Am I being selfish about marriage?

[ack]

This is a very good post. There are many, many married students in graduate school, especially in the programs that take longer to complete. Getting married and finishing an education are not mutually exclusive!

Finances-wise, the married graduate students are better off than the single ones, because they can share housing and health insurance.

I think there are other reasons why she doesn’t want to get married right now…

I think this may be one of my favorite responses on this thread. In a few months I too will be trying to juggle graduate school and marriage. I believe that God is calling me to work in my chosen field and has given me the gifts to make a difference. I want to be able to hone those gifts and make my life’s work pleasing to Him, and grad school is the path to do that, for me. I’m not there yet, so I can’t say anything about juggling graduate programs and marriage, but many of the graduate students in my program are married. Clearly they’re finding a way to make it work.

3-4 years does seem like a really long time for a master’s. Most master’s degrees take 2 years. A non-thesis master’s can be finished in one. I anticipate finishing my Ph.D. in 5-6 years.

That being said, I don’t recommend a long engagement either. I would have married my fiance years ago had my mother not been so opposed to me marrying before finishing my undergraduate. A good priest explained to me that long engagements can become an occasion to sin, because it arrests the natural progression of the relationship (as a previous poster said). Your heart naturally desires the intimacy of marriage, but you’re not yet married. It’s difficult.

It’s a hard thing, but I agree with others on this thread that you and your lady may not be on the same page with regards to marriage. I know how she feels, I’ve been there. Being from a family where my mother never finished college and resented being a SAHM, I always associated marriage with being “tied down” and being “nothing but a housewife.” Fortunately my fiance was loving and patient enough to wait for me to grow up and get over those attitudes. It might not be a bad idea to talk this over with a counselor.

 

[Belgarion]

So far I’m getting the idea that HE should have to give up something, but not her
So its OK to make the guy give up getting married and having a family sooner?

What if its HIS dream to get married at a younger age so at the very least he can spend THAT much more time playing and bonding with his children? Should he have to give that up because she wants to get a masters degree?

This has become a sensitive issue for me now…My own dream is as described above.

If the woman I wanted to marry came to me and asked me to give up that dream by waiting 3 or 4 years…I’d be upset!!
(although this doesn’t seem to be an issue for me at this point, the girl I am hoping to marry doesn’t seem to want something like that…)
Why should he have to give up something he wants, while she gets off without giving up a thing? Its OK for HIM to resent HER, but not vice versa?

Compromise exists for a reason.

Anyone here who thinks that the guy should be the only one giving something up is sadly mistaken. Not just because he’s a guy, I’d say the same thing if the genders were reversed.

 

[SeekerJen]

If the woman I wanted to marry came to me and asked me to give up that dream by waiting 3 or 4 years…I’d be upset!!
(although this doesn’t seem to be an issue for me at this point, the girl I am hoping to marry doesn’t seem to want something like that…)
Why should he have to give up something he wants, while she gets off without giving up a thing? Its OK for HIM to resent HER, but not vice versa?

Compromise exists for a reason.

Anyone here who thinks that the guy should be the only one giving something up is sadly mistaken. Not just because he’s a guy, I’d say the same thing if the genders were reversed.

You know what, Belgarion? I agree with you. I’m thinking that she doesn’t want to be married. There are plenty of married students in my grad program. Several of them even have kids. Grad school isn’t an excuse to put off marriage, and if she really wanted to marry the OP, she’d figure it out. IMO if she doesn’t want to marry, then she needs to set him free because it isn’t fair to him.

OTOH, we’re only hearing part of the story. It’s possible that he’s refusing to entertain the idea of compromising on her education. Maybe the state school near his home doesn’t have the program that she wants, and the Catholic school has an excellent one. Maybe she can get a lot of funding from the Catholic school to pay for her education. And as they’re not married, it’s her right to make these decisions. It’s not his right to demand that she give up her dream of attending the school of her choice to make him happy (if they were already married that would be a different story). The two of them need to sit down and have an honest conversation about what they each truly want. Hopefully compromise is possible. If not, best to cut their losses now.

And like I said earlier, Belgarion, a lot is resting on the assumption that this couple will even be able to have kids right away. Even if they marry now, the kids may be years off and those kids might be from adoption. Upwards of 10% of couples suffer from some form of infertility. As one half of one of those couples, I don’t think it’s wise to put one’s life on hold while waiting for those children to come. I don’t see why it would be a problem for the couple to marry now, have her begin school, and IF a baby came along, act accordingly. It’s nice to plan to have children (DH and I planned to have 3 to start and then go from there) but as God often laughs at our plans, making her give up her dream for something that might not even happen could destroy their marriage.

 

[SeekerJen]

Why should he have to give up something he wants, while she gets off without giving up a thing? Its OK for HIM to resent HER, but not vice versa?

Compromise exists for a reason.

Anyone here who thinks that the guy should be the only one giving something up is sadly mistaken. Not just because he’s a guy, I’d say the same thing if the genders were reversed.

After going back and reading the first page: the OP states that his intended wishes to become a Christian counselor. He also states that there’s a perfectly good state school near his current job. I think I’m starting to see the problem here.

I can’t imagine that one could receive adequate training as a Christian counselor at a state school. The Catholic school is likely the best option for her. Now (and I’m assuming here- this may be completely unfair to the OP and if it is, I apologize) if he’s refusing to compromise by seeking out employment near the school of her choice, then he’s putting her in a very difficult position and I don’t blame her for her ambivalence. As for her intent to homeschool: she won’t be wasting her degree (if someone can indeed waste an education, which I don’t believe). She could easily see clients on evenings and weekends while the children (if there are indeed children) are young if she so chose, and she would be invaluable in parish volunteer work if she so chose. There is a great need for Christian counselors.

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t see the OP’s gf as asking for him to wait (she proposed that, but she isn’t forcing anything on him)–she is merely telling him of her desire to get her masters. It is his choice to wait …or not. If he feels this is the right person, he will wait. I don’t think that he should have to wait, if he truly wants to seek someone else, who might be a better fit with his desire for marriage sooner. I don’t see the OP’s gf as not wanting to get married to him–she just doesn’t want to put aside her desire to achieve a masters at this time in her life. She may change her mind, and drop out of the program–she may not. But, I don’t see her as asking the OP to put his ‘dreams’ on hold.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’d like to add to that too…that just my opinion, but I don’t think two people who are dating, even if it is serious dating, should have unreasonable expectations of one another. Expectations are for the engaged, and most certainly the married. Even when you’re engaged, you’re still not married yet. Bit, while dating, yes, we should most certainly have discussions of where things are heading, what’s the future looking like…do you want to get married…etc…but, we should never ask another to do something unreasonable, like give up a degree to get married soon. I don’t think that is a reasonable request or expectation when dating.

If two people are engaged, there are expectations that have started to arise, out of more serious discussions. Serious dating is not synonymous with engaged. Nor marriage. Just my two cents.

 

[GraceDK]

I can’t imagine that one could receive adequate training as a Christian counselor at a state school. The Catholic school is likely the best option for her. Now (and I’m assuming here- this may be completely unfair to the OP and if it is, I apologize) if he’s refusing to compromise by seeking out employment near the school of her choice, then he’s putting her in a very difficult position and I don’t blame her for her ambivalence. As for her intent to homeschool: she won’t be wasting her degree (if someone can indeed waste an education, which I don’t believe). She could easily see clients on evenings and weekends while the children (if there are indeed children) are young if she so chose, and she would be invaluable in parish volunteer work if she so chose. There is a great need for Christian counselors.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Had I been sitting around the house like a good little wife, waiting for someone that wasn’t coming, I would probably be on strong meds right now.

SeekerJen, I am very glad that you made the decision to go to school and that it helped you so much. It was definitely the right decision for you and your husband. But some women are stay at home wives, and it sounds a bit to me like you’re belittling their roles.

Education should come first marriage later, Why the rush if you love her you will wait…
Its only right to say im sure if it was the otherway round she would wait for you.
While shes getting educated you have a few years to find out more about eachother before taking the big plunge…

whiteknite,

I think society tells us that we should focus on our own lives and delay marriage as long as possible. I could not disagree more. Every dating couple I know to be very active in their faith lives has married as soon as they discerned that was God’s will for them. Some were in school. Some decided to finish, some did not, and I have one friend who left undergrad. They are all the happiest, healthiest couples I know.

I grew up with everyone, from my teachers to my parents telling me, “Chase your dreams.” No one ever told me, “Supporting a family and buying a home are expensive, and it is a good idea for you to find a career where you will have the resources – time, money, etc. – to help your family to thrive.”

This “reaching for the stars” attitude gained my husband a master’s degree in Medieval history. Sure, he loved the subject, but his dream did not translate to a career that would support a family. Now he is doing something else and wishing he had a degree that would apply to his current work. We do a disservice to young people by not telling them the truth that studies need to fit into their entire life plan and not saying that they should take more into consideration than what it is they most want to do.

 

[SeekerJen]

SeekerJen, I am very glad that you made the decision to go to school and that it helped you so much. It was definitely the right decision for you and your husband. But some women are stay at home wives, and it sounds a bit to me like you’re belittling their roles.

This was not my intent, and I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended by my statement. My mom stayed at home to raise me, and I am extremely grateful for that.

My intent was to respond to those who seemed to insinuate that yes, the woman in question was being selfish and that she should get married and have babies because her husband wanted to, rather than go to school first (or during). If she feels a strong calling to become a Christian counselor, then both of them need to sit down and determine if they have a future together. I also wanted to point out that not all women are able to have babies, and asking them to give up a much-desired career to wait for babies that may not come doesn’t seem like the wisest plan of action IMO. But again, that’s just my opinion.

 

[rebusrms]

The think what confuses me more than anything is this: Why the rush to get married? What is behind this strong desire. With the exception of a marital relationship in the bedroom you still have a relationship, one that is building and growing; if you stay put in a dating relationship. I don’t mean to be mean but it appears their is an alliterative motive to your desire to get married.

May the Blessed Mother pray for us all

 

[whatevergirl]

The think what confuses me more than anything is this: Why the rush to get married? What is behind this strong desire. With the exception of a marital relationship in the bedroom you still have a relationship, one that is building and growing; if you stay put in a dating relationship. I don’t mean to be mean but it appears their is an alliterative measure to your desire to get married.

May the Blessed Mother pray for us all

I wondered that too.

I thought about this thread a bit after posting, and wanted to add…so much of life, marriage, kids, isn’t planned. I think it’s necessary to plan for things in life, but so much of my marriage…when we were going to have kids, etc…was not planned, and we have had our ups and downs, but we are still together and happy. I wanted to add that, because I see so many people putting off marriage, or having kids, or buying a house, or whatever…because they are waiting for this magical time to make everything perfect for ‘x’ to happen. Life isn’t about guarantees…it’s often filled with unexpected twists and turns. I do think that the OP’s gf should get her degree if she wishes to do so before marriage–it’s her right to do so. It’s also the OP’s right to have his desires, dreams,and goals…hopefully, somewhere in the middle–you can both agree.

 

[whiteknite]

SeekerJen, I am very glad that you made the decision to go to school and that it helped you so much. It was definitely the right decision for you and your husband. But some women are stay at home wives, and it sounds a bit to me like you’re belittling their roles.

whiteknite,

I think society tells us that we should focus on our own lives and delay marriage as long as possible. I could not disagree more. Every dating couple I know to be very active in their faith lives has married as soon as they discerned that was God’s will for them. Some were in school. Some decided to finish, some did not, and I have one friend who left undergrad. They are all the happiest, healthiest couples I know.

I grew up with everyone, from my teachers to my parents telling me, “Chase your dreams.” No one ever told me, “Supporting a family and buying a home are expensive, and it is a good idea for you to find a career where you will have the resources – time, money, etc. – to help your family to thrive.”

This “reaching for the stars” attitude gained my husband a master’s degree in Medieval history. Sure, he loved the subject, but his dream did not translate to a career that would support a family. Now he is doing something else and wishing he had a degree that would apply to his current work. We do a disservice to young people by not telling them the truth that studies need to fit into their entire life plan and not saying that they should take more into consideration than what it is they most want to do.

Yes i totaly understand what your saying and your not wrong.
The guys girl says wait a little longer, If that isnt harming in anyway other than him wanting to hurry things along then he could hold out a little longer just to show there is equality in there relationship.

 

[Belgarion]

Yes i totaly understand what your saying and your not wrong.
The guys girl says wait a little longer, If that isnt harming in anyway other than him wanting to hurry things along then he could hold out a little longer just to show there is equality in there relationship.

Except what is being suggested isn’t total equality, its total sacrifice on his part, and none on hers.

If she was going to be the sole provider for the family, then I’d say ‘wait’. Perhaps I’d even recommend waiting if she was going to work as well.
But isn’t she wanting the Masters to be able to fall back on it after the kids are done being homeschooled?

Wanting to go to school, when you aren’t going to be requiring that education for MANY years, is not a legitimate reason to postpone a marriage.

I really dislike the idea that Love should take the back seat to the rest of life.

 

[hasikelee]

Except what is being suggested isn’t total equality, its total sacrifice on his part, and none on hers.

If she was going to be the sole provider for the family, then I’d say ‘wait’. Perhaps I’d even recommend waiting if she was going to work as well.
But isn’t she wanting the Masters to be able to fall back on it after the kids are done being homeschooled?

Wanting to go to school, when you aren’t going to be requiring that education for MANY years, is not a legitimate reason to postpone a marriage.

I really dislike the idea that Love should take the back seat to the rest of life.

Additionally, as the young girl is interested in Christian counseling, there appears to be no tangible reason for delaying marriage. I have heard of women delaying marriage or using NFP to delay children while they are in medical school due to the caustic chemicals in lab classes. That makes sense.

Why are school and marriage exclusive here?

 

[Belgarion]

Additionally, as the young girl is interested in Christian counseling, there appears to be no tangible reason for delaying marriage. I have heard of women delaying marriage or using NFP to delay children while they are in medical school due to the caustic chemicals in lab classes. That makes sense.

Why are school and marriage exclusive here?

Why can’t other people understand this?



You have a very good point.

My own mother went to medical school when I was a kid. She had to take care of me and my older sister (By 4 years!) while she attended medical school.
So childcare shouldn’t be an issuein this particular situation. Especially when the use for the degree is WELL down the road.

 

[hasikelee]

Why can’t other people understand this?



You have a very good point.

My own mother went to medical school when I was a kid. She had to take care of me and my older sister (By 4 years!) while she attended medical school.
So childcare shouldn’t be an issuein this particular situation. Especially when the use for the degree is WELL down the road.

And in some cases, with all the ducks in a row, childcare might not even be needed.

Especially with the way more and more schools are offering accelerated masters degrees in the evenings and on weekends, the couple could have children and plan their school around the children. I’ve even been to a few classes at school where the kids came along due to an understanding professor!

 

[Jofantioch]

I had a brain wave. :newidea:

So many of my friends have become doulas or midwives or lactation consultants after the births of their children. They are very family-oriented, love to learn, and love to teach. You both are in the process of discernment right now. Here’s what I see

• you both want a family
• you both want to have that family with one another
• she is passionate about health, both physical (nutrition), and mental (counseling)
• you love her and don’t want to stand in her way
• she loves you and wants to do your marriage justice
• you are both strong in your Catholic faith
• you would probably use NFP to space the births of your children

How am I doing?

If you two were an NFP coaching couple in your diocese, that might make sense. It is, however, just one of several scenarios that would give relief and freedom-through-love to both of you. Perhaps you are being called to the Deaconate and need a wife who is going to be trained as a proper help-mate for what your parish needs from you. Perhaps she’s going to found a new and exciting method of counseling or marriage preparation because of this turmoil you are going through right now.

The general theme here is that the two of you need to talk more to one another and to God. The discernment process is not over for either one of you. Be prepared to let her go. Maybe God is calling you to be a priest. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Belgarion]

And in some cases, with all the ducks in a row, childcare might not even be needed.

Especially with the way more and more schools are offering accelerated masters degrees in the evenings and on weekends, the couple could have children and plan their school around the children. I’ve even been to a few classes at school where the kids came along due to an understanding professor!

Problem solved!!
NEXT!

…joking…sorry…

anyways, I actually remember going to my mother’s medical school EVERY day!!
My sister would be off at her school and I was too young to go as well. So she took me every morning from Vallejo to San Francisco
If she could do that…it just makes our points more valid.

 

[HannahLisa]

The thing is, if we were talking in a man in the same situation as OP’s girlfriend…he might not want to postpone marriage. Men don’t get pregnant. Getting pregnant could throw a wrench in things for any woman who wanted to complete grad school.

I’m guessing there’s probably more to it than just that, in the OP’s situation, but it is something to think about in general.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

This was not my intent, and I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended by my statement. My mom stayed at home to raise me, and I am extremely grateful for that.

My intent was to respond to those who seemed to insinuate that yes, the woman in question was being selfish and that she should get married and have babies because her husband wanted to, rather than go to school first (or during). If she feels a strong calling to become a Christian counselor, then both of them need to sit down and determine if they have a future together. I also wanted to point out that not all women are able to have babies, and asking them to give up a much-desired career to wait for babies that may not come doesn’t seem like the wisest plan of action IMO. But again, that’s just my opinion.

No problem! Thanks for the clarification; I do appreciate it.