Am I being logical?

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=StrawberryJam;5708344]Well, since I think catholics believe the church is human and divine, I suppose a catholic could view it as both depending on the context of the remarks.
Personally, I’ve seen catholics state to non catholics that their refusal to believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity is a slap in the face to God and, I know it is a hot topic but come on.:rolleyes:
In a case like that, I would look at the intention of the person and realize they also love God.
Your question is a trap question, basically.
Friend, I’m FAR to dumb to have the ability to entrap someone. If anything, I’m to darn blunt:blush:

I have never heard such a conversation, but I do agree with it. What we do to Mary, the Mother of “you do unto me”] God. And no we do not worship Mary!:rolleyes:
 
When ever this is brought up it seems so embarassing that there are Roman catholics who are as defensive as hillbillies.

For heaven sake there are one billion catholics on earth now. Someone who criticizes the church is like the fly at the picnic, he won’t eat much…
 
=ClydeW;5709599]It isn’t hard to believe that Mary was not a perpetual virgin since she had other children. She could not have remained a virgin. She had other children and the Bible even names them. That’s just one of those things Roman Catholics want to believe even though there is no Scriptural basis for it at all, quite the contrary James, the Lord’s brother is mentioned several times and was head of the church at Jerusalem. It also said in the early church leaders writings that he looked just like Jesus enough to have been his twin.
This is one of those things manufactured in order to fit something they wanted to be true.
“Blessed Virgin Mary”

BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF JESUS ???
Many non-Catholic people say that the use of the words brothers and sisters of Jesus, in the scriptures’ means that Mary had other children after the birth of Our Lord, and therefore did not remain virgin after His birth. This is false teaching, according to the Church founded by Jesus and guaranteed by Him to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and therefore free from error in her teaching.

A more logical and acceptable explanation could be that the Scriptures, written by the Hebrews in the Greek language, used the word adelphos, which is the same as the word 'ah in Hebrew, and has a broad base of meaning, from all forms of blood relationship to close friends and followers. New Testament writers used the term brother and sister in the same manner, but Jesus said that only they who follow the commands of My Father are My brothers and sisters.

Matthew 13:55 shows the brothers of Jesus as being James, Joseph, Simon and Judas, but they are identified in the Scriptures as having different parents, so the phrase does not apply to any children of Mary, our Blessed Mother.*** If Jesus had any blood related brothers and sisters, why did He designate, from the cross, Mary to be the mother of John and for John to be her son?

Hebrew writers of the Old Testament used the term brother in the same way as previously mentioned. In 2 Samuel 1:26, David, in his lament after the death of Saul and Jonathan, refers to Jonathan as his brother. Jonathan was the son of Saul and his wife Shinoam, so how could he be the brother of David? We see many other mentions of the word brother where no relationship exists, in 1 Kings 9:13, 2 Chronicles 29:34 and 1 Samuel 30:23, to mention just a few.

In order to have had other children, after Jesus, Mary could not have remained virgin, and this is antithetical to Church teaching. Pope St. Ciricius (384-398) covered the question very succinctly in his letter to Anysius in 392, when he said that Jesus would not have been born to the virgin if He thought that she would be so incontinent, that with the seed of human copulation, she would pollute the generative chamber of the Lords body, that palace of the Eternal King. He went on further to say that if we accept the Jewish priests’ authority , we sweep away the truth with great zeal.

The Lateran Council, called by Pope St. Martin 1, (649-653), states in canon 3: “If anyone does not properly and honestly confess in accord with the Holy Fathers, that the holy mother of God, and ever virgin and immaculate Mary, in the earliest of the ages conceived of the Holy Spirit without seed, namely, God the Word before all ages, and that she incorruptibly bore Him, her virginity remaining indestructible, even after His birth, let him be condemned.” We are not discussing rumors or myths here, but the teaching of a validly convened council of the Roman Catholic Church, and as such, we do not have the freedom to reject this teaching without divorcing ourselves from the Catholic Church, because in rejecting her teaching we become heretics.

The key words in the pronouncement are 'ever virgin’ and her ‘virginity remaining indestructible’. There can be no doubt at all about what St. Martin and the Lateran Council were saying."

" Bother" defined by Hebrew meaning is "Strong’s Concordance"

251 'ach awkh a primitive word; a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like 1)):–another, brother(-ly); kindred, like, other. Compare also the proper names beginning with “Ah-” or “Ahi-”.​

252 'ach akh (Aramaic) corresponding to 251:–brother.​

256 ‘Ach’ab akh-awb’ once (by contraction) oEchab (Jer. 29:22) {ekh- awb’}; from 251 and 1; brother (i.e. friend) of (his) father; Achab, the name of a king of Israel and of a prophet at Babylon:–Ahab.​

257 ‘Achban akh-bawn’ from 251 and 995; brother (i.e. possessor) of understanding; Achban, an Israelite:–Ahban.​

267 ‘Achuwmay akh-oo-mah’-ee perhaps from 251 and 4325; brother (i.e. neighbour) of water; Achumai, an Israelite:–Ahumai.​

279 ‘Achiyam akh-ee-awm’ from 251 and 517; brother of the mother (i.e. uncle); Achiam, an Israelite:–Ahiam.​

281 ‘Achiyah akh-ee-yaw or (prolonged) pAchiyahuw {akh-ee-yaw’-hoo}; from 251 and 3050; brother (i.e. worshipper) of Jah; Achijah, the name of nine Israelites:–Ahiah, Ahijah.
 
Friend, I’m FAR to dumb to have the ability to entrap someone. If anything, I’m to darn blunt:blush:

I have never heard such a conversation, but I do agree with it. What we do to Mary, the Mother of “you do unto me”] God. And no we do not worship Mary!:rolleyes:
I never saw anyone worship Mary at all the Masses I have been to.

So…
 
When ever this is brought up it seems so embarassing that there are Roman catholics who are as defensive as hillbillies.

Perhaps its because Catholics have a faith worth defending 👍
So, how defensive are hillbillies ?
 
It isn’t hard to believe that Mary was not a perpetual virgin since she had other children. She could not have remained a virgin. She had other children and the Bible even names them. That’s just one of those things Roman Catholics want to believe even though there is no Scriptural basis for it at all, quite the contrary James, the Lord’s brother is mentioned several times and was head of the church at Jerusalem. It also said in the early church leaders writings that he looked just like Jesus enough to have been his twin.

This is one of those things manufactured in order to fit something they wanted to be true.
:rolleyes: Different topic entirely, Clyde.

Interesting OP. The answer seems to be a definite maybe. 😉

I think it would depend on:
  1. What “bashing” means.
  2. What specifically is being bashed.
  3. The intent behind the bashing.
  4. The knowledge of the basher of what is being bashed.
For example, let’s take the folks at the Westboro Baptist Church. Their theology is, at best and most charitably…let’s say…“confused”. I don’t understand it. But are they confused about their application in how to worship the Almighty and in their interpretation of scripture while retaining a smidgeon of worship in terms of respecting the Almighty?

I would bash their logic any day on how they got from A) Some whacko used a bomb (IED) to blow up their church to B) The same type of IED is used in Iraq to kill our soldiers, therefor God is getting back at the USA for promoting homosexuality, and we all are doomed (except, of course, the members of the WBC).

However, if they were genuinely involved in worshipping the Lord outside of their obnoxious and caustic demonstrations, I would not bash such a practice.

My point is that some people outside the Catholic Church probably look at Catholics as being just as kooky as the WBC folks, and “bash” our worship practices.
 
=Newbie2;5715230]:rolleyes: Different topic entirely, Clyde.
Interesting OP. The answer seems to be a definite maybe. 😉
I think it would depend on:
  1. What “bashing” means.
  1. What specifically is being bashed.
  1. The intent behind the bashing.
  1. The knowledge of the basher of what is being bashed.
For example, let’s take the folks at the Westboro Baptist Church. Their theology is, at best and most charitably…let’s say…“confused”. I don’t understand it. But are they confused about their application in how to worship the Almighty and in their interpretation of scripture while retaining a smidgeon of worship in terms of respecting the Almighty?
I would bash their logic any day on how they got from A) Some whacko used a bomb (IED) to blow up their church to B) The same type of IED is used in Iraq to kill our soldiers, therefor God is getting back at the USA for promoting homosexuality, and we all are doomed (except, of course, the members of the WBC).
However, if they were genuinely involved in worshipping the Lord outside of their obnoxious and caustic demonstrations, I would not bash such a practice.
My point is that some people outside the Catholic Church probably look at Catholics as being just as kooky as the WBC folks, and “bash” our worship practices.
Ya know folks, it would benefit us all if wanna be critics actually read the replies we post. I know I have replied to these “paroted charges” at least twice with very specific and verifible inforation that PROVE the position of our Catholic Church.

If nevessary I shall do so again. Do you really want to know the truth, or are you happier in the land of make believe:shrug:

We love you, but darn, please pay attention.

Love and prayers,
 
Not necessarily, so no, not logically. And probably not usually.

Most people who make critical remarks in a “bashing” kind of way about the Roman Catholic Church do not believe all or part of what the CC claims. They see God, or Truth, as something separate from the Church. And more, because they believe the CC is claiming unTruths of some kind, they are likely intending to protect God or Truth in revealing what they think are the deficiencies of Catholicism.

Intent is all important in this case, even if we take it as a given that the Catholic understanding is 100% correct. If someone unwittingly attacked me indirectly it would affect me, even though the intent was good. With God that is not the case, bashing has no effect on him.

Now, anyone who knowingly uses unfair, untrue, uncharitable, manipulative or otherwise inappropriate argumentative techniques is, necessarily and logically, bashing Truth, and therefore God. That would be the case no matter what the persons object of scorn, and would even be true of a Catholic trying to argue in favour of the CC or against Protestantism or atheism.

So depending on what you meant by bashing, it could be that any form of bashing is an attack on God. In which case I would say don’t worry about what non-Catholics do - it is always best to look for you own beam before other’s motes, or other’s beams for that matter.
 

Perhaps its because Catholics have a faith worth defending 👍
So, how defensive are hillbillies ?
Hillbillies are just a little bit more extreme than the folks around here where I live. People on Marylands eastern shore believe that they have a special nationality which is not shared by any other Americans. They refer to anyone who has no blood relation or no blood relation to one of their cousins, a foreigner.

A man lived here for eighty years and died, and at his funeral it was said, “He was a nice fella, for a foreigner.”
 
Bluegoat reminded me of the basic principle of mortal sin.

Three requirements according to the catholic church.

So, unless we know the state of mind of the person, and we do not…
 
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