Am I being too hard on my husband?

[pianistclare]

What do you mean it appears I have made up my mind? I came to this forum for help. I didn’t come to this forum to get bashed.

I’m not bashing you. Simply making an observation. You have not responded to anything without continuing to talk about how you are angry and he’s a big sinner.
Got it.
People are suggesting that you get help for your anger, and focus less on “curing” him since he has said repeatedly that he will change the horrible behavior and he allows you to bring it up over and over again from his guilt. You have not said what you are going to do to work on the dynamic you have going.

I was married to a very abusive man for 24 years (he finally passed away from his own hand).
Relishing being the victim won’t get you any relief dear. It won’t. Only healing, and that only comes from forgiveness.
You have not said that are willing to forgive him.
So, I assume, that you don’t want to or do not intend to.
We only know what you write.
Clarify if you wish, but don’t accuse me of bashing you because I appear to disagree with you.

 

[estesbob]

I am tying hard to stay objective and think things through. I am trying hard to do what God wants me to do.

I believe my husband is a good person. He just lost his way and made very bad choices. I believe he loves me. I believe he regrets the sinful choices he has made.

So then what is the problem? Why is it necessary for him to confess you?

 

[Eliza10]

Oh, there is more… I forgot to mention:

He …I also caught him…

I am at a loss. I don’t know what to do. I just cry all the time and am so deeply hurt. I don’t know what he was thinking. He ruined our marriage and betrayed my trust. How does one get past this?

I don’t think I am strong enough. I question his love for me. I question if I am enough for him. I question our marriage. I am going though so much pain and it has lasted for 3 years. I am beginning to think it will never go away. I will never forget or forgive him. Maybe the best thing for me to do is divorce him?

I need advice. My counselor told me not to dwell on the past. Just think about the present. She tells me if he treats me good now and has stopped doing those things, I should forgive and work things out. It is so hard. The hardest thing I ever had to do.

Help.

Wow. How can you ever trust him? He is lying now, what else will he lie about? Your counselor - that just does not sound right. You have to make some sense of the past. It is better to not trust him (since he cannot be trusted) and not forget the past - but forgive it. And live praying for a man you cannot trust… I am not sure how that would work in real life vs. theory, but I know that “forgetting about it” and “living in the present” does not seem like an honest solution. Gregory Popcaks counseling is truly Catholic and you can do it over the phone. If this counselor is not helping, give it up and try something better.

 

[Eliza10]

Now knowing something like this, I can imagine it would be difficult, if not impossible, to move on from. I don’t think I would ever be able to. It’s shocking what some women will allow to be done to them. Unbelievable. It sounds as though you have it in your heart that you want things to work out. You have the thoughts and prayers of everyone who has read your thread. I hope you will soon come to a solution, one way or another, that will give you rest.

Me, too. I would say that this major betrayal would be evidence that this is not the man I thought I married, not what I agreed to when I made my vows. When it happened from the beginning - I woudl say this is grounds for annulment. However, you cannot get an annulment without a divorce. I think Popcak’s counseling, begin truly Catholic, would help her grapple with that one.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

My daughters are 20 and 16 and they are not stupid. They have heard us argue. My husband has left multiple times and stayed at various hotels for days without even answering my phone calls. My husband didn’t even spend Christmas with us last year! My daughters see the pain I am in. I have lost 30 pounds. I lost some of my hair. I have suffered major Depression and PTSD from my husband’s sinful behaviors. Of course I don’t “discuss” my problems about my husband with my daughters, but they know we are having problems. They’d have their heads in the sand if they didn’t know anything was wrong.

I resent the comment that I am not being a good mother and I am dragging my daughters into my marriage problems!

I think you should get your own issues under control before making a decision or trying to change your husband to your liking. There are some serious red flags in your posts.

Perhaps divorce would be the best option for your husband and children. But we will not know that until you can sort things out with a professional.

 

[Eliza10]

I am trying to be fair and forgiving. I think Jesus would want me to forgive. Would he want me to stay married?.

Jesus requires repentance. Your husband is not repenting if he is lying. As to staying married, that is a question to stay with, and seek help and wisdom in deciding. God tells us if anyone seeks wisdom He will give it to us in great measure. So stick with that, and keep asking and listening for God’s will… Pray for yourself to be open to hearing and doing God’s will. Don’t make a move till its clear to you, and until you have the peace of God about it, even in the midst of the storm.

…

It really has shocked me. I never thought he was that type of person. I think his friends encouraged him. He doesn’t hang around those people anymore. I would describe his friends as “perverts”. .

Um - that’s his choice. Do you have perverted friends?

I am not perfect. I am struggling. I sin too. But I have always been faithful to him. I really wish God could tell me what I should do. If God told me, forgive, forget and stay in the marriage I would.

I have been in your shoes as far as being at a heart-wrenching crossroads, and wishing, wishing God would just tell me what to do - then I would just do it! My husband of nearly 20 years I had just discovered was in an affair and was secretly planning to surprise me with divorce papers and try to legally have me declared crazy so he could take our child to live with that woman in another state… I learned it all from his own written word so there was no question about the facts. I found a local lawyer willing to help me sue back for “no divorce” since that’s what God would want - wasn’t it? But I had a fear growing in me, my ex was such a good liar, a story-inventor, and he believed his own lies as he made them up and convinced others - what if he won in court? So, I spend big money on a consultation with a lawyer with an excellent reputation. When I told him my story and my plan, he told me quite firmly I should divorce him back. Me, divorce?! But yes, he argued I could lose my child, otherwise, as, even if I won the “no divorce”, my ex could still get one after a certain time period if he separated (a year?) and then by then, said the lawyer, the judge might judge me a bit crazy and I could risk losing my child.

Now I was conflicted. I went to consult with my priest, who was known to be very orthodox, very pious, and “too strict” by the standards of many. Stalwart and faithful, as I see him. I knew he would not advise me in any way that was not Catholic. I told him my dilemma as I just told above. And then I told him just what you are saying right now: “I *wish God would just tell me what to do! *Because then I would do it!”

He said that God only does that sometimes, but most of the time, ordinarily, He gives us what we need to make the right decision, He gave us minds, he wants us to use them. I wish I could remember his exact wording! We have the teaching of the Church, we have scripture and the catechism, and we have minds to know what is wise and right, and we need to exercise them, and of course, our consciences, which should be formed, and we should listen to them. He said it sounded like this lawyer was giving me wise advice. He also commented that this other woman was doing me a favor (it was a long and difficult marriage) and that I could not make a silk purse out of a sows ear (which perfectly summed up in few words exactly how I had been exhaustingly living my married life all those years!).

So, Clearwater, I recommend that you find some wise advise - and personally, I am not seeing you getting it from that counselor. I know Gregory Popcap (and I am sure anyone else on his team at Pastoral Solutions) would give you wise advice, and address your feelings and concerns, not just telling you to put them behind you, and they will put the situation in a Catholic perspective. Then (or you could do it before), do find out what priest in your area has a reputation of being really wise. Can you do that? I can give you some suggestion for how to find him. He is out there, in your diocese, somewhere!

---

P.S. editing to add, after reading some of the posts at the end here, I am reminded that living in a crazy-making situation can make you crazy! Then you get blamed for being the crazy, not the crazymaker - who, instead, has no conscience, and is unbothered by his sins, and actually appears to the world to be the normal one (he thinks he is, after all), in contrast to you! I think that is what my lawyer was thinking when he said I could lose my child if I waited a year. People judge. They see you upset, and they judge that you are just some crazy upset hormonal-woman, not that you are having a normal reaction to a crazy situation!

P.P.S. Also editing to add, after reading posts here, that I reject the notion that you must contribute to a dynamic in your marraige that fuels this! Well, if a wise counselor says that, you can listen to him, but I doubt it! Sounds like your husband started the marriage that way. He chooses perverted friends who cheat on their wives. It sounds like it HIS problem! And your searching to find the truth when he won’t give it to you is WISE! The truth sets you free!

P.P.P.S Ug - still reading posts. Dear Clearwater, I don’t see that you are relishing being a victim! At all! That was* not* a psychologist making that** harsh judgment** of you here. Only believe that if it comes from a real counselor that you trust, and your conscience confirms it! (But I’m not seeing it!)

 

[pianistclare]

Jesus requires repentance. Your husband is not repenting if he is lying. As to staying married, that is a question to stay with, and seek help and wisdom in deciding. God tells us if anyone seeks wisdom He will give it to us in great measure. So stick with that, and keep asking and listening for God’s will… Pray for yourself to be open to hearing and doing God’s will. Don’t make a move till its clear to you, and until you have the peace of God about it, even in the midst of the storm.

… Um - that’s his choice. Do you have perverted friends?

I have been in your shoes as far as being at a heart-wrenching crossroads, and wishing, wishing God would just tell me what to do - then I would just do it! My husband of nearly 20 years I had just discovered was in an affair and was secretly planning to surprise me with divorce papers and try to legally have me declared crazy so he could take our child to live with that woman in another state… I learned it all from his own written word so there was no question about the facts. I found a local lawyer willing to help me sue back for “no divorce” since that’s what God would want - wasn’t it? But I had a fear growing in me, my ex was such a good liar, a story-inventor, and he believed his own lies as he made them up and convinced others - what if he won in court? So, I spend big money on a consultation with a lawyer with an excellent reputation. When I told him my story and my plan, he told me quite firmly I should divorce him back. Me, divorce?! But yes, he argued I could lose my child, otherwise, as, even if I won the “no divorce”, my ex could still get one after a certain time period if he separated (a year?) and then by then, said the lawyer, the judge might judge me a bit crazy and I could risk losing my child.

Now I was conflicted. I went to consult with my priest, who was known to be very orthodox, very pious, and “too strict” by the standards of many. Stalwart and faithful, as I see him. I knew he would not advise me in any way that was not Catholic. I told him my dilemma as I just told above. And then I told him just what you are saying right now: “I *wish God would just tell me what to do! *Because then I would do it!”

He said that God only does that sometimes, but most of the time, ordinarily, He gives us what we need to make the right decision, He gave us minds, he wants us to use them. I wish I could remember his exact wording! We have the teaching of the Church, we have scripture and the catechism, and we have minds to know what is wise and right, and we need to exercise them, and of course, our consciences, which should be formed, and we should listen to them. He said it sounded like this lawyer was giving me wise advice. He also commented that this other woman was doing me a favor (it was a long and difficult marriage) and that I could not make a silk purse out of a sows ear (which perfectly summed up in few words exactly how I had been exhaustingly living my married life all those years!).

So, Clearwater, I recommend that you find some wise advise - and personally, I am not seeing you getting it from that counselor. I know Gregory Popcap (and I am sure anyone else on his team at Pastoral Solutions) would give you wise advice, and address your feelings and concerns, not just telling you to put them behind you, and they will put the situation in a Catholic perspective. Then (or you could do it before), do find out what priest in your area has a reputation of being really wise. Can you do that? I can give you some suggestion for how to find him. He is out there, in your diocese, somewhere!

---

editing to add, after reading some of the posts at the end here, I am reminded that living in a crazy-making situation can make you crazy! Then you get blamed for being the crazy, not the crazymaker - who, instead, has no conscience, and is unbothered by his sins, and actually appears to the world to be the normal one (he thinks he is, after all), in contrast to you! I think that is what my lawyer was thinking when he said I could lose my child if I waited a year. People judge. They see you upset, and they judge that you are just some crazy upset hormonal-woman, not that you are having a normal reaction to a crazy situation!

Also editing to add, after reading posts here, that I reject the notion that you must contribute to a dynamic in your marraige that fuels this! Well, if a wise counselor says that, you can listen to him, but I doubt it! Sounds like your husband started the marriage that way. He chooses perverted friends who cheat on their wives. It sounds like it HIS problem! And your searching to find the truth when he won’t give it to you is WISE! The truth sets you free!

Wow. Do you personally know that he is still lying? You yourself have made some pretty big assumptions.

“Sounds like…” is not proof. It’s your opinion. Asking the OP to continue in her wrathful anger is not helpful.
Forgiveness is the first option always.
The healing come after this.

 

[Eliza10]

pianistclare:
Wow. Do you personally know that he is still lying? You yourself have made some pretty big assumptions.

“Sounds like…” is not proof. It’s your opinion. Asking the OP to continue in her wrathful anger is not helpful.
Forgiveness is the first option always.
The healing come after this.

She said that she knows her husband went to strip clubs many more times than he will admit. He says he went less. That’s lying. That’s not repenting.

 

[pianistclare]

She said that she knows her husband went to strip clubs many more times than he will admit. He says he went less. That’s lying. That’s not repenting.

“went” = past

“goes” = present.

Repenting means “no longer engaging those activities”.
Having sorrow, trying to make amends.

Hopefully the good Lord has more mercy than people have.
One will never change if met with condemnation 24-7.
That’s all some of us are saying.
Why are you so anxious for her to just dump him and get it over with? How will that help her situation? If she does, she will likely stroke those wounds forever. How that that bring to her to a place of peace?

If sinners need the Sacrament of Reconciliation, don’t you suppose that the two of them need also to reconcile?
I don’t recall any priest telling a sinner to “get the heck out of dodge, you’re a lost cause.”

 

[mdleagedguy]

Clearwater, the thing you must understand is that you and your husband are under attack by Satan. Sin is a spiritual problem, and it is not amenable to legal or social solutions. I would advise prayer in front of the blessed sacrament and forgiving your husband. Forgiveness is an act of the will, not the emotions. You can forgive and still be angry. The healing will take time, maybe years. But the forgiveness is now. Tell him you forgive him for his adultery of the heart and for his lying about it. Once that is done, then you can decide with the help of a professional counselor or a priest what you need to do to move forward. Pray for your husband even if you don’t feel like it. Satan is using him to attack you. Prayer for your husband blunts the weapon being used against you. It won’t be easy. It will be hard. But it is necessary. The Bible says so. You might still be angry, and that’s okay. It’s like dealing with cancer. Chemotherapy is not easy but it’s necessary. Think of prayer and forgiveness as chemotherapy for your soul. It might be a long hard road, but it’s the destination that matters. God bless!

 

[CthgeDelendaEst]

I have been in your shoes as far as being at a heart-wrenching crossroads, and wishing, wishing God would just tell me what to do - then I would just do it! My husband of nearly 20 years I had just discovered was in an affair and was secretly planning to surprise me with divorce papers and try to legally have me declared crazy so he could take our child to live with that woman in another state…

With respect, you are projecting your personal nightmare on to the OP’s situation. Based on the available information, they are nothing, and I mean nothing alike. OP’s husband is not having an affair. He is not planning on surprising her with divorce papers - indeed, he is putting up with a lot to try and save his marriage. He is not trying to get OP declared insane. My sympathy for your hardships, but they are not relevant here.

 

[PolarGuy]

Perhaps we can circle the wagons a bit back to the start.

OP, your original question was whether you were being too hard on your husband. I said early on that I though the answer was yes. I still think so. I think many others would agree with me, but they can speak for themselves.

There are a lot of red flags from your posts which are causing many on this thread - including pianistclare, 1ke, and others who I think are giving sound advice - to question how you are handling this and/or to suggest that perhaps you are fueling the situation. You’ve said in response that you don’t want to be bashed. I don’t think anyone bashed you. I think what I just said: people are suggesting that you could handle this better, to the point of saying that you are fueling this by demanding a confession.

I must say, and I will say it with as much respect as I can: is there really anything to be gained by demanding the truth so much now? I don’t think so:

1. I question if you’ve already received it! What you describe as chronic lies seem to be “maybe he went twice but I say he must have gone 3 times!”
2. It is never fair to ask a question where literally any answer given is wrong. That’s what I see you doing. Unless your husband confesses, he’s lying and you can’t handle the (alleged) lies. If he confesses, it’s adultery and you can’t handle that either. So what exactly would you like to occur? So, I think continued demands are counterproductive.

That’s not bashing you - it’s called us being objective. I’d add that the more you post, the more I’d be curious abou your husbands side of the story. However, I think pianist is right (I find she’s right about lots of stuff!) that you came here looking more for support than objectivity. I gave objectivity: you’re being too hard on him, in part because nothing he does will be right. Going to strip clubs is wrong but nothing you are doing is making the situation any better IMHO; it’s only making it worse on everyone. Stop hating on him; try to turn the page; forgive him. Beyond that, I can’t help.

 

[petitfleur]

The bad news about forgiveness is it is not the same as reconciliation. Forgiveness is done by one person reconciliation by both. If you keep bringing something up over and over again you have not forgiven the person. The scariest to me is the Lord’s Prayer " forgive us our sins AS we forgive others"
You cannot change your husband but focus on making yourself the best person you can. I really want to encourage you to seek professional help.

 

[Abundant]

Have you heard of the term co-dependency? When you are married to someone with an addiction, and YOUR behavior changes as a result, you are co-dependent. For instance, if you are married to a compulsive gambler and you check the bank account 3 times a day for withdrawals, or if you are married to an alcoholic and you drive by the bar on the way home to make sure he/she isn’t there. You are demonstrating co-dependent behaviors.

From what you’ve said, it doesn’t sound like your husband has an addiction. It does however sound like he is immature. He goes along with the group and he lies about the extent of his behavior. If I were you, I would demand honesty. You cannot deal with a problem until it is all laid out on the table. You don’t have to leave him, and you can forgive him, but he must be willing to do some of the work too. It sounds like he needs to grow up, and you need to stop letting HIS problem dictate YOUR actions.

 

[petitfleur]

About the phone calls that were put on “Speaker”… Yes, I agree that this wasn’t the best approach. However, when someone lies to you and changes stories over and over again. I felt I had no other choice. I wanted to know what happened. I deserved to know what happened. I deserve to be treated fairly and with respect.

I think your pain is real and justified, however, and not making excuses for your husband, people lie because they are afraid of others reaction. You seem like you are a very angry person, and perhaps emotionally fragile. I am not proud of this but have been in an unhealthy situation with someone who had frightening angry over emotional reactions, and I did and still would lie and lie over and over again to avoid those terrifying reactions. I may be wrong and immoral but it was and still is self preservation.

  I also don't think real forgivness requires conditions. It sounds like if there was more to tell it might harm you more. There might be a good reason, and so much of this gives me a dull sick feeling in my stomach.

I do genuinely hope you find peace. It seems to me you either get help and get past this, or live a life bitter with resentment. I cannot see how your anger cannot bleed into other areas of your life and relationships.

 

[Eliza10]

…
Why are you so anxious for her to just dump him and get it over with?..
I don’t recall any priest telling a sinner to “get the heck out of dodge, you’re a lost cause.”

Please read my post. Nowhere did I ever suggest she dump him. Ridiculous
Always read posts thoroughly before you respond to them.

Wow. Do you personally know that he is still lying? You yourself have made some pretty big assumptions.

“Sounds like…” is not proof. It’s your opinion. Asking the OP to continue in her wrathful anger is not helpful.
Forgiveness is the first option always.
The healing come after this.

Re: lying, see her post #27.

Also I am sure this poster knows about forgiveness, and wants to. We are quick to tell everyone else to forgive when we are not personally involved. But if yo ever suffer a deep betrayal you will come to know that forgiveness is a process. One has to acknowledge the wrong, not “forget it”, to truly forgive it! Those of us who suffer deep betrayals learn that for some things we don’t have it in us, the grace fo God is required. And we cannot take credit for it, only glorify God for it.

And Clearwater14, remember that. Things are bad now, but “better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof.” God makes all things work together for the good - even this. I am grateful for my trials I only briefly alluded to above. I would take them all again if I had a choice how my life went instead, because the pain brought me closer to God. I am afraid if things had gone well or even just “normally-bad” in my marraige, I would not know and trust Him as I do today, and that truly is a pearl of great price.

CthgeDelendaEst:

With respect, you are projecting your personal nightmare on to the OP’s situation. Based on the available information, they are nothing, and I mean nothing alike. OP’s husband is not having an affair. He is not planning on surprising her with divorce papers - indeed, he is putting up with a lot to try and save his marriage. He is not trying to get OP declared insane. My sympathy for your hardships, but they are not relevant here.

Please read my post before you make a harsh judgments of me and my motives. It will prevent you from making far-fetched conclusions about the writer’s intents. Let me show you what you missed:

I preceeded my story with this:

"I have been in your shoes as far as being at a heart-wrenching crossroads, and wishing, wishing God would just tell me what to do - then I would just do it! …"

Keep reading, and you will see the relevance. I asked a holy priest that same question, and *he answered it! * The answer to Clearwater14’s very same heart-wrenching question!

That’s why I told it. It was clearly not a call for sympathy, neither post-scripted, nor even sincere. And certainly not to “project my personal nightmare” as you so crassly put it.

Please, read carefully. And if you cannot read with comprehension, then say nothing. Better to say nothing than to pronounce rash judgments!

---

More comments to follow, but note to readers of this thread who may not have noticed: There are two “Clearwaters” posting in this thread. “Clearwater14” is the original poster!

Here in this Clearwater14 is being told that she is at fault, may have contributed to her husbands desire to go to strip bars, has issues she needs to work out, and that she is playing the victim. I just want to point out to people that this “victim” has expressed desire to be a “victim” of God’s will - she wants to do whatever He tells her!

Clearwater14, this is what happens when you are in a messy situation. People don’t like your mess - messes are messy - and they dismissively move away from the ickiness by making a quick assuming judgment that “both must be at fault”. They compare themselves to you and realize *they *don’t have such a messy mess, so *you must be doing something wrong. Its rubbing salt into the wound, isn’t it? But remember that Our Lady who was faultless *and living entirely in God’s will suffered judgement when she showed up pregnant. She knows!

 

[pianistclare]

Please read my post. Nowhere did I ever suggest she dump him. Ridiculous
Always read posts thoroughly before you respond to them.

Re: lying, see her post #27.

Also I am sure this poster knows about forgiveness, and wants to. We are quick to tell everyone else to forgive when we are not personally involved. But if yo ever suffer a deep betrayal you will come to know that forgiveness is a process. One has to acknowledge the wrong, not “forget it”, to truly forgive it! Those of us who suffer deep betrayals learn that for some things we don’t have it in us, the grace fo God is required. And we cannot take credit for it, only glorify God for it.

And Clearwater14, remember that. Things are bad now, but “better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof.” God makes all things work together for the good - even this. I am grateful for my trials I only briefly alluded to above. I would take them all again if I had a choice how my life went instead, because the pain brought me closer to God. I am afraid if things had gone well or even just “normally-bad” in my marraige, I would not know and trust Him as I do today, and that truly is a pearl of great price.

Please read my post before you make a harsh judgments of me and my motives. It will prevent you from making far-fetched conclusions about the writer’s intents. Let me show you what you missed:

I preceeded my story with this:

"I have been in your shoes as far as being at a heart-wrenching crossroads, and wishing, wishing God would just tell me what to do - then I would just do it! …"

Keep reading, and you will see the relevance. I asked a holy priest that same question, and *he answered it! * The answer to Clearwater14’s very same heart-wrenching question!

That’s why I told it. It was clearly not a call for sympathy, neither post-scripted, nor even sincere. And certainly not to “project my personal nightmare” as you so crassly put it.

Please, read carefully. And if you cannot read with comprehension, then say nothing. Better to say nothing than to pronounce rash judgments!

---

More comments to follow, but note to readers of this thread who may not have noticed: There are two “Clearwaters” posting in this thread. “Clearwater14” is the original poster!

Here in this Clearwater14 is being told that she is at fault, may have contributed to her husbands desire to go to strip bars, has issues she needs to work out, and that she is playing the victim. I just want to point out to people that this “victim” has expressed desire to be a “victim” of God’s will - she wants to do whatever He tells her!

Clearwater14, this is what happens when you are in a messy situation. People don’t like your mess - messes are messy - and they dismissively move away from the ickiness by making a quick assuming judgment that “both must be at fault”. They compare themselves to you and realize *they *don’t have such a messy mess, so *you must be doing something wrong. Its rubbing salt into the wound, isn’t it? But remember that Our Lady who was faultless *and living entirely in God’s will suffered judgement when she showed up pregnant. She knows!

Please quit presuming you know everything about the posters here. We’re very familiar with longtime member Clearwater.

 

[Eliza10]

I think your pain is real and justified, however, and not making excuses for your husband, people lie because they are afraid of others reaction. You seem like you are a very angry person, and perhaps emotionally fragile. I am not proud of this but have been in an unhealthy situation with someone who had frightening angry over emotional reactions, and I did and still would lie and lie over and over again to avoid those terrifying reactions. I may be wrong and immoral but it was and still is self preservation.

I also don’t think real forgivness requires conditions. It sounds like if there was more to tell it might harm you more. There might be a good reason, and so much of this gives me a dull sick feeling in my stomach.

I do genuinely hope you find peace. It seems to me you either get help and get past this, or live a life bitter with resentment. I cannot see how your anger cannot bleed into other areas of your life and relationships.

petitfleur, You are right that people lie for that reason. However her husband really needs to be honest in order to repent, and for her to trust him. Perhaps he is psychologically ill? Obviously he must certainly must be spiritually ill. As to receiving forgiveness if you have not repented, hmm, maybe she should ask a priest that one. Clearly one can and should forgive the unrepentant sinner - but it would be foolish to ever trust one who does not admit to his lies, right? Married to a man you cannot trust? Better see a good *truly Catholic *counselor for that one!

I think its wrong to forecast she would ever choose to live a life of bitter resentment. Just because a person is in a situation where that is the typical response, does not mean that person would ever choose that.

 

[Eliza10]

Please quit presuming you know everything about the posters here. We’re very familiar with longtime member Clearwater.

Do you have nothing to say concerning my response to you? You only want to pick at something simple I shared for the benefit of other readers who “may not have noticed”, just because you are not one? " It looks to me as if you are simply looking for “points of disagreement”.

 

[pianistclare]

Do you have nothing to say concerning my response to you? You only want to pick at something simple I shared for the benefit of other readers who might confuse the two, since you did not confuse them? " Just looking for “points of disagreement”?

You did bring up annulment, which presumes divorce you know. When you seek annulment, you are divorced. Beyond that, no, I don’t care to have any further discussion with you. You’re not the OP.

I said what I wanted to say to the OP.