basically perfect for the role of being an altar server).

Boys, on the other hand, are not generally going to seek that kind of resonsibility unless they are forced to do it. I mean, just think about how enthusiastic women are about participating in weddings (which is a type of mass) versus the corresponding male interest…

That’s not to say that girls shouldn’t be altar servers at all, but I do think there is a greater need for men to be in that type of role combined with a significantly lower young-male interest level in taking on the responsibility. As a result, I believe there definitely should be a prevailing attitude of getting males into these roles first.

 

[PacoG]

I was under the impression that there have been female altar servers for a pretty long time at convents, abbeys and monasteries.

 

[FLGreg]

Here is the issue in a nut shell - the role of altar server - the correct term - is a role that is used in fostering vocation. Due to this some feel that it is only right that boys should serve in this role. However, there are some that also see that being close to the Eucharist and the celebration of the Mass can foster vocation in religious life for girls as well. I personally believe in our role of being obedient that it is best left to up to the decision of those who run our dioceses and our parishes.

Agreed. It is true that Pope Benedict XVI has used female altar servers in Papal masses in London (2010), Berlin and Freiburg (2011). Only one diocese in America, the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska does not permit female altar servers.

The reason for allowing young men to serve in the Holy Mass is to give them a taste of the religious life - at least it used to be the case.

In my parish there are no boys of the age that, tradtionally, have been alter servers. The families of children aged 10-15 only have daugthers and they have “stepped up to the plate” and have done a very good job. It is the same thing as a parish that do not have men that are willing to be Lectors and have to rely on women to proclaim the Liturgy of the Word.

 

[simmie]

Hi
I served on the altar of my Parish for 10 years, and for 6 of those years, I was the Head Altar Server for the Mass I attended. I started after my First Communion in October when i was 8. Many servers in our Parish start between 8 and 10 years old. In addition to me, there were many female altar servers, in fact, the Server in charge when I started was female and having stepped down for over 5 years one of the head servers is again female, with the other being a male server who has been serving for over 15 years.

The bishop and diocese allows this and from my experience, seeing both male and female servers on the altar is a norm - I am based in the UK. However, for a few years the Bishop preferred a male head server when serving at Confirmation Mass celebrated by him. This changed at the last confirmation mass where my friend and I both shared the responsibility.

MidnightSun has a point, our priest used to give extra responsibilities to male servers at main masses in an attempt to regain their interest in serving. However, he has often said he finds female altar servers to be the most organised. I hope that, when the next set of servers move on we will have both males and females keen to take their place on the altar.

 

[1ke]

Well, from what I’ve learned in this thread thus far, altar boys are the normative and altar girls are the exception.

This is not accurate. You keep trying to frame girls as altar servers as the exception, and not “preferred”, etc. This simply isn’t the case. Altar server, unlike acolyte, is a lay role. And therefore any lay person can fill it.

This is much in the same where recieving the Eucharist standing and in the hand is the exception, whilst kneeling and on the tongue is the normative.

Again, I would suggest you are mistaken.

Standing is the norm in the US, and I believe also in Canada and most other places, writtten right into the rubrics. I’ve been to many masses, in many countries, and standing has been the norm wherever I’ve gone.

Communion on tongue versus hand are equal. It is the communicant’s choice.

 

[Gethsemane]

This is not accurate. You keep trying to frame girls as altar servers as the exception, and not “preferred”, etc. This simply isn’t the case. Altar server, unlike acolyte, is a lay role. And therefore any lay person can fill it.

Again, I would suggest you are mistaken.

Standing is the norm in the US, and I believe also in Canada and most other places, writtten right into the rubrics. I’ve been to many masses, in many countries, and standing has been the norm wherever I’ve gone.

Communion on tongue versus hand are equal. It is the communicant’s choice.

First, I was taking into account also the many links that I have been given. I’m not trying to “frame” simply stating what I have found. You are free to disagree, of course.

With regards to receiving the Eucharist, however, you are wrong. Canon Law states that kneeling and on the tongue is the normative. Sadly in America/Canada Vatican 2 was misunderstood and was taken to mean in spirit one could violate Canon Law, but this is not so. No decree from any Bishop overrules Canon Law. There have even been Vatican officials that have said as much these few years.

 

[Stylites]

First, I was taking into account also the many links that I have been given. I’m not trying to “frame” simply stating what I have found. You are free to disagree, of course.

With regards to receiving the Eucharist, however, you are wrong. Canon Law states that kneeling and on the tongue is the normative. Sadly in America/Canada Vatican 2 was misunderstood and was taken to mean in spirit one could violate Canon Law, but this is not so. No decree from any Bishop overrules Canon Law. There have even been Vatican officials that have said as much these few years.

Gee, you’re not even Catholic yet, and things are apparently “sad” and “misunderstood” and “unfortunate” and “wrong” in the Church? Come in with a child’s faith and don’t come looking for contention.

 

[TimothyH]

Gee, you’re not even Catholic yet, and things are apparently “sad” and “misunderstood” and “unfortunate” and “wrong” in the Church? Come in with a child’s faith and don’t come looking for contention.

An attitude that the Church is wrong and that we are going to save the Church from itself is a clear indication that we have our priorities backwards.

-Tim-

 

[Cat]

Well, from what I’ve learned in this thread thus far, altar boys are the normative and altar girls are the exception. This is much in the same where recieving the Eucharist standing and in the hand is the exception, whilst kneeling and on the tongue is the normative.

As a woman, this is not a men vs. women issue. Young ladies should be a part of the community and it would do good to remember that they are girls and thus they have certain needs and requirements to foster within them an authentically Catholic femininity. This is the same that should be considered for the boys to instil in them a genuine Catholic masculinity.

I just think it would be better to look to the various women religious orders to inspire our young girls rather than for me personally, involvement in something that is unique to the priest.

No, I won’t say it’s “unfortunate” but, I will see about getting involved in the youth ministry to see what can be done to encourage the boys so that there is no need for the girls.

That would be great, except that many parish churches and schools don’t have any women in religious orders (nuns, sisters).

So if a parent wants to have their daughters “look to the various women religious orders” for inspiration, they have to take them on field trips to convents and monasteries. This is just an “occasional” exposure, not the constant exposure that would be ideal for “inspiration.”

I think that girls should be encouraged by their parents to say “Yes” to opportunities to serve Christ and His Church wherever those opportunities to serve exist. At this time in history, the leadership of the Church has opened up the opportunity for females to serve at the altar, as long as the territorial authority grants permission.

I think that parents need to ponder very carefully whether or not they should turn down this service opportunity that the Holy Mother Church has given to their daughters. I would ask, “If my daughter does NOT serve at the altar, what other service is she involved with for our parish, and if she is not involved with service to the parish, how is she learning to serve Christ and His Church, and how is this learning experience helping her to seriously consider a vocation to a religious life?”

 

[Gethsemane]

Gee, you’re not even Catholic yet, and things are apparently “sad” and “misunderstood” and “unfortunate” and “wrong” in the Church? Come in with a child’s faith and don’t come looking for contention.

The Church teaches faith and reason together. I have enormous faith in the Church, why else would I still be coming in given what I know? This knowledge that the people, not the Church, but the people are flawed causes me to love them even more. And it is because I’m in love with the Church, that I seek to do my part as a member of this Body, to aid the Bride of Christ to be obedient. She is the Bride of Christ, we should care for and honour her as such.

If your sister was getting married and her dress got caught and torn unaware without her knowledge, would you forever hold your peace or would you tell her and help her if she asked?

 

[TimothyH]

The Church teaches faith and reason together. I have enormous faith in the Church, why else would I still be coming in given what I know? This knowledge that the people, not the Church, but the people are flawed causes me to love them even more. And it is because I’m in love with the Church, that I seek to do my part as a member of this Body, to aid the Bride of Christ to be obedient. She is the Bride of Christ, we should care for and honour her as such.

If your sister was getting married and her dress got caught and torn unaware without her knowledge, would you forever hold your peace or would you tell her and help her if she asked?

The Church is here to save you, not the other way around.

-Tim-

 

[Gethsemane]

That would be great, except that many parish churches and schools don’t have any women in religious orders (nuns, sisters).

So if a parent wants to have their daughters “look to the various women religious orders” for inspiration, they have to take them on field trips to convents and monasteries. This is just an “occasional” exposure, not the constant exposure that would be ideal for “inspiration.”

I think that girls should be encouraged by their parents to say “Yes” to opportunities to serve Christ and His Church wherever those opportunities to serve exist. At this time in history, the leadership of the Church has opened up the opportunity for females to serve at the altar, as long as the territorial authority grants permission.

I think that parents need to ponder very carefully whether or not they should turn down this service opportunity that the Holy Mother Church has given to their daughters. I would ask, “If my daughter does NOT serve at the altar, what other service is she involved with for our parish, and if she is not involved with service to the parish, how is she learning to serve Christ and His Church, and how is this learning experience helping her to seriously consider a vocation to a religious life?”

Well, the parish in question is located in a major metropolitan area, and has several ministries. The parish itself has Secular Franciscans, and Opus Dei also has a ministry at another parish, I believe. But what I meant when I said “look” is not necessarily a field trip, but rather the study of how they live their lives and take it and have a girls ministry perhaps, which encourages young girls in living out various walks. Perhaps for fun one could try out the Rule which Mother Teresa wrote for the Missionary Sisters of Charity?

 

[Gethsemane]

The Church is here to save you, not the other way around.

-Tim-

It is Christ alone who saves. The Church is just one of the ways he does so. Again, this does not mean we ignore charity and allow parishes to do whatever they please without question. It’s just that attitude that allows for liturgical abuses such as dancing and contemporary music.

We are also called to assist even our Catholic brothers in their salvation. We’re even called to care for our priests which are often abandoned.

Remember, we’re the Church Militant, not the “Church of Nice.”

 

[Brendan]

Ultimately, I believe it is up to the priest presiding who he will allow to serve. The Bishop could set a “norm” for the diocese that must followed, but Pastor’s have some autonomy in how things are done in their parish, and I am pretty sure this falls into that realm.

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!

Sort of.

The Bishop may choose to give his permission. Without that permission, no girls may serve anywhere in the diocese.

If the local bishop has given his permission, the pastor may choose to allow girls to serve. per the Vatican, the Bishop cannot mandate that pastors allow girls to serve. All the bishop may do is give permission

If the pastor has given his permission, he, in turn, cannot obligate an associate pastor to allow girls to serve at Masses he celebrates

So girls may serve if (and only if) the Bishop has chosen to allow altar girls in his diocese, the pastor has chosen to allow altar girls in his parish, and the celebrating priest has decided to all altar girls at his Mass.

Here are some of the relevant instructions from the Vatican

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwcomm.htm

and

(on the question on if a bishop can force a priest or pastor to use altar girls)

adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html