Am i asking too much?

[chevalier]

WHY can’t the OP just turn the other cheek? The FIL is a jerk - I think we all agree on that, but why can’t he just let it go? Be the bigger, better man? He is asking for a reasonable response (an apology) out of a very unreasonable man. It isn’t going to happen… can’t he just let it go? They live HOURS away… it’s not like he has to hang with the guy every weekend. Forgive - forget and try to keep my distance from the guy on the next visit… out of love for my spouse, that’s what I would do.

Agreed. But the treatment the OP got greatly offended his sense of justice and fairness and truly, no one should be subject to anything like that. It would be wrong to pretend that that kind of behaviour is fine. So yes, Aggie, let it go. Get over the apology. Forget pride, forget your hurt dignity. Hug your wife. Try to settle it peacefully with the mother in law. Explain you want the best for her daughter, but you aren’t going have her drunken husband berate you for 10 minutes in the presence of your family. Tell her you are sorry if your behaviour hurt her, but one cannot pretend that the father-in-law’s behaviour is fine. And apologise to your wife properly if you get even a shade of idea that you might have even accidentally hurt her, which includes hurting her feelings. And yeah, keep it clear that you aren’t apologising for not accepting the father-in-law’s behaviour.

As for her arguing with you in public, ask her not do that, but reassure her that she can talk to you about her problems and that you will listen. She shouldn’t go to her parents with her marital problems, but we make it so that she has nowhere to go. You need to be the person to whom she has when she has a problem with you. In short, she must be able to come to you with a problem she has with you. And she must know that you will listen to her and you will not dismiss her. Make her feel loved, respected, valued and listened to and make it clear her opinion counts. Women need that.

Now I’m running before someone shoots me for making five posts in a row. Apologies for not being a bit more concise. Or a bit friendlier at times.

 

[kage_ar]

"IV. Duties Towards Parents
Although it is advisable that young married couples do not live with the parents of the husband or the wife, they nevertheless owe them reverence and love. This obligation never ceases.

1. Father-in-law and mother-in-law should be treated with the same respect and love as one’s own father and mother.
2. Gratitude requires that married children bring cheer to their parents by doing them desirable favors, giving them agreeable surprises and remembering them with presents on suitable occasions.
3. It is becoming that they consult their parents on important matters. The parents are their best friends and counselors. As a rule the elders have more experience and a more mature judgment.
4. Children must patiently bear the faults and shortcomings of their parents, especially the bodily and mental infirmities of old age, and give them support if necessary. Very likely they will be treated by their own children as they have treated their parents.

**Should parents attempt to sow discord, mistrust, and aversion between husband and wife, such things happen sometimes, they are not to be listened to. No one, not even father and mother, dare come between the two. “A man shall leave father and mother,” we read in the Book of Genesis, “and cleave to his wife.” (2, 24) **

Cite the source for this.

It is not in the Catechism, or in any of the Church Doctrine or Dogma I have researched.

It appears to be the opinion of a person, not binding on the Faithful.

 

[whatevergirl]

Whatevergirl, I don’t think the OP should apologise to the father-in-law, who behaved horribly. Contrary, the father-in-law should apologise, except it won’t mean much if he won’t see what was wrong.

There might, however, be something to apologise for to the wife or the mother-in-law. In the Opening Poster’s shoes, I would probably behave much the same way, as would most of us, I suppose, but this doesn’t mean the wife got all the best treatment all along the way.

By no means do I say one needs to sweep it under the carpet - if you read my earlier posts, I said the behaviour wasn’t acceptable and it was preferable to avoid coming into contact with the father-in-law.

Of course! But I’m not saying the OP should apologise. I believe one should never apologise if one doesn’t sincerely take blame.

I don’t blame him either and I would also remove myself from a relative acting like that. I don’t want to share details from my past, but believe me when I say I’ve had experience with something more than verbal threats and without an option to distance myself. I know how bad such things feel. I don’t want to sympathise with the father-in-law here, but some things are not right here. It’s not fair to keep pouring insults and negate any and all protective instinct he might have felt as if he were an animal, not a man and a father - even if in a very lapsed state. It’s not fair in this situation to jump to conclusions about the whole event and conclude that the wife has been doing everything wrong and committing some great transgressions, while the husband has been blameless. Firstly, we have too little facts here, secondly, there are clues that point that indeed, there’s probably something to apologise for to the wife.

Oops, I didn’t read your prior posts. I will agree, that with so many threads we read about…there’s only one side being presented. But, let’s say, everything is the way it was in this situation as the OP states…that is all we can reply to.

Thanks for explaining–I apologize to YOU for not reading beyond your last post on this. I have a terrible habit of doing that.

 

[Ruthie]

20-20 hindsight tells me that what you should have done is cram the stupid stroller into the car, carefully drive to the nearest Goodwill or St Vincent De Paul store, and get rid of it. …Oh, well!

I’m another sober alcoholic. I think, that while you are certainly owed an apology, you should not expect one. If he’s as far gone as it sounds, he probably has no memory of the fight. At all. It’s called a “blackout,” and it means the actions never make it into “storage.”

I do not think you owe an apology to your MIL, except possibly for fighting with your wife in front of her.

I do think you owe an apology to your wife. However much she may be at fault, it doesn’t justify bad behavior on your part. You were rude to her.

In your other thread, I mentioned my depression. If I’d known about this situation, I would have added that it takes very little stress to absolutely knock me out. Even good stress, like happy family celebrations, will wipe me out for two or three days. I wouldn’t describe visiting a dysfunctional family with an active alcoholic father as “happy,” and ending it with a couple of fights just makes it more stressful.

So concentrate on taking the stress off your wife, even if it means humbling yourself. Don’t bully her or argue with her. Work towards a compromise.

Praying for you both,

Ruthie

 

[Norseman82]

WHY can’t the OP just turn the other cheek? The FIL is a jerk - I think we all agree on that, but why can’t he just let it go? Be the bigger, better man? He is asking for a reasonable response (an apology) out of a very unreasonable man. It isn’t going to happen… can’t he just let it go? They live HOURS away… it’s not like he has to hang with the guy every weekend. Forgive - forget and try to keep my distance from the guy on the next visit… out of love for my spouse, that’s what I would do.

Because this only enables the alcoholic and his enablers and instead of breaking the cycle, only continues it. The family probably has been “turning the other cheek” and “forgiving and forgetting” for years, and we see how well this has worked out.

 

[whatevergirl]

Because this only enables the alcoholic and his enablers and instead of breaking the cycle, only continues it. The family probably has been “turning the other cheek” and “forgiving and forgetting” for years, and we see how well this has worked out.

I agree. I think that perhaps it could be (high emphasis on could) an eye opener for the FIL, if his daughter and her husband fail to visit anymore, due to these drunken and verbally abusive episodes. He learns nothing if people continue to ‘turn the other cheek.’ Turning the other cheek also wasn’t intended to mean to enable people to continue on a path of sin. It seems to me, that the line means to forgive if someone has hurt you, if he/she has apologized…don’t hold a grudge…etc. If the FIL doesn’t see anything wrong with his poor behavior, then forgiving and forgetting is a moot point, really…because he doesn’t care – only that he continues to get his own way. I think that if he is ever to overcome this addiction, it will take people helping him to see he has a serious problem to begin with, and to stop turning a blind eye to sinful behavior.

 

[Lifeisamazing]

I was just wondering- Did the wife not want to leave stuff behind b/c that meant having to return sooner than later to pick it up?

Often we husbands and wives state our conclusions without sharing how we got to the end result. Spouses need to respect the thought process of the other, share their own reasoning, and ask the other how or why they feel the way the do. Maybe the talk could’ve gone like this:

Husband:
“Hey honey- I am concerned over safety. Traveling with a loaded down car makes me nervous- after all- you and the kids are my precious cargo.”

The she might have said, “I guess I just don’t want to have to come back here to pick this stuff up, if ya know what I mean.”

Then hubby could’ve said, “Yay. I know what you mean. But, you and kiddos are more important than that. OK? I can come pick it up another time. It is just stuff.”

Ofcourse, this is just speculation and maybe playing angel’s advocate here.

And to answer a PP about not fighting in the home when it was something that needed resolution-- well read the above again. No need for heated words in this benign situation. Just better communication and self restraint. If those two things fail, then seek privacy outside or in another room.

( Oh, and OP— You sound like a loving Dad and Husband. I understand you are just venting and looking for new points of view. We all benefit from that on this forum!)

.

 

[Norseman82]

I was just wondering- Did the wife not want to leave stuff behind b/c that meant having to return sooner than later to pick it up?

Hmm…never thought of that…but I’ll let the OP comment on it.

 

[ac_claire]

Cite the source for this.

It is not in the Catechism, or in any of the Church Doctrine or Dogma I have researched.

It appears to be the opinion of a person, not binding on the Faithful.

In post #39 Leonius stated that this is advice he’d received. He never said it was dogma (?!) or from the CCC. However, I read the exceprts and in fact I’ve read the entire document and it’s 100% in accord with Scripture and with Church teaching on marriage.

 

[kage_ar]

In post #39 Leonius stated that this is advice he’d received. He never said it was dogma (?!) or from the CCC. However, I read the exceprts and in fact I’ve read the entire document and it’s 100% in accord with Scripture and with Church teaching on marriage.

Pray, show me where the Scripture and official Church teachings say married couples should not live with their parents.

That would mean that, well, almost every married person outside of modern North American is breaking Church teaching.

 

[ac_claire]

Pray, show me where the Scripture and official Church teachings say married couples should not live with their parents.

That would mean that, well, almost every married person outside of modern North American is breaking Church teaching.

“In accord with”…ie, it agrees with; it does not contradict. Perhaps that is what I should have said. Once again, this (and the one point you single out above) was presented as practical advice, not commandments, dogma or catechism. Overall, the writing is 100% in accordance with Church teaching on marriage.

 

[kage_ar]

“In accord with”…ie, it agrees with; it does not contradict. Perhaps that is what I should have said. Once again, this (and the one point you single out above) was presented as practical advice, not commandments, dogma or catechism. Overall, the writing is 100% in accordance with Church teaching on marriage.

Accord is much stronger than “does not contradict”. This should have been presented as pious OPINION, it was put forth as Church Teaching.

 

[ac_claire]

Accord is much stronger than “does not contradict”. This should have been presented as pious OPINION, it was put forth as Church Teaching.

No, it wasn’t put forth as Church teaching. Go back and read over the thread. This is what I’ve been trying to tell you.

 

[Meximo]

so i have a bit of a problem. i think i am not only in the right but above and beyond, my wife thinks i am in the wrong. since we’ve just been going in circles for a few weeks i thought id seek a different perspective, because i could be wrong.

so my father in law is a an alcoholic, admittedly, but he refuses to quit. his refusals include being kicked out of 2 rehab centers because he wouldn’t do anything but sleep and eat. and these weren’t the low end places. he wouldn’t even go unless it was where he wanted, and each trip bankrupted their family, and arose suspicion of philandering while he was away.

for nearly two decades he was physically and verbally abusive to his children, to the point that 3 of the 4 are still scared of him today even though they are all grown and out on their own.

i have more but that’s enough back story for now. on to the issue at hand.

we went down the week before Christmas so everyone could see the baby, exchange presents, eat and all that. i thought i was already being nice because they changed they date 3 times on me in the month prior and each time just agreed and canceled my other commitments.

we went all went well. they morning we were leaving my wife and i got into an argument, a heated one at that. it lasted maybe 5 minutes and that includes the time it took us to cool down apologize and be done with it.

well a minute or so later my father in law pulls me into the other room and berates me for 10 minutes on what i do wrong and concludes with that if i don’t treat his daughter better he will "put me in the ground’. he had been drinking.

i saw that i had two options. out of love for my wife i ignored #1 and didn’t have him arrested. i chose #2 leave(we were going anyways) but make it clear that my daughter and i would not be under the same roof as him again until i got an apology. once received i would drop it and be like it never happened.

well apparently im the only one who thinks this is reasonable.

am i wrong? and if so why? and what should i do?

I am an only child. My dad was a heavy drinker before my teens and straighten up so no adult experience with alcoholism, but I have lived with my parents as a married adult with my husband and two children and had many a heated arguments with my husband. My parents both of whom are sober Never took my husband aside to berate him. Albeit I would get the lecture reminding me the roll of a wife. I know different circumstance… but now on to another…

My husband comes from a very dysfunctional physically abusive family. His mom is mentally unstable. Because of that instability we don’t visit often. We try not to visit with her because she is really toxic and carries on with toxic people around her. We get the guilt from her every holiday season. And we do visit but it group settings. We had to set boundaries but we set them together.

Now you already apologized to your wife for the argument. So I don’t think another apology is necessary. You know what might help other than prayer is confession. My husband and I find that confession helps us think clearly and make better decisions.

I will be praying for you and your family.

 

[tundramom]

I haven’t read the whole thread yet, but my suggestion would be to encourage your wife and MIL to go to Al-Anon. Not for helping understand HIS disease, but to understand how this disease has affected them and their reactions/actions towards him.

Although the word has been over-used IMHO, it sounds to me like they are all suffering from classic co-dependence issues. They’ve tried getting him help, but do they get help for themselves.

in Christ
Steph

 

[aggiecatholic05]

well my wife and i have agreed to disagree for now. we both plan to pray think about and duscuss the issue. however since the earliest forseeable time we would see her parents again is the 4th of july we decided to not rush anything/

we have both read all the comments on this thread and appreciate them(even the ones we dont agree with).

personally im still conflicted i think my fil should get his log before worring about my speck. i know Jesus urged forgivness but wrong is still wrong and He didnt just ignore the money changers.

honestly i realize expecting an apology from a drunk is somewhat pointless, but i still dont see me owing anyone one either.

aa for him seems pointless. that stuff only works if the person wants help. now for my wife and mil i like that idea. its a big part of the reason i posted to get fresh angles.

so thanks all, and if you havr other thoughts and such let em rip.