Am I being a jerk about chastity?

[Bitternolonger]

If you cannot love this girl without reservations, please let her go.

She is a child of God and the number one job of a husband is to love our wives as Jesus loves the Church. And how does Jesus love the Church? He died on a Cross for us, even while we were still sinners as Paul says.

Thats the way we are called to love our wives. You are called to die to yourself and love your wife as you love yourself. It is not easy and should not be entered into lightly.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Okay, I was shocked. I never thought I would marry an experienced woman who gave her body to anothwr guy. I get that people mess up, but the thought of my wife having been with another man grosses me out big time. I told her I was really hurt that ahe had given away her virginity so easily and I have not called her since Sunday.

What do you mean by “hurt”? Perhaps you mean “disappointed”? I don’t think hurt would be an appropriate term to use here, in that it doesn’t really make sense to be hurt by a mistake someone made before you even knew them… maybe if she had lied to you about it and you found out that way, but that’s not what happened.

I know she’s embarrassed and hurt and probably thought I would say it was not a big deal, but it is. She won’t ever be able to give me the gift of her virginity and yet I have held out. She’s a great girl in every other way except she lost her virtue.

What do you mean “lost her virtue”?

I don’t want to be a jerk or have too high of expectations. I just don’t know if this should be a dead breaker or if I am passing up a great woman who simply made a mistake when she was a kid.

Can I get over this? Should I? Is she fit to be a mother if she can’t honestly say she waited for her husband? I know the Lord says to forgive but He also says to use good judgment.

In my honest opinion: you’re talking about this woman like she’s a piece of spoiled fruit or something. She’s not. She’s a daughter of God that made a few mistakes a long time ago, repented and has changed her life. She’s not forever ruined. If God in all his perfection can forgive her, you can too!

Do I think you’re going to ever find a better woman? No, I doubt it.

 

[Luminous7]

New here and looking for some honest advice. I am 29 years old and very interested in getting married within the next couple of years. So far I have worked hard to obtain a Masters degree and an excellent job so that I am fully prepared to start a family financially, educationally and spiritually. I am one of five kids, and all my siblings are married including my little sister. So I am really only looking to seriously date for a potential marriage.

About four months ago I started dating a girl who is a Masters student at the college where I work. She is 25 years old. She’s pretty, funny, smart, comes from a good family and is very religious. I really like her. I think she would make a good mom and wife from what I know so far. We are totally on the same page as far as faith goes - we are both practicing and active Catholics.

Here’s the problem. After four months of pretty serious dating, I told her that I liked her very much and could see a future with her. I told her how glad I was that I’d saved myself for marriage, too. Unfortunately she took that time to tell me that she had had sex with a boyfriend when she was a senior in high school, 7 years ago. She told me that they were both Catholics, cared for one another very deeply, caved to temptation on about 5 occasions and then both went to confession and agreed to continue ahead chastely. When they left for college the relationship ended and she said she has fully repented of her sins and has been chaste for 7 years and intends to not have any more sex until marriage.

Okay, I was shocked. I never thought I would marry an experienced woman who gave her body to anothwr guy. I get that people mess up, but the thought of my wife having been with another man grosses me out big time. I told her I was really hurt that ahe had given away her virginity so easily and I have not called her since Sunday.

I know she’s embarrassed and hurt and probably thought I would say it was not a big deal, but it is. She won’t ever be able to give me the gift of her virginity and yet I have held out. She’s a great girl in every other way except she lost her virtue. I don’t want to be a jerk or have too high of expectations. I just don’t know if this should be a dead breaker or if I am passing up a great woman who simply made a mistake when she was a kid.

Can I get over this? Should I? Is she fit to be a mother if she can’t honestly say she waited for her husband? I know the Lord says to forgive but He also says to use good judgment.

---

I know where you’re coming from I too am repulsed when a woman/men have no respect for sex and pass each other around like in a brothel or are the “friends with benefits” sort of thing, it’s almost an instant disqualification. And I too can get over other sins but the sex/virginity is a tough one for me too.
However, in your case the way you describe her she sounds way more than decent, and she’s sorry and learned over a past mistake, which speaks volumes. Heck if I found someone like that I would be more than satisfied.
The tough choice is if you let her go when do you think you will cross paths with someone else who has all the above. You might even find a virgin, who has some of the qualities you are looking for but you might find she is missing a lot on the personality traits, or you might find you just won’t jive or have chemistry like with this other one. It’s a gamble for sure. As a result you might find yourself, like me, at age 37 and still haven’t found “the one”. No matter how you look at it, it’s in my mind the toughest thing in the world. But I would go for this one.

 

[LaSainte]

Did you save yourself for marriage too or did your right hand have the privilege of being your first?

Seriously, let her go. She doesn’t need your baggage and she doesn’t deserve to be treated like a piece of used chewing gum by somebody who would be her husband. You never mentioned love or anything even remotely close. It’s like you’re shopping for cattle.

I would use caution in being so judgmental though. Not a whole lot of 30 year old virgins running around.

 

[maryjk]

Did you save yourself for marriage too or did your right hand have the privilege of being your first?

So true.

 

[Usige]

I find it utterly fascinating how many people imply that the OP is harshly judging her, yet many turn around and use an overly aggressive tone and judge him. Fifty to sixty years ago no one would have thought twice about someone questioning marriage to someone that was not a virgin, but now he’s “seeking perfection” or not being forgiving enough. Maybe if we lived in a society that valued chastity people wouldn’t be so quick to say “dude its no big deal.” Obviously the OP was raised to believe in the value of chastity so he has legitimate concerns and is obviously struggling to reconcile something ingrained as it should be in all of us.

To the OP you have to look to see if this is something you can accept. There is nothing either of you can do to change it. We all make mistakes and have to ask God for the strength to accept both our failing and the failings of others. I completely understand where you are coming from. I have been married for 19 years and still occasionally feel jealousy for my wife’s former boy friends and they were not intimate. The thought of her simply kissing someone else bothers me to this day. That being said I tell myself that she said yes to share her life with me in marriage, not with any of them. Simply pray and ask God to let you accept what is. If you still feel that you can’t look past it don’t let anyone tell you your a jerk. Its not a reflection on her or you if this is a stumbling block. If you feel you you to break it I’d simply say “I appreciate that you shared it with me. I dont want to hurt you, but its not something I can get past.”

 

[hotdiggity]

IMHO she has apparently confessed, been forgiven, and is living a chaste life now.

who are we to hold a repented and forgiven sin over another person’s head?

if you can’t forgive her, get over this, etc, you should totally stop dating her…as has already been said, it would be a great disservice to her.

 

[BrethrenBoy]

For what it’s worth, though, I saved myself for marriage. When I started dating my now husband, I found that he not only had a sexual past but what I perceived to be a very sordid past. After he opened up to me and gently explained what he had done, my heart hurt so deeply with regret, with betrayal (even though he didn’t know me at the time!), with absolute pain… But I will tell you this. I prayed long and I prayed hard, and I still came to the conclusion that this was the man I was called to marry. Not to fix him, not to change him, but to embrace him. To allow him to embrace me. To make peace with that which can not be undone. I didn’t settle. I just didn’t give up on him when my initial reaction was to run as fast as I could.

Your story reminds me of the former Youth Pastor at my church. He is a convert, and told us when we discussed this topic that he had made this mistake and done it starting in middle school. He converted later in life, and repented of this. He told us how bad horrible he felt on his wedding night that his wife had waited of him while he had not, and how he would have traded it all in order to have been pure for his wife. He is a devoted husband, father, and Christian as well as who I chose as my mentor when I was baptized and enter the church.

 

[Caroline723]

It doesn’t sound like you love her with the type of love that can sustain a marriage. Your original note reads like an algorithm to finding the ideal woman.

Many people who lose their virginity and regret it, give up on future chastity entirely. It is more rare to find a person who falls and picks herself up and carries on with self-respect. Honestly, you should be ashamed of your reaction; of the two of you, who was more Christ-like in that exchange?

I think your reaction to her news is going to have a permanent negative effect on a future with her. For that reason alone, I think you have squandered your chances with this girl.

 

[lerapt78]

She told me that they were both Catholics, cared for one another very deeply, caved to temptation on about 5 occasions and then both went to confession and agreed to continue ahead chastely. When they left for college the relationship ended and she said she has fully repented of her sins and has been chaste for 7 years and intends to not have any more sex until marriage.

Since you are a virgin I see no wrong in feeling disappointment that this woman cannot offer you the same – you’re not asking anything of her that you yourself are not able to give in return.

Neither do I normally adopt the attitude that suggests just because one has repented of a sin it’s as if the sin never occurred at all, has left no impact on the person, or that one has to willingly embrace the person as a marriage partner. But I *do *think the bolded part bears some consideration, namely because it illustrates the sincerity of her repentance and present commitment. It would be one thing if your girlfriend pretended to be committed to chastity once she started dating you, but you later found out that up until you got together she had been sleeping around, and had even been doing so indiscriminately. If that were the case, I would personally be skeptical that she was merely attempting to present and maintain an illusion of holding certain values (which contrasted with her behavior) and of being someone she is not in order to keep your interest. Or that her opinion on chastity was fleeting.

But she hasn’t done this.

She repented of her error and held firmly to her newfound conviction for seven years. That’s a very admirable record for a 25 year-old, especially one who is pretty, funny, and smart, and who therefore probably has a lot of guys showing interest in her. It suggests to me that she has been absolutely cemented in her beliefs regarding restraint. This doesn’t automatically mean that you must continue the relationship, but it *should *bear further insight into her character.

I get that people mess up, but the thought of my wife having been with another man grosses me out big time. ** I told her I was really hurt** that ahe had given away her virginity so easily and I have not called her since Sunday.

A comment on this: I think you may be reacting in an overly-sensitive way by feeling personally hurt by this. Disappointed? Yes, that’s understandable. But *personally *hurt? She hasn’t done anything to *you *intentionally, as you were never in the picture when she was having relations with her boyfriend.

Can I get over this? Should I? Is she fit to be a mother if she can’t honestly say she waited for her husband? I know the Lord says to forgive but He also says to use good judgment.

Good judgment is certainly crucial when deciding upon a mate – if only everyone practiced a bit more of this! But I don’t understand the connection you’re making between one sin and her future ability to be a good mother. What I see is one mistake over which she has repented and refrained from committing again; I don’t see a continuous pattern of poor choices (which might otherwise suggest an entirely different problem).

Part of being well-suited to teaching the basics of Catholic morality to future children IMO would not stem from having a complete *lack *of personal sin, but rather the ability to (1)recognize one’s sin (2) make a sincere determination not to repeat it, and (3) even better = to *stick *with that determination!

Just my meager $.02. I wish you the best in your decision. And welcome to CAF.

 

[catholicmamajoy]

I find it utterly fascinating how many people imply that the OP is harshly judging her, yet many turn around and use an overly aggressive tone and judge him. Fifty to sixty years ago no one would have thought twice about someone questioning marriage to someone that was not a virgin, but now he’s “seeking perfection” or not being forgiving enough. Maybe if we lived in a society that valued chastity people wouldn’t be so quick to say “dude its no big deal.” Obviously the OP was raised to believe in the value of chastity so he has legitimate concerns and is obviously struggling to reconcile something ingrained as it should be in all of us.

To the OP you have to look to see if this is something you can accept. There is nothing either of you can do to change it. We all make mistakes and have to ask God for the strength to accept both our failing and the failings of others. I completely understand where you are coming from. I have been married for 19 years and still occasionally feel jealousy for my wife’s former boy friends and they were not intimate. The thought of her simply kissing someone else bothers me to this day. That being said I tell myself that she said yes to share her life with me in marriage, not with any of them. Simply pray and ask God to let you accept what is. If you still feel that you can’t look past it don’t let anyone tell you your a jerk. Its not a reflection on her or you if this is a stumbling block. If you feel you you to break it I’d simply say “I appreciate that you shared it with me. I dont want to hurt you, but its not something I can get past.”

The comments you feel are using an overly aggressive tone might have something to do with the fact he questioned if she’d be a fit mother because she had sex with her then-boyfriend, seven years ago, as a teenager, and has thus repented and been chaste ever since. He also stated she has lost her virtue. His understanding of virtue is quite narrow-sighted. Virtue is a trait and characteristic that goes far, far beyond having had sex before marriage and from what he has said about her and how she’s lived her life after the high school boyfriend mistake, it sounds like she’s quite virtuous. He has two choices he can make…either admit her lack of viginity (although God has forgiven her) is a deal-breaker or he can make the decision to love her unconditionally, as this young women may very well be the one Christ has chosen for him.

 

[catholicmamajoy]

Did you save yourself for marriage too or did your right hand have the privilege of being your first?

Seriously, let her go. She doesn’t need your baggage and she doesn’t deserve to be treated like a piece of used chewing gum by somebody who would be her husband. You never mentioned love or anything even remotely close. It’s like you’re shopping for cattle.

I would use caution in being so judgmental though. Not a whole lot of 30 year old virgins running around.

Also, what about any impure thoughts and images he might have entertained since puberty? We are reminded in Matthew 5:27-28 “But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

 

[MidnightSun12]

I am a convert to the faith (26 yr old male) and I unfortunately had pre-marital sex. In fact, it was the pre-marital sex that actually brought about my conversion. I know that I am called to marriage one day and I know that this sin will be something my future wife will need to accept about me.

I would like to say that the OP is being pig-headed and that he should forgive and forget, but I cannot. Pre-marital sex is a very serious sin and sin has consequences in both this life and the next. There is also risk that goes with marrying such a person… STD’s that don’t have symptoms, a permanently altered outlook on life, etc…

In my case, I would not see pre-marital sex as being a serious obstacle to marriage provided that my future wife had fully repented and we both got screened, but I cannot say that the OP is wrong or uncharitable for taking issue with it.

That said, the OP needs to make his decision and act quickly. It’s not right to leave this poor lady hanging like this.

 

[ShanaA1984]

Yes I do think you are being a jerk. I also think you are being pretty shallow by defining this poor girl by her virginal state (or lack there of). She has repented and been chaste for 7 years. God has forgiven her why can’t you?

 

[Allegra]

I think you should see a priest and really consider if you are emotionally ready to engage in courtship, much less, give yourself in marriage. Being disappointed is one thing, but this sin was committed when your girlfriend was a child and she repented of it years ago and has changed her life. If it is a dealbreaker for you, it shouldn’t be.

 

[wmw]

I’m shocked too. Someone that has remained chased after giving into temptation, but with the grace and spiritual power to turn away from it. She’s living in today’s world and straightened herself out without convincing herself it was OK.

This is a rare gem. Some gems are more for their flaws. I think it would be great if you could see her in this way rather than as only flawed. If you can’t then I think you were prepared to marry her for yourself and not for her and that wasn’t true love. So, in the end it’s the question do you really Love her?

 

[agnes_therese]

It’s hard for me. I don’t want to be a jerk but I’ve been told my whole life how important it is to save yourself for marriage. And I’ve worked hard at that. Now I’m being asked to let that expectation go, and I mean some things you can’t take back. I do really care for this woman and she is a great person in every other way. It just seems hard to give someone a pass after being told how critical chastity is. I do appreciate the frank feedback. I am not a mean person and want to do what is right long term.

If you can’t deal with this, please do the honorable thing and break off this relationship quickly. Then you can find someone “pure,” and she can find someone more understanding of youthful mistakes.

 

[Rete]

She sounds like a treasure to me. A woman to be loved and doted upon. Faithful, loyal, and virtuous. I almost wonder if this is a fake story because of how perfect she sounds.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Since you are a virgin I see no wrong in feeling disappointment that this woman cannot offer you the same – you’re not asking anything of her that you yourself are not able to give in return.

Neither do I normally adopt the attitude that suggests just because one has repented of a sin it’s as if the sin never occurred at all, has left no impact on the person, or that one has to willingly embrace the person as a marriage partner. But I *do *think the bolded part bears some consideration, namely because it illustrates the sincerity of her repentance and present commitment. It would be one thing if your girlfriend pretended to be committed to chastity once she started dating you, but you later found out that up until you got together she had been sleeping around, and had even been doing so indiscriminately. If that were the case, I would personally be skeptical that she was merely attempting to present and maintain an illusion of holding certain values (which contrasted with her behavior) and of being someone she is not in order to keep your interest. Or that her opinion on chastity was fleeting.

But she hasn’t done this.

She repented of her error and held firmly to her newfound conviction for seven years. That’s a very admirable record for a 25 year-old, especially one who is pretty, funny, and smart, and who therefore probably has a lot of guys showing interest in her. It suggests to me that she has been absolutely cemented in her beliefs regarding restraint. This doesn’t automatically mean that you must continue the relationship, but it *should *bear further insight into her character.

A comment on this: I think you may be reacting in an overly-sensitive way by feeling personally hurt by this. Disappointed? Yes, that’s understandable. But *personally *hurt? She hasn’t done anything to *you *intentionally, as you were never in the picture when she was having relations with her boyfriend.

Good judgment is certainly crucial when deciding upon a mate – if only everyone practiced a bit more of this! But I don’t understand the connection you’re making between one sin and her future ability to be a good mother. What I see is one mistake over which she has repented and refrained from committing again; I don’t see a continuous pattern of poor choices (which might otherwise suggest an entirely different problem).

I find it utterly fascinating how many people imply that the OP is harshly judging her, yet many turn around and use an overly aggressive tone and judge him. Fifty to sixty years ago no one would have thought twice about someone questioning marriage to someone that was not a virgin, but now he’s “seeking perfection” or not being forgiving enough. Maybe if we lived in a society that valued chastity people wouldn’t be so quick to say “dude its no big deal.” Obviously the OP was raised to believe in the value of chastity so he has legitimate concerns and is obviously struggling to reconcile something ingrained as it should be in all of us.

To the OP you have to look to see if this is something you can accept. There is nothing either of you can do to change it. We all make mistakes and have to ask God for the strength to accept both our failing and the failings of others. I completely understand where you are coming from. I have been married for 19 years and still occasionally feel jealousy for my wife’s former boy friends and they were not intimate. The thought of her simply kissing someone else bothers me to this day. That being said I tell myself that she said yes to share her life with me in marriage, not with any of them. Simply pray and ask God to let you accept what is. If you still feel that you can’t look past it don’t let anyone tell you your a jerk. Its not a reflection on her or you if this is a stumbling block. If you feel you you to break it I’d simply say “I appreciate that you shared it with me. I dont want to hurt you, but its not something I can get past.”

I don’t think you are a jerk for valuing virginity. It is a good thing! Having sex with someone other than your spouse (even before you meet your spouse) does have effects. Sex was made to bond the two people involved. It does matter, it is valuable to save yourself for marriage. It is relevant, but it doesn’t mean that she cannot be a wonderful spouse and mother, though. I think it says a lot that she slipped 7 years ago with one person, but was repentant and was able to remain chaste for 7 years after that. The fact that it affects, that it is something that a person wants to take into consideration when finding a spouse, does not necessarily mean that they feel that he is holier than she is. As Catholics we do believe that our sins can have temporal effects. Your decision is whether this is something you can deal with in marriage. You may have faults that she may have decided beforehand that she does not want in a potential spouse and she would have to decide if to move on with the relationship or not. Knowing that her past affects you could be something she doesn’t want to deal with either. Marriage can be tough and so things like this are something to keep in mind.

And I’m sorry, but even if a guy has had masturbation problems it isn’t the same as sharing the marital embrace with another woman as some may imply. They are both sins against chastity, but the effects are not identical.

I don’t think that the fact that it affects your feelings really means you are not ready for marriage, or you are a horrible person. To be honest, I wanted to marry a virgin, and I did end up marrying one. It was a quality I was looking for, I was a virgin as well, but it doesn’t mean that if I would have met someone that was not a virgin, that I would have automatically decided against marrying them.

 

[detoutcoeur]

New here and looking for some honest advice. I am 29 years old and very interested in getting married within the next couple of years. So far I have worked hard to obtain a Masters degree and an excellent job so that I am fully prepared to start a family financially, educationally and spiritually. I am one of five kids, and all my siblings are married including my little sister. So I am really only looking to seriously date for a potential marriage.

About four months ago I started dating a girl who is a Masters student at the college where I work. She is 25 years old. She’s pretty, funny, smart, comes from a good family and is very religious. I really like her. I think she would make a good mom and wife from what I know so far. We are totally on the same page as far as faith goes - we are both practicing and active Catholics.

Here’s the problem. After four months of pretty serious dating, I told her that I liked her very much and could see a future with her. I told her how glad I was that I’d saved myself for marriage, too. Unfortunately she took that time to tell me that she had had sex with a boyfriend when she was a senior in high school, 7 years ago. She told me that they were both Catholics, cared for one another very deeply, caved to temptation on about 5 occasions and then both went to confession and agreed to continue ahead chastely. When they left for college the relationship ended and she said she has fully repented of her sins and has been chaste for 7 years and intends to not have any more sex until marriage.

Okay, I was shocked. I never thought I would marry an experienced woman who gave her body to anothwr guy. I get that people mess up, but the thought of my wife having been with another man grosses me out big time. I told her I was really hurt that ahe had given away her virginity so easily and I have not called her since Sunday.

I know she’s embarrassed and hurt and probably thought I would say it was not a big deal, but it is. She won’t ever be able to give me the gift of her virginity and yet I have held out. She’s a great girl in every other way except she lost her virtue. I don’t want to be a jerk or have too high of expectations. I just don’t know if this should be a dead breaker or if I am passing up a great woman who simply made a mistake when she was a kid.

Can I get over this? Should I? Is she fit to be a mother if she can’t honestly say she waited for her husband? I know the Lord says to forgive but He also says to use good judgment.

Welcome to the forums, Flamepoint. I do think you will get over it. I sense from your post that you know that she has brought something precious into your life. Stay in touch and let her know you’re going through something. Make an appointment with your confessor and let him guide and advise you. Pray often, before the tabernacle if possible. Move slowly and take your time. Things may soon look very different.