Am I Being Too Difficult?

[VirtusTransitus]

My wife has accused me of placing demands on her that she cannot live with. When asked to list these demands, the only one she can point to is my insistence that she watch her language around the daughters. My oldest is 14, middle is 8, and youngest is 4.

She can’t seem to tell me what the other impossible demands are, but insists that I’m smothering “who she is”. She’s said (multiple times) that she’s going to provide me with a list. Unless I’m missing something, this is really the only “demand” I make on her at all, much less in the unreasonable category.

Candidly, all I’ve asked her to do is not curse around the girls and not call them names. She has called each of them a “*****” in the last year at least once. It got bad enough, and my attempts to have her control it were futile enough, that I moved out of the house for a short period of time. I cannot have my daughters thinking that her behavior is acceptable, or that a good husband quietly lets his wife treat the family in this way.

Anyway, last night she called my 8 year old a “butt hole” loud enough for my 8 year old to hear, and my 4 year old was standing within arms reach of my wife as well.

When I attempted to intervene simply by calling out my wife’s name to sort of “snap her out of it”, she got angry with me and insisted that normal people are allowed to call their children “butt-holes” and that I was smothering her with impossible expectations. I get the idea of snapping and saying something you regret, but what continues to eat at me is her insistence that her behavior is OK and its my unrealistic demand on her behavior that is abnormal.

Is it unrealistic to expect my wife to refrain from dropping F-bombs and calling my kids names like “butt-hole” in anger? Am I being, in a way, scrupulous?

 

[PetiteFoi]

No I don’t think you’re being unreasonable.
I assume her swearing has become a habit that is hard to break and when she let’s one go, she’s probably embarrassed to be called on it.
Does she allow your children to swear around her? Can they call eachother names when they’re fighting?

If she has an issue with the kids swearing, then I’d think she’d come to the logical conclusion to lead by example.

Best of luck!

Peace,
~ PetiteFoi

 

[underacloud]

Is it unrealistic to expect my wife to refrain from dropping F-bombs and calling my kids names like “butt-hole” in anger? Am I being, in a way, scrupulous?

I don’t think this is unreasonable. Parents should not belittle their children in such a manner (well, any manner really).

Of course, we aren’t hearing her side of the story, but from the sounds of it you are right to insist that name-calling is flat out inappropriate.

Once a marriage gets to the points where spouses are asking the other to make lists of demands and such things, it think there may be large issues and counselling should be considered…before it degenerates further.

 

[JackieMom]

In my marriage, I’m the one who uses coarser language. It’s how I was raised. I’ve never called my kids something like that, but when I stub my toe on the coffee table - watch out!
Maybe not F bombs in front of the kids, but definitely stuff they shouldn’t hear. Once, my two year old dropped an entire bag of gummy bears down the stairs and I heard him shout, “damn it!” Oops. I hate when my husband corrects me about this. He’s usually right, of course, but I hate being called out! Especially because I’m usually already mad when he does it!

If I were you, I would not call your wife out in the moment of anger. Wait until she calms down, and the issue has passed. Then PRIVATELY address the issue. Say, “I don’t think we should call the kids things like butthole. I know she was being ornery, and believe me, I get that you’re frustrated, but we have to not name call in this family. Can we try to be accurate with our words? If she’s being selfish, say so. If she’s being rude, that’s fine to tell her. But we can’t use juvenile insults if we don’t want the kids to end up having dirty language. I’ll watch my mouth too.” This will be received much better than shouting at her to “snap her out of it” in the heat of the moment.

I also suggest intervening before your wife gets so frustrated with the kids that she resorts to the old habits. If one of your girls is being rude, disobedient or disrespectful to your wife - jump in and say, “You will NOT talk to your mother that way” or “I will NOT allow you to disrespect my wife in our home.” Your wife will appreciate the backup and support, and if you intervene you’ll help her to avoid losing her temper (and running her mouth!)

 

[VirtusTransitus]

Once a marriage gets to the points where spouses are asking the other to make lists of demands and such things, it think there may be large issues and counselling should be considered…before it degenerates further.

Yes. Agreed, and we have been in counseling on and off since the first 5 years (married 22) and are in active counseling now. The problem is, she uses the communication tactics of counseling to run circles around me (the non-confrontation guy). Anyway, you’re right - we need to be, and we are, in counseling.

I’m just honestly trying to figure out if I’m being a prude by not being comfortable with a 14 year old watching SNL, or an 8 year old hearing non-stop F-bombs and being called a butt-hole.

She basically says I’m too uptight. I basically think she’s being incredibly immature.

 

[Christy_Beth]

I guess it comes down to what starts it. Some of it may be “mere” habit. I know I used to cuss a lot, and if I’m not careful it can still sneak out sometimes. I think it’s time you sit down with her without the kids being present and have a heart to heart talk with her. Not to judge each other, but to try to “get on the same page.” If she insists that you are being unreasonable, hold her down to why and what. If she can’t, then insist she stop saying this. One questions begs to be asked here. Was she like this before you married her?

 

[Edward_H]

No, you’re,not being unreasonable.

One idea is to mention to your wife that “we have to raise the tone of conversation a bit…children need to know that the home is a place of peace and security, with a bit of refinement…b-hole isn’t refined…our children are children of God…like you and me…lets treat them like that and talk with them like that…”

 

[lizaanne]

Is her family like this? Do they call each other names (even jokingly) or participate in coarse activity like tacky jokes or watching questionable television?

The reason I ask, is because if this is how she was raised, then you may have a harder time “deprogramming” that out of her. If it’s what she’s always known, how would she ever know or think it’s unacceptable – which it ABSOLUTELY is?

I agree with the above - I really think if you have left the home once already, and she’s making lists, you both have some serious issues to deal with that run far deeper than just her calling names. Please consider counseling for the entire family, including the children. They need to be able to cope with parents who are having marital issues, and you two need to learn how to live together and parent together.

~Liza

 

[VirtusTransitus]

Is her family like this? Do they call each other names (even jokingly) or participate in coarse activity like tacky jokes or watching questionable television?

Yes - her family is very culturally Liberal - lots of foul language and a high tolerance for adult-themes at young ages. We’ve discussed this. She views her upbringing as normal (and our current culture in the US certainly doesn’t do anything to disprove her, does it?). She views mine as sheltered because I have never heard my mother say the F-word and only heard my Dad say it a few times, and only after I was an adult.

I’d like to add - I’m no angel. Although I’ve never cursed around the kids or called them names to their faces, I have in the past been free with foul language around adults. And I have said one of the kids were acting “btchy" when it was just her and I and nobody else could hear. I have cleaned all that up over the last year or so. But I’m not asking her to not curse when the kids aren’t around. Nor am I asking her to never describe their behavior in adult terms (like "btchy”). Lets face it. I have a teenage daughter. By definition, she’s going to act “b*tchy” in the next few years as she figures herself out. I just don’t want my wife calling her (or the kids) that name in front of them.

 

[VirtusTransitus]

N…our children are children of God…like you and me…lets treat them like that and talk with them like that…"

At the root of our issues is the fact that she’s basically an athiest, so this line of reasoning, while well-intentioned, is off the table. She considers us all children of happenstance, I guess.

 

[Edward_H]

At the root of our issues is the fact that she’s basically an athiest, so this line of reasoning, while well-intentioned, is off the table. She considers us all children of happenstance, I guess.

Ok…got it.

Well maybe you can make a slower, more indirect appeal on the nature of discourse in society…what’s happened to courtesy in restaurants, how people leave their table in such an utter mess at a restaurant, how quick we complain about the slightest thing…maybe you can find a safe middle ground in the area of general civility, outside of the family…build a quiet set of points and agreement there…and then over the months…bring it back home.

 

[underacloud]

I’d certainly focus more on the name-calling than the swearing.

Given her upbringing, it may be very hard for her to stop swearing, even if she wanted to. I wouldn’t let her off the hook as such, but just choose your fights carefully. Not to mention that they’re hearing this language in school etc anyway. They shouldn’t have it normalised in home, but all kids begin to understand that swearing is a style of communication that some people choose to use.

Name-calling, though, is a fight worth choosing. Any decent psychologist or family counsellor will back you up that name-calling your children is potentially damaging and creates antagonistic family relationships. It is quite simply inappropriate, regardless of the parents own upbringing. But as JackieMom said, address this in private.

 

[Viki63]

You are absolutely not being unreasonable.
It is very well known that children live up to their parent’s expectations. So if you want to raise bitchy children, call them that.
If you want to raise polite, respectful children, refer to them that way.
Maybe that argument will succeed with your wife. Ask her how well she would do at work if her boss referred to her in denigrating terms.

 

[nodito]

I would be disgusted and appalled if I heard a parent call his or her child a name like that.

 

[mommy_k]

People are judged by their language. Using curse words tells most that the oerson is uneducated, uncouth, and generally shunned in certain social circles.

Does your wife want your children to be parotting these words?
Think of the show ‘honey boo boo’’ and jerry springer.

There are ways to correct children using proper english. My children would not associate with potty mouth children, as they would copy this language.

This is not a judgement, just reality. As a parent your wife should model excellent behavior and language is part of that. If your children make a habit of using curse words, it will hinder them now, and later in life.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Yes. Agreed, and we have been in counseling on and off since the first 5 years (married 22) and are in active counseling now. The problem is, she uses the communication tactics of counseling to run circles around me (the non-confrontation guy). Anyway, you’re right - we need to be, and we are, in counseling.

I’m just honestly trying to figure out if I’m being a prude by not being comfortable with a 14 year old watching SNL, or an 8 year old hearing non-stop F-bombs and being called a butt-hole.

She basically says I’m too uptight. I basically think she’s being incredibly immature.

No, you’re not being a prude. From what you’ve described she, like many others in this culture, has been fed a steady diet of the crude and crass. Also it has become common for women to use language that would make a drunken sailor blush. I admit I give into the temptation to use unladylike language myself. uch: It was a bad habit I acquired rather than my upbringing and one I’m working on breaking.

It sounds like your wife isn’t very motivated, doesn’t see a need for, working on breaking this habit. It also sounds like she has you afraid of crossing her - like using what she’s learned in counseling to become a weapon against you. And you should not leave your daughters if she is picking on them or otherwise making their lives unpleasant - that’s when you should stick around so your daughters know Dad won’t desert them in time of need. Okay? Trust me, this is important as they move into teenhood so they won’t end up putting up with bad treatment from the guys they’ll be dating.

I like Edward H’s suggestion, since the religious angle is harder to come at it from in your situation. And as JackieMom says, wait till a calm moment to bring the matter up. There is actually a book called Cuss Control which I read and it might be helpful for you guys. It’s from a more secular than religious viewpoint, too, which I found lacking but which might just fit the bill for you.

 

[detoutcoeur]

My wife has accused me of placing demands on her that she cannot live with. When asked to list these demands, the only one she can point to is my insistence that she watch her language around the daughters. My oldest is 14, middle is 8, and youngest is 4…

Is it unrealistic to expect my wife to refrain from dropping F-bombs and calling my kids names like “butt-hole” in anger? Am I being, in a way, scrupulous?

Any chance that your wife could be doing all this to try to get your attention for some reason?

 

[minkymurph]

My wife has accused me of placing demands on her that she cannot live with. When asked to list these demands, the only one she can point to is my insistence that she watch her language around the daughters. My oldest is 14, middle is 8, and youngest is 4.

I cannot have my daughters thinking that her behavior is acceptable, or that a good husband quietly lets his wife treat the family in this way.

Is it unrealistic to expect my wife to refrain from dropping F-bombs and calling my kids names like “butt-hole” in anger? Am I being, in a way, scrupulous?

Your not being unreasonable. I don’t know many people would think it reasonable to talk to children this way - unless they have no objection to their children talking to them the same way.

Imagine if she spoke to other people’s children this way?

However, the reality is if someone is determined to behave inappropriately and has no desire to change, it is unlikely they will. I once heard someone say if someone else is behaving inappropriately and your appeals to them fall on deaf ears, the best thing you can do in that situation is manage yourself.

Perhaps you could consider a different strategy if the one you are using at the moment does not appear to be working. If your wife perceives the way you manage the situation as ‘nagging,’ it may make her more determined not to change. I am not defending your wife’s behavior, but the way we manage situations can add fuel to the fire and correcting does not appear to be having the desired effect, which is what you want.

What I am suggesting is in order to achieve the desired result you may consider a different strategy. You have made your feelings clear to your wife and your children. As such, your wife and children know you do not consider this behavior acceptable and laboring the point may prove counter-productive. Have you tried ignoring it when it happens? I appreciate it is very difficult to stand by and watch your children being hurt and your first instinct is protect them. I didn’t like the way my husband spoke to my kids at times and I felt I had to jump in, but it just seemed to make things worse. He felt I was always criticizing him and was always on his back, irrespective of the fact I had a point. As such, others on the forums advised me to try different strategies and things are a lot better now.
I realized my way of dealing with it was just perceived as nagging and being critical, even though I had a point.

Ignoring inappropriate behavior does not constitute standing idly by, and it is not a sign you endorse the behavior. It’s abut dealing with inappropriate behavior in a way that have greater chance of success in terms of producing the desired result. Sometimes ignoring bad behavior can be the best way to deal with it because the person concerned gets no attention and no reaction. It’s possible your wife is doing this not because she thinks it’s acceptable, but simply because she is being told not to. She may also feel your undermining her or putting her down by ‘telling her off’ in front of the kids. I’m not saying she would be right to think that, but there are occasions when a person knows they are wrong but still don’t like being told. In which case, they are unlikely to respond positively.

Challenging inappropriate behavior at the time it happens and every time it happens is not always the best strategy. I don’t know what would work in your relationship, you know your wife better than I, but I have some suggestions you could try and see what does work. Perhaps you could speak to your wife about the effect it is having on them and on their relationship with her in a less contentious setting when its not the immediate issue. You could try intervening in a different way, such as saying to the kids, ‘mom doesn’t mean that, she doesn’t really think you are a butt-head.’ You could try sarcasm or teasing. It depends on you and your wife’s personalities and sense of humor whether this would work. It worked in my relationship because we both like ‘acid wit’ and share the same sick sense of humor, but I appreciate it may not work for everyone. When she says, ‘butt-head’ you could say, ‘That’s a popular word today.’ Or, ‘Feeling under pressure dear? Perhaps you need a holiday.’ Say no more and don’t respond to anything she says. Maybe you could also try a hypothetical swear box even if you only treat it as joke? Every time she swears or calls the kids names they keep a record, and at the end of the week they tell her how much money she would owe them in ‘fines?’

Last but not least - be realistic. Don’t give up but don’t expect things to change overnight. Good luck.:shamrock2:

 

[3DOCTORS]

minkymurph may have a point here - in today’s “shock” culture, the idea of “pushing the envelope” and being provocative may be part of what drives your wife’s behavior. It might just take some of the wind out of her sails to not respond. This would be tricky though if she escalates and starts being really raunchy or downright verbally abusive. That would be a sign this is not the proper approach. But you know how kids cuss to see if they get a rise out of Mom and Dad - maybe that’s what your wife is doing.

Don’t know if you could get her on board with this but some families have a penalty box for bad language - young kids have to put in, say, a quarter - older kids and adults a dollar or even five dollars, for each bad word said. Then the money would be donated to a charity. (Not a family fun event - it mustn’t be a reward for cussing! )

 

[Chantal25]

You are doing the right thing, i don’t judge your wife because i truly think she doesn’t realize the impact on word toward any one. Google “dr. Emoto”. He has conducted many research with water and he has proven over and over, that word affect greatly. This is scientific evidence.

I will say a few words to you. Saint Joseph feast is March 19, start a Novena with him March 11.

Here is what you need to do. Pray the Rosay and meditate on the mystery. This simple prayer change my family and brought so so much peace.

As a woman, i can share with you that this is a very sensitive cord to be told how to raise our children. Speaking for me, any emotional hurt, are remembered for ever, lol…but, i have no problem to listen, take and leave because my child come first. Your wife love her children and she will do the right thing for them if she is convinced this is wrong. Anyway, don’t give up hope and pray. Pray God to bless you and for the Holy Spirit to speak through you. Something in me, tell me that she will hear this message again in a different way and she will get it (tv, friends or family member).