Am I being unreasonable to my wife?

[Patrick7]

…unless you watched the Matrix Revolution The woman in that movie defends the main character (‘her man.’)

God created man and woman with different characteristics…neither is better than the other…just different. Men are naturally physically stronger than women–in most cases. But, there are women who are very strong physically, but most men are stronger, by nature. So, a man defending a woman in say a robbery as you post above, would actually be instinctive…same way a female tiger defends her cubs. If someone were attacking my children, my physical strength would probably be ‘super human,’ as this is also a natural instinct for mothers and fathers to defend their ‘young.’

I don’t think that we can say because of this that a woman would be less likely to defend her husband…but if the two were being attacked, it would merely be a more natural instinct for a man to protect the woman. (even if they are not married or even together) I personally wouldn’t want to be married to a man who expected me to stand between him and a robber. But–that being said, I would try my hardest to protect my family, if I found myself in such a state…again, instinct would most likely take over.

ok…sorry, we are sooo off topic now! Suffice to say, women and men are different…and God knew what He was doing most certainly when He created man and woman to balance and complement one another.

I think you and I are of the same thought.

All I am saying is GENERALLYspeaking when a woman is in the presence of a man she knows, she will expect him to risk his own safety to protect her and a man would more than likely do it because of the way we are built. Even the weakest of men would rather die than have their egos bruised.

In the absence of a man then its fight-or-flight time. A woman does what she has to do esp if there are children involved or a loved one. There is no doubt a woman can be strong. The miracle of birth itself is a clear demonstration of the strength of women. And how some women can do it without drugs is even further puzzling. Imagine how child birth was 150 years ago or like in Jesus time and before that where there were no drugs(OUCH! ). Also remember in those days people had 7,8,9,10 kids and more.

 

[Patrick7]

Also remember of reading a story in the papers, where a pregnant woman found out that a certain man had killed her husband. She snapped and pushed him out the window where he met his fate.

 

[jmcrae]

I think you and I are of the same thought.

All I am saying is GENERALLYspeaking when a woman is in the presence of a man she knows, she will expect him to risk his own safety to protect her and a man would more than likely do it because of the way we are built. Even the weakest of men would rather die than have their egos bruised.

Doesn’t this have more to do with childhood training than with how we are built?

I remember as a kid wanting to help out, and being told that I had to wait for the boys to help, first - it would be considered rude for a girl to step forward and help until after all the boys had a chance to offer. If the boys never offered, then the girls were allowed to help, but not until the boys had had the first chance. But my first instinct was to want to help.

In the absence of a man then its fight-or-flight time. A woman does what she has to do esp if there are children involved or a loved one. There is no doubt a woman can be strong. The miracle of birth itself is beyond me. And how some women can do it without drugs is even further puzzling. Imagine how child birth was 150 years ago or like in Jesus time and before that where there were no drugs(OUCH! ). Also remember in those days people had 7,8,9,10 kids and more.

Yes, women are very strong.

 

[Patrick7]

Doesn’t this have more to do with childhood training than with how we are built?

It Could be but I think its natural instinct as well.

I remember as a kid wanting to help out, and being told that I had to wait for the boys to help, first - it would be considered rude for a girl to step forward and help until after all the boys had a chance to offer. If the boys never offered, then the girls were allowed to help, but not until the boys had had the first chance. But my first instinct was to want to help.

That sounds interesting. Just to elaborate, Who would be offended if a female helped? was it the boys? Or the people needing help?

 

[Leeta]

But doing community or civic work is quite a laudable and praiseworthy use of time rather than merely earning money or climbing a carrier ladder and the challenges are more thrilling since they are bettering the community in some way.

A woman would be out of the house doing this and still have time to catch up on housework. Think of all the lonely, forgotten and abandoned people to be helped or the children to be mentored!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Doesn’t this have more to do with childhood training than with how we are built?

I remember as a kid wanting to help out, and being told that I had to wait for the boys to help, first - it would be considered rude for a girl to step forward and help until after all the boys had a chance to offer. If the boys never offered, then the girls were allowed to help, but not until the boys had had the first chance. But my first instinct was to want to help.

Yes, women are very strong.

True. But they’re still not men.

 

[Catholic90]

But doing community or civic work is quite a laudable and praiseworthy use of time rather than merely earning money or climbing a carrier ladder and the challenges are more thrilling since they are bettering the community in some way. I better the community AND I get paid to do so. It’s called being a teacher!

A woman would be out of the house doing this and still have time to catch up on housework. Think of all the lonely, forgotten and abandoned people to be helped or the children to be mentored! Yes, perhaps Patrick should devote some of his time and money to them!

This should be something she WANTS to do, not something her hubby TELLS her to do, though. Get it?

If she spent years and years studying to be a lawyer and wants to pursue this finally, why can’t she? Patrick presumably knew what she was studying before they got married. Presumably they discussed this before they got married. None of this should be a surprise to him!

Men do not TELL their wives what to do! They may offer opinions and suggestions, but do not dictate that “you will do this now.”

 

[sanctamaria17]

I agree with that. And I’ll end up getting paid to do something that betters the community, also known as being a doctor. If she wants and feels called to volunteer, then she should. If she feels called to work, she should. No one should be telling her what to do except God. She’s a grown woman expecting a baby!

 

[Patrick7]

Men do not TELL their wives what to do! They may offer opinions and suggestions, but do not dictate that “you will do this now.”

This is correct. I never give my wife commands. Its a bad way to be.

 

[jmcrae]

It Could be but I think its natural instinct as well.

That sounds interesting. Just to elaborate, Who would be offended if a female helped? was it the boys? Or the people needing help?

Supposedly, the boys. But the boys had to be taught to be offended by this - when we were little, they didn’t care one way or the other who was helping, and who wasn’t - they’d pitch in if they felt like it, but they weren’t bothered if there were girls helping, too.

 

[dessert]

This is correct. I never give my wife commands. Its a bad way to be.

Patrick I think you are thinking of your wife as like your mother, you need to realize she is in a different time zone and she is not having to act like your mother did.

This is a different age and life is a lot different , we don’t even have to go out to pay bills that can be done on line. The microwave and the meals you can buy are done in minuites not hours. Your mother and mine lived in an entirely diff era as your baby will grow up into a new era. You can buy cookie dough allready formed on a sheet and just place them on aheet anclaim you made cookies, the child doesn’t care, you have done something with her or him so that doesn’t matter to children as they don’t know waht time is and the quality of time is important and God wants us to not care about time like children do and focus on the moment no matter if it is one or 60 moments.
Don’t try to recapture your childhood with your baby but make new traditions and form your own relationship with him or her, make traditions no matter how small or short and this will give your child security. You won’t be able to do everything that your father did with you but you will find some new interests and watch your child and what special talents and gifts God has engulfed him or her with. Thank God and praise Him everymoment, for everyone in your life, and try not to focus on the negative so much. God knows your future and be prepared when He says now is the time.
god knows when the baby is going to say now I’m ready to come to you because God is sending you a very special package that day, but God is entrusting YOU as the head to lead with your wife at your side so stick with it I know you can do it Patrick!
You and your wife have created a living being together and God is going to breathe a breath of life of soul into him or her.
Thank Him for the that and praise Him for what you do have and remember He will take care of you as he even cares about the sparrows He will care more for you.
D.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Instant cookies may be nice, but nothing makes up for an involved mother AND father.

Very recently a study came out saying that a traditional mother works the equivalent of three full-time jobs. Work at home is work! Moms don’t just lie around eating bon-bons or snapping their fingers to make instant meals.

Infants require constant attention and care. But children of any age need the guidance of their families.

 

[jrabs]

Very recently a study came out saying that a traditional mother works the equivalent of three full-time jobs. Work at home is work! Moms don’t just lie around eating bon-bons or snapping their fingers to make instant meals.

Not sure what the point is. No one is disputing that women staying home are quite busy. It’s really hard work. That has never been in question by the OP or his wife.

Just really does she want to stay home? No - the OP said she wants to pursue a career in law.

That will make BOTH mom and dad responsible to work out schedules and responsibilities.

 

[dessert]

Infants require constant attention and care. But children of any age need the guidance of their families.

:yup: :grouphug:

 

[murpho]

Part 1a​

OK now I have managed to get back online. let me post some of my views on this subject.

First off to the female faction of this forum, and take this for what its worth. Your 50-50 idealism is not reality or even modern it is simply post-feminist male rationalization. You have bought into the new and improved sales pitch, hook line and sinker to the point you don’t even realize you have . First off your many years on this earth (or even the 40 years of feminism) have not, will not change many of the basic inequalities/ compatibilities between males and females. Before you put to much stock in the new episode of MTV’s Real Life or the current sales pitch from Oprah or Dr Phil or Ricky Lake . I suggest that you add a couple of pieces of real information one of which was written way back in the old 1800’s. It’s a little dittie called “The Origin of Species” by this guy Charles Darwin. He is credited with the theory of evolution. It’ll explain why men are hunters and women are gatherers for 2 million years and then back it up with a current issue of Master & Johnson or the Hite report on human sexuality and behaviour. They’ll provide you with more beneficial, useful information than the entire Barnes and Nobel section of latest works from the masters self help book sales for personal profit club or a year of reality TV, take your choice.

To the men I suggest you round out the behavioral knowledge and I would read Trump’s the “Art of the Deal” a modern language version of the 2000 year old masterpiece called “The Art of War” by Tsun Tszu. Because when you find that woman for the "50-50” deal as women like to put it, after a short time (way before that till death do us part deadline) Your going to need to know how to keep getting any attention (including sex) at all while your 50 is being annually increased for inflation, child bearing,cost of living and hers is adjusted down for depriciation of you. All I’m saying is that all marriages are relationships based on deals made with another species. If you start the partnership 50/50 with the assumption that you are the same as the other species, have the same ideals, goals, desires, hormones and the modern world guarantees equality, you will learn the hard way that this is called “idealism”. And then you will learn the “realism” of equality through the modern family law system that will allow you, infact insist, that you watch while her 50 is completely protected and your 50 is carved up like a Christmas goose. You had better examine your expectations if you are thinking about marriage because you’ll get your best deal starting with a little higher negotiating stance in the beginning as your barganing power will significantly deminish down the road. Sorry for the rant but anyone that I can help avoid, at least the shock and awe of, that first trip into the blender, I feel it is my duty.

I will continue in Part 1b

 

[murpho]

Part 1b​

Now to look on the biblical side of things……

The bible has dozens of verses in the scripture both in the old and new testament which pertains to the roles of male and female in and out of marriage.

BUT….

The verse which seems to gain the most attention is a verse in Paul’s letter in Ephesians (verse 5:21-5:33). There is also verse on how children SHOULD behave (Eph 6:1-3) and how slaves SHOULD behave to their masters (in other words employee to employer in Eph 6:5-8)

Human authorities have a realm of authority which is limited. How one defines the realm of each authority figure is a matter of some debate. But God should have the last word on such a matter as He establishes authorities (Rom 13:1-6). Just as there are those who are considered (or consider themselves) to have authority outside their real realm of authority (such are not legitimate authorities), so there are those who are legitimate authorities, but are not treated as such (or may not be considering themselves as such). The role of the Husband is often an example of the later. Of the three Abrahamic Religions, the Chrisitan Husbands are generally in modern times not treated as authority figures but rather FIGUREHEADS, neither in most of Western society and rarely in Christianity/Catholism.

“Submit to one another” does not mean for everyone to submit to everyone. Else for submission cannot be applied unless it is done with respect to a legitimate recognized authority figure. And in this case it is referring to human authorities within the Christian community.

The King James Version has it “Submitting yourselves one to another.” He is then kind of enough to show us how it is done by defining who the “one” is and who “another” is. For the term “one to another” is a single greek word, which is also used in Matthew 25:32

 Mt 25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one 
 from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Here you can see it being applied to mean separation into two categories. So also here in this verse. The sections that follow reveal these two categories: The authority and the one to submit to the authority

Eph 5:21-33 The husband is the authority figure whom the wife is to submit to.
Eph 6:1-3 The parents are the authority figures whom the children are to submit to.
Eph 6:5-8 The masters are the authority figures whom the slaves are to submit to.

I will continue in part 1c…

 

[murpho]

Part 1c​

We notice also there are no commands here nor in the rest of the New Testament whereby husbands are commanded to submit to their wives, nor for parents to submit to their children, nor for masters to submit to their slaves.

All these facts affirm that “Submitting yourselves one to another” is not to be interpreted to mean that everyone must submit to everyone else, but rather to each is to submit to the proper human authority figures established in accordance with the Bible. On this basis, if we are to assume that what the OP is telling us 100% the truth and correct, then it’s logical to conclude that neither him nor his wife is being unreasonable and that she should, on principle, yield to her husband if she has any faith in his ability to provide.

I contrast this proper interpretation with an interpretation made popular today by the philosophy of Christian feminism along with the general rejection of the concept of submission in among many Christian circles today in which there is no recognized human authority figure and thus no actual submission taking place.

This is most common in marriages today in which the role of husband is not reckoned as a legitimate role of authority over his wife but rather a FIGUREHEAD. Many Christian/Catholic circles today reckon the marriage relationship to be purely egalitarian, having nothing to do with authority. And as the marriage relationship is a reflection of the relationship between Christ and the church, this idea is carried over into the Christian’s relationship with Christ, in which Christ is treated as a companion but not as Lord. For example one feminist commenting on this passage says, “Jesus doesn’t demand of us obedience, that too would be a denial of the very love he has for us and for all.” Compare that with John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.”

Speaking honestly I can tell you that it has been my observation that this command is simply not taken seriously in the general Christian/Catholic community. And it is occasions like this where and and many Chrisitian Denominations part ways. I am appalled at the degree of contempt with which many Christians, including pastors and priest, deal with this subject. I’ve talked with pastors/priest in the catholic church on this subject and practically got thrown out of two churches because of my convictions on this matter. But the rationality of these pastors/priest is so lame and unconvincing that I can only conclude that the general Christian community desperately seeks any straw of an argument with which to justify their modernistic interpretation which rejects human authority.

Besides ignoring the context of the passage, I have found that those who hold this interpretation are not so quick to apply it to the child-parent relationship. Why? To be consistent, shouldn’t one argue that the reason why parents aren’t commanded to obey their children is that they have no problems obeying their children?
Beyond the issue of interpretation is the issue of application. There are those, even among the traditionalists, who hold that these passages are culturally dependant and no longer apply as today we live in an egalitarian society in contrast with the culture back then.
However I would ask people who hold such a “that-was-then-this-is-now” type of philosophy, on what basis should we conform our lives to philosophies of the world? Should we have the idea that “when in Sodom, do as the Sodomites do”? How do you apply Rom 12:2 (Not to mention most of the New Testament), if in fact we are to conform ourselves to our culture?

"word for submit in the bible = hupotasso
to obey, be subject : A Greek military term meaning “to arrange troop divisions in a military fashion under the command of a leader”. In non-military use, it was “a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden”.

In part 2 I will go deeper on this and look into roles of the sexes…

A word to the wise is enough.

suarte.

 

[Patrick7]

Supposedly, the boys. But the boys had to be taught to be offended by this - when we were little, they didn’t care one way or the other who was helping, and who wasn’t - they’d pitch in if they felt like it, but they weren’t bothered if there were girls helping, too.

perhaps its to do with men feeling needed. i know i enjoy feeling needed.

 

[jmcrae]

perhaps its to do with men feeling needed. i know i enjoy feeling needed.

Everyone likes to feel needed.

 

[Kronos]

Hello ladies and gentlemen,

Thanks alot for having on this board. I was born and raise catholic.

At the moment I am clashing with my wife on some domestic/household issues. I told my wife that I don’t feel it’s necessary to work since I make a very good salary ( and I mean very good). I suggested it is more important that she focus more on the domestic front and be a homemaker. I also suggested that instead of chasing a career, she rather spend her time devoting herself to charitable causes and the community since she will never “want”. Anything she needs/wants I can pretty much get several times over and in abundance.

I also asked her to kindly ask or let me know of her plans and where she is going, since I as the man give her enough respect to tell her where I am, what I am doing and how long I will be.

She tells me I am being unreasonable and controlling.

Fair enough, I work extra hard to make sure that she will never desire anything and that anything she wants I can get.

After a few attempts I finally told her to do what she wants and I will say no more.

Are my being completely unreasonable? If I am, don’t be timid about telling me off.

Since I’m not timid… You are being unreasonable. You’re arrogant and you’re trying to control your wife. I sincerely hope she doesn’t quit her job, otherwise you’ll try to control her life. Don’t put on any more sweet faces. We all know what you’re really like…