Am I being unreasonable?

[EasterJoy]

… I guess the part that really bothers me is that if I bring it up, he gets mad and says I am throwing it in his face…I love him and I want it to work, but the doubt he caused make that hard to move past. I have tried to forgive but him getting close to this other woman (she’s married, supposedly happily, and pregnant) still makes me uncomfortable because now I seem to have turned into a jealous person.

You are right to be concerned about his reaction. This is not about whether or not what he did was wrong. Some women would be fine with it, and others would not. This is about showing concern for your feelings. Now, if you did not allow that perhaps he meant nothing by it and did not intend to hurt you, then perhaps that is unreasonable. If he is telling you not to feel what you feel or that it is not your job to have your own boundaries, that is something else again.

The way this works out in a good situation is this:
You: That made me uncomfortable when you kissed Sally.
Him: Oh, Sweetie, I meant nothing by that! She is like a sister to me!
You: Well, it did not feel sisterly to me, the way you two acted. It hurt my feelings and made me wonder if you’d cheat on me. You and I have both been cheated on, so maybe you know what I mean.
Him: Listen, I’m sorry. I never meant to hurt your feelings. I will not kiss other women any more…well, except Mom and my sister. Mom and my sister are OK, right?
You: Well, yes!! Sheesh!
Him: Hugs are OK?
You: Hugs like you give your actual sister, yes! I can live without you lifting her off the floor, though.
Him: OK, good. I can live with that. We’re good then?
You: Well, if you meant nothing by it and you’re going to at least stop the kissing, then yes, we’re good. It was just a misunderstanding. Is there anything I do around other guys that bothers you?
Him: Good. No, so far, I haven’t felt jealous of you around other guys. I will let know, though, if that changes. Now, what’s…

Some people do not marry because they can’t come to an agreement about their friendships and shows of affection with friends outside the marriage. That is OK. Take the time to get this right and make sure that you have a middle ground you are both OK with–neither so open that you feel insecure or so restrictive that either of you resent the boundaries. You will thank yourselves. This man, in particular, cannot afford to get into a marriage that isn’t going to work. See to it that you don’t, if you really care about those kids!

I would also discourage the children gently from calling you “Mom”. You should say, “Your dad and I have not decided to get married yet. I will always be your friend, but I don’t get to be called your mom until I marry your dad, OK? That would be a great honor, but we can’t get ahead of ourselves. Acting married before actually getting married seems like fun, but it gets a lot of people into trouble–don’t forget that when you grow up, OK?”

 

[MJJean]

I asked him if I have managed to catch him at it every time and he said yes…so I said then obviously you aren’t very good at the lying and hiding things. My intuition is pretty strong and so I do think that I have caught him every time it’s happened. The truth ALWAYS comes out. Being cheated on previously with the other man made me not ignore those gut feelings and dig. I guess the part that really bothers me is that if I bring it up, he gets mad and says I am throwing it in his face. Well, the trouble only started in September, not like I have had more than a few months to heal and his own actions keep bringing it right back to the forefront. I have tried to move past it because of the kids and because we do tend to lift each other up instead of dragging each other down. Had we not met, I doubt we would be trying to grow our faith together. So, I am torn. I love him and I want it to work, but the doubt he caused make that hard to move past. I have tried to forgive but him getting close to this other woman (she’s married, supposedly happily, and pregnant) still makes me uncomfortable because now I seem to have turned into a jealous person.

I understand that bringing it up is both something you need to do to work through and get past it and something that makes him feel like you’re throwing it in his face. But the truth is, there would be nothing to work through or bring up if he hadn’t done wrong and he has to accept that there are and will be consequences. Going to couples therapy may help both of you.

I am married to a wonderful man now and I trust him…now. But he did cheat on me when we were dating with verbal plans to eventually marry. It caused problems for years. He explained what happened and why, I did my best to understand and get past it, but one of the unavoidable consequences of his actions was that our relationship was damaged and it took nearly a decade to truly move past the incident. If he hadn’t felt truly wretched when he realized how hurt I was and if he hadn’t accepted that his actions had and would have consequences for a long time I don’t think I’d be his wife now.

I hate to say it, but you’ll continue to be a jealous unless/until you learn to trust him again.

I married a cradle Catholic who fell away. I was not Christian of any flavor when we met and married.This past year my DH, after 10 years of marriage and 13 years as a couple, returned to the Church. One of the first things our priest and the pastoral assistant Sister who handles RCIA spoke to me about privately was that they were concerned I had decided to convert for my husband. Of course, I didn’t think so. But I did want to do the right thing and really soul search. I came to the conclusion that my faith couldn’t be tied to my husbands nor could his faith be tied to mine. In your situation, it seems one of the reasons you are staying when you think running in the other direction might be a good idea is “growing in faith” together and that you helped bring him back to his faith.

You can’t think like that. If you were to walk away and either of you left the Church it would be because your faith wasn’t yours to begin with. Sure, we can share our journey with someone. However, our relationship with God and the Church is ours and ours alone.

Frankly, for all we know, your purpose in his life was to give him a chance to come back to the Church and his purpose in your life was to help you learn exactly what you don’t want and to have the faith and confidence necessary to go it alone until you find what you’re looking for in a lifelong mate.

I understand wanting to work it out for the kids, but they’re not your children. Imagine marrying and having your own prescious babies with this man. Now imagine that scenario with him continuing to lie, cheat, or have inappropriate “friendships” and “crushes”. What would that do to you and to your children? You haven’t had your own children yet, but you already have a responsibility to those unborn babies. You need to make sure you are taking care of yourself spiritually,mentally, and physically so that you can be the best mom possible. You also have the responsibility of choosing the best husband and father possible for those future babies.

 

[MJJean]

You are right to be concerned about his reaction. This is not about whether or not what he did was wrong. Some women would be fine with it, and others would not. This is about showing concern for your feelings.

Some people do not marry because they can’t come to an agreement about their friendships and shows of affection with friends outside the marriage. That is OK. Take the time to get this right and make sure that you have a middle ground you are both OK with–neither so open that you feel insecure or so restrictive that either of you resent the boundaries. You will thank yourselves. This man, in particular, cannot afford to get into a marriage that isn’t going to work. See to it that you don’t, if you really care about those kids!

I would also discourage the children gently from calling you “Mom”. You should say, “Your dad and I have not decided to get married yet. I will always be your friend, but I don’t get to be called your mom until I marry your dad, OK? That would be a great honor, but we can’t get ahead of ourselves. Acting married before actually getting married seems like fun, but it gets a lot of people into trouble–don’t forget that when you grow up, OK?”

Also, OP, you mentioned that he has said he only wants to marry once (more) and that he wants to do it right. I have been married before, so believe me when I say I am not holding a previous marriage against him. But I think it’s a good idea to remember that he probably said the same thing to his previous wives. Be very careful, ask question and listen to your instincts. Do not settle because you care for this man and his kids. Know exactly what your dealbreakers are, what you want from and in a husband, and accept nothing less. Remember, this is for life. If, at the time of the marriage, you validly marry there is no going back no matter what he does after.

 

[Kiwiruckle]

I understand that bringing it up is both something you need to do to work through and get past it and something that makes him feel like you’re throwing it in his face. But the truth is, there would be nothing to work through or bring up if he hadn’t done wrong and he has to accept that there are and will be consequences. Going to couples therapy may help both of you.

I am married to a wonderful man now and I trust him…now. But he did cheat on me when we were dating with verbal plans to eventually marry. It caused problems for years. He explained what happened and why, I did my best to understand and get past it, but one of the unavoidable consequences of his actions was that our relationship was damaged and it took nearly a decade to truly move past the incident. If he hadn’t felt truly wretched when he realized how hurt I was and if he hadn’t accepted that his actions had and would have consequences for a long time I don’t think I’d be his wife now.

I hate to say it, but you’ll continue to be a jealous unless/until you learn to trust him again.

I married a cradle Catholic who fell away. I was not Christian of any flavor when we met and married.This past year my DH, after 10 years of marriage and 13 years as a couple, returned to the Church. One of the first things our priest and the pastoral assistant Sister who handles RCIA spoke to me about privately was that they were concerned I had decided to convert for my husband. Of course, I didn’t think so. But I did want to do the right thing and really soul search. I came to the conclusion that my faith couldn’t be tied to my husbands nor could his faith be tied to mine. In your situation, it seems one of the reasons you are staying when you think running in the other direction might be a good idea is “growing in faith” together and that you helped bring him back to his faith.

You can’t think like that. If you were to walk away and either of you left the Church it would be because your faith wasn’t yours to begin with. Sure, we can share our journey with someone. However, our relationship with God and the Church is ours and ours alone.

Frankly, for all we know, your purpose in his life was to give him a chance to come back to the Church and his purpose in your life was to help you learn exactly what you don’t want and to have the faith and confidence necessary to go it alone until you find what you’re looking for in a lifelong mate.

I understand wanting to work it out for the kids, but they’re not your children. Imagine marrying and having your own prescious babies with this man. Now imagine that scenario with him continuing to lie, cheat, or have inappropriate “friendships” and “crushes”. What would that do to you and to your children? You haven’t had your own children yet, but you already have a responsibility to those unborn babies. You need to make sure you are taking care of yourself spiritually,mentally, and physically so that you can be the best mom possible. You also have the responsibility of choosing the best husband and father possible for those future babies.

Actually, I do have a daughter. She is almost 15 and I am 40 and he is 38. I split with her father (the cheater) when she was under the age of two and didn’t date anyone until right before my current fiance and I met…just to clarify.

 

[John_Lazarus]

Ok, hold on. He was married twice, but his youngest child is to a woman he never married?? Run, don’t walk, away from this. He clearly has issues with commitment, how to treat women, etc.

Your first post had me thinking “yep, she is over reacting”. My husband & I both have opposite sex friends we would hug and/or kiss on the cheek. We are both ok with that.

But then you expanded on the history. He sounds like someone who also has issues with being alone. He was dating you, but texting “dirty” with others? I don’t care if it wasn’t physical, that was cheating. He has shown you who he is. Either accept that you will always have doubts with him, or move on.

Just my $.02

This.

He’s cheating on you emotionally, he is being sexually verbal – or verbally sexual – with another woman. While a kiss on a cheek may be chaste, here there seems to be a pattern of inappropriateness.

 

[MJJean]

Actually, I do have a daughter. She is almost 15 and I am 40 and he is 38. I split with her father (the cheater) when she was under the age of two and didn’t date anyone until right before my current fiance and I met…just to clarify.

Ahh, good to understand. I am 38 and my children are 20, 15, and 12. Oldest two are daughters from my first “marriage”, youngest is a son from my current marriage. I’m in the process of seeking annulment so that my husband and I can convalidate our marriage in the Church.

So, then, just change my question/concern/advice to fit

Even if you two decide not to have any more baby humans there are still the existing children to consider. If his behavior from September reared its head again after some time, either before of after a marriage, you’d still have the fallout and how it would harm the kids to consider. The longer you are with this man in a serious relationship the more devastated they’d be if he misbehaved and you felt compelled to leave. Not to mention how devastated you’d be!

It’s good that you came here and are asking questions both here and in your own head. Hopefully you’ll be better able to make the right decision whatever that is!

I’m more a fish or cut bait person when it comes to dating and marriage. The way I figure it, after about a year you are either sure marriage is where things are headed and that it’s the right decision or it’s time to let go and move forward with your life.

 

[Kiwiruckle]

Ahh, good to understand. I am 38 and my children are 20, 15, and 12. Oldest two are daughters from my first “marriage”, youngest is a son from my current marriage. I’m in the process of seeking annulment so that my husband and I can convalidate our marriage in the Church.

So, then, just change my question/concern/advice to fit

Even if you two decide not to have any more baby humans there are still the existing children to consider. If his behavior from September reared its head again after some time, either before of after a marriage, you’d still have the fallout and how it would harm the kids to consider. The longer you are with this man in a serious relationship the more devastated they’d be if he misbehaved and you felt compelled to leave. Not to mention how devastated you’d be!

It’s good that you came here and are asking questions both here and in your own head. Hopefully you’ll be better able to make the right decision whatever that is!

I’m more a fish or cut bait person when it comes to dating and marriage. The way I figure it, after about a year you are either sure marriage is where things are headed and that it’s the right decision or it’s time to let go and move forward with your life.

There’s my real dilemma right there. All of the issues started right at the one year mark. We were great before then. His doubts about me were because of the kids. Those three in the middle are adhd and that house is chaos and I had mentioned that unless they can be reigned in some, I wasn’t sure I could handle it and he festered and let his doubts run away with him instead of us talking it out. He handled things badly and now I am the bad guy for letting it turn me into a jealous crazy woman, I think, in his eyes.

 

[EasterJoy]

There’s my real dilemma right there. All of the issues started right at the one year mark. We were great before then. His doubts about me were because of the kids. Those three in the middle are adhd and that house is chaos and I had mentioned that unless they can be reigned in some, I wasn’t sure I could handle it and he festered and let his doubts run away with him instead of us talking it out. He handled things badly and now I am the bad guy for letting it turn me into a jealous crazy woman, I think, in his eyes.

I really do not like that you’re being made out to be “the bad guy” because you don’t like him kissing other women. Is that going to be his policy, that he gets to decide what bothers you and what doesn’t? No wonder you can’t let go of this! He has claimed carte blanche for himself, and expects you to accept whatever he says. No, don’t accept that. Advocate for respect of your feelings.

Another thing: Count the cost, and don’t apologize for it. If you don’t think you are cut out to parent the children for any reason whatsoever, then don’t marry this man. You don’t need an excuse. You only need to say to yourself, “I can see what needs to be done here, and I will not be able to do it.” It doesn’t matter if you lack the ability or believe you won’t get the permission or just that you sense that you are giving yourself an impossible job. If you take on this family, your attitude needs to be “Whatever it take, I WILL do it. It may not be a pretty landing, but I can promise myself that we will all walk away from it, that it will be a safe trip, even if it is a bumpy one.” I think you can imagine what life will be like in the alternative universe. Don’t choose that alternative.

 

[MJJean]

There’s my real dilemma right there. All of the issues started right at the one year mark. We were great before then. His doubts about me were because of the kids. Those three in the middle are adhd and that house is chaos and I had mentioned that unless they can be reigned in some, I wasn’t sure I could handle it and he festered and let his doubts run away with him instead of us talking it out. He handled things badly and now I am the bad guy for letting it turn me into a jealous crazy woman, I think, in his eyes.

I don’t know you or your fiance, but have you seriously considered that the common denominator in his 2 former marriages and one long term relationship that the last child came from is him? These relationships failed for a reason. Sure, some of it was the wives and the long term woman, but at least a portion was because if him. No way around that. He wouldn’t be the first man to claim he was a good boy while his evil ex wife was doing XYZ and that claim not being entirely true. Heaven knows my ex loves to tell anyone who will listen about what a dastardly creature I was and how he was so good. His new wife believes him because she loves him, God help her. Even after I wrote to her telling her what she was getting into. Even after she caught him in a cyber affair and then an actual affair. Even after he started hitting her, too which my oldest has witnessed a few times and my former MIL acknowledges. Love can truly be blind.

A divorced person ready for marriage is one who openly and fully admits to what he or she did wrong. You’ve met the one wife, but have you chatted with her and asked for her side of the story?

Having been married to a real piece of work I can say one thing for sure and that is I could have handled it better than I did. My ex lied like a rug, stole even from his own mother and his employers, cheated left and right, wouldn’t keep a job, and was physically and emotionally abusive. I totally justified the fact that I also had affairs when we were married by saying it was him and his behavior that drive me to it. But the truth is I married the man and I should have behaved myself better. I regret the marriage, but it’s long over. What I have left to live with is how I behaved. I should have either not married him or divorced him when I simply couldn’t take it anymore. Because of this learning and understanding I know I will not make the same mistake again.

Does your fiance really, truly, accept full responsibility for his behavior and understand deep in his heart that no matter his doubts he absolutely cannot behave that way again? Does he understand that his behavior gives you good reason to be suspicious and to tell him you find certain things absolutely unacceptable and that he will have to live with that?

Have you considered that he acted very inappropriately with other women and was found out so he needed an excuse for his behavior and ended up using a possibly real, possibly fake concern re: you raising the kids? I mean, it is a real consideration, but certainly doesn’t justify what he did and he wouldn’t be the first man to say in a roundabout way he’s not culpable for his actions because he had doubts about X.

Not trying to be critical or mean. Just wanted to toss the ideas out there in case they have never crossed your mind so that you can think about it and be very sure before you continue forward.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

I think I should tell you just a little bit of what happened to me, as someone who was on the other end of dirty talk, prior to the ability to text. I had a boyfriend that began as innocent friends. I worked with him. I liked him as more than a friend and wanted to date him. I asked around to see if he had a girlfriend. Everyone said they did not think so or no. He was sort of a private person, but been working with these people for many years.

We began talking on the phone just as friends. Then he began flirting on the phone, then came the borderline dirty talk, which I ignored at first and changed the subject. I was pretty naive, even as a forty year old who had past relationships. I had never been married and my past boyfriends were gentlemen. I was taken in by his talk because it made me feel wanted and because I liked him. I just assumed people don’t talk that way if they already are involved with someone. He kept calling me a friend, even so.

Well, at some point in a conversation he told me he had a girlfriend. This was actually a bit hard to believe because he brought it up at a time he seemed to be mad or trying to protect himself from getting close. At that time I reacted like, okay I will pull back and act like a friend and let’s talk about your girlfriend and why you are talking to me. But he closed up and told me it was none of my business.

We didn’t talk for awhile, then we started talking again with my insistance that it will be a purely platonic friendship if he wanted to be friends. That only worked for awhile because he knew I liked him as more than a friend. He started talking dirty in a way that flattered me and we fell into a relationship, which he continued to call a friendship.

Years later, after we had a long off again on again, relationship, he broke off with me saying he had someone. He did that during an argument that he started. Now, my circumstance was unusual actually, because he was manipulative and emotionally abusive and hard for me to tell what the truth was. I kept telling myself he was just saying these things to get to me and get his own way. I will never know.

The thing is: I honestly thought that if he had a girlfriend he would not be doing this or would get caught early on. Like I said, this was before texting. Neither of us had a cell and he did not even have call waiting. I thought it would be logical for a “girlfriend” to catch on if his phone was tied up for hours. But I will never know.

Dirty texts and phone calls can lead to other things and calling it friendship hides the real motives. A man who talks dirty in a text or otherwise is trying to get reactions. When he does, he will try for more and more. If he has a girlfriend, that is, in itself, cheating. He may say or even think it is innocent, but it is not. It is done to create a dialoge and feeling that he should be creating with his girlfriend alone, or more appropriately with her after he marries her.

There is also a chance that a girl he shows this attention to might not like it and your future might be that other women avoid you, either out of embarrassment or because they don’t want to be treated like less than a lady.

You sound like a nice girl who deserves so much more out of marriage than were you are heading.

 

[Kiwiruckle]

I don’t know you or your fiance, but have you seriously considered that the common denominator in his 2 former marriages and one long term relationship that the last child came from is him? These relationships failed for a reason. Sure, some of it was the wives and the long term woman, but at least a portion was because if him. No way around that. He wouldn’t be the first man to claim he was a good boy while his evil ex wife was doing XYZ and that claim not being entirely true. Heaven knows my ex loves to tell anyone who will listen about what a dastardly creature I was and how he was so good. His new wife believes him because she loves him, God help her. Even after I wrote to her telling her what she was getting into. Even after she caught him in a cyber affair and then an actual affair. Even after he started hitting her, too which my oldest has witnessed a few times and my former MIL acknowledges. Love can truly be blind.

A divorced person ready for marriage is one who openly and fully admits to what he or she did wrong. You’ve met the one wife, but have you chatted with her and asked for her side of the story?

Having been married to a real piece of work I can say one thing for sure and that is I could have handled it better than I did. My ex lied like a rug, stole even from his own mother and his employers, cheated left and right, wouldn’t keep a job, and was physically and emotionally abusive. I totally justified the fact that I also had affairs when we were married by saying it was him and his behavior that drive me to it. But the truth is I married the man and I should have behaved myself better. I regret the marriage, but it’s long over. What I have left to live with is how I behaved. I should have either not married him or divorced him when I simply couldn’t take it anymore. Because of this learning and understanding I know I will not make the same mistake again.

Does your fiance really, truly, accept full responsibility for his behavior and understand deep in his heart that no matter his doubts he absolutely cannot behave that way again? Does he understand that his behavior gives you good reason to be suspicious and to tell him you find certain things absolutely unacceptable and that he will have to live with that?

Have you considered that he acted very inappropriately with other women and was found out so he needed an excuse for his behavior and ended up using a possibly real, possibly fake concern re: you raising the kids? I mean, it is a real consideration, but certainly doesn’t justify what he did and he wouldn’t be the first man to say in a roundabout way he’s not culpable for his actions because he had doubts about X.

Not trying to be critical or mean. Just wanted to toss the ideas out there in case they have never crossed your mind so that you can think about it and be very sure before you continue forward.

The doubts came first. I asked him what was wrong because one day he kept on and on with all this heavy sighing. I kept asking what was wrong. He kept saying he was stressed. Finally after that happened like 5 times I was like seriously…what is wrong? He just blurted…I don’t know if I want to marry you anymore. I think it probably was the truth, however that was the week he had started school, so he had met some woman in class he found interesting. That came up a few days later. So I am willing to bet that since he found her interesting, it made his doubts about me really surface. He was talking about needing space, but when the weekend came around he didn’t want me to not come visit…he said he didn’t know what to do when I am not there.

The first woman that I caught with the texts is his youngest’s mother…she is a bit controlling and seems to like to make him do whatever she wants. She strikes me as the type to do something just to see if she still can control him. Her boyfriend had just cheated on her so who knows what was going on in her mind. I know he was the one that screwed up that relationship because that is what he told me. The first two marriages made him cynical and he acted first in that one…maybe unconsciously to hurt first instead of being the one hurt…but who knows really?

I know the second wife was as bad as he claims because he had a friend that recently moved out of town that I got to know pretty well and she told me that that second wife really screwed him up. She knew plenty about what went on in his relationships and told me way too much I think sometimes. I was never jealous of that one because they both knew it would never work between them and so it wasn’t even an option. I think he has told me the truth about his past. He is mostly a really good guy with a great big heart.

 

[EasterJoy]

The cast of characters and the drama both continue to grow. He does not seem like a good prospect for a really good marriage. To be blunt, he doesn’t seem to have the maturity or the emotional fidelity to do it. If this is the way he’s treating you when your relationship is new and exciting, what is it going to be like when it isn’t? It will not make his children happy for him to be married unless he’s a good husband. If he’s not, they’re better off if he stays unmarried, too, so don’t let them sway you in favor of marrying him. If anything, let their welfare sway you in favor of looking twice and then again before you jump. I think you are the only one who is serious about looking out for them.

If you were my friend, I’d be praying you break up with this guy. I’d want better for you.

 

[MJJean]

The doubts came first. I asked him what was wrong because one day he kept on and on with all this heavy sighing. I kept asking what was wrong. He kept saying he was stressed. Finally after that happened like 5 times I was like seriously…what is wrong? He just blurted…I don’t know if I want to marry you anymore. I think it probably was the truth, however that was the week he had started school, so he had met some woman in class he found interesting. That came up a few days later. So I am willing to bet that since he found her interesting, it made his doubts about me really surface. He was talking about needing space, but when the weekend came around he didn’t want me to not come visit…he said he didn’t know what to do when I am not there.

The first woman that I caught with the texts is his youngest’s mother…she is a bit controlling and seems to like to make him do whatever she wants. She strikes me as the type to do something just to see if she still can control him. Her boyfriend had just cheated on her so who knows what was going on in her mind. I know he was the one that screwed up that relationship because that is what he told me. The first two marriages made him cynical and he acted first in that one…maybe unconsciously to hurt first instead of being the one hurt…but who knows really?

He is mostly a really good guy with a great big heart.

Whoo-boy.

If you want my take, I’d say he started having doubts because he became interested in other women, not that he had doubts and then became interested in other women. And his doubts don’t matter. What matters is how he handled those doubts. And he handled them badly.

What really bothers me is that you say he “acted first” during his first marriage. I’m going to assume that means he cheated first. And the theory is that he cheated to strike first because he feared he would be or was being cheated on and was possibly hurting and in a bad spot for other reasons. You don’t mention cheating in the 2nd marriage or the relationship that resulted in his youngest child, so I’ll try to refrain from making any assumptions there. (But yeah, I’d be willing to bet he wasn’t entirely faithful to those women, either)

If you look at it as a big picture, it seems that he deals with doubts, insecurity, fear of being hurt/betrayed by cheating in one form or another and then blames circumstances instead of accepting personal responsibility for his choices. It also seems this is a well established pattern of behavior dating from his first marriage until at least September 2013.

In my first “marriage” I was depressed, felt hopeless, lonely, starved physically, emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually. I was in a pretty bad state. But the right way to deal with that would have been to end the marriage and remain chaste until the divorce was at least filed, preferably until it was final. And I failed to do that. I am not blaming the cruddy circumstances, my doubts, fears, or insecurities. I am saying that I made poor choices all on my own. That would be the kind of responsibility and recognition of a problem I would require of any divorced man who cheated on his ex before I would even considering a long term relationship and possibly marriage. If he isn’t honestly saying what he did wrong, understands why he did wrong, realizes that he should have handled it better, and will never allow himself to do that wrong again…run.

As for the baby momma…yeah, I’ve heard that same line about she is controlling/manipulative from literally every guy who has been busted cheating with baby momma that I have ever known. That’s one of the reasons so many of my friends will not date or marry a man with a baby momma. They’ve been burned before. This was nothing to do with control and everything to do with her being upset at being cheated on and your fiance being weak. Maybe she wanted some revenge, maybe she wanted to make the cheater jealous, maybe she just wanted to feel desirable and gain some comfort from your fiance. Whatever it was, your fiance should have squashed anything inappropriate as firmly and kindly as possible and he didn’t.

I’m sure your man has some wonderful traits, but are they enough without trust? Because looking at the big picture as given by you regarding his behavior, I’m going to say that he cannot be trusted to be faithful under real life conditions. Every time it rains in your life together you’ll have to wonder if his umbrella is some other woman.

 

[MJJean]

The cast of characters and the drama both continue to grow. He does not seem like a good prospect for a really good marriage. To be blunt, he doesn’t seem to have the maturity or the emotional fidelity to do it. **If this is the way he’s treating you when your relationship is new and exciting, what is it going to be like when it isn’t? **It will not make his children happy for him to be married unless he’s a good husband. If he’s not, they’re better off if he stays unmarried, too, so don’t let them sway you in favor of marrying him. If anything, let their welfare sway you in favor of looking twice and then again before you jump. I think you are the only one who is serious about looking out for them.

If you were my friend, I’d be praying you break up with this guy. I’d want better for you.

All good points, but especially the bolded.

 

[Kiwiruckle]

Whoo-boy.

If you want my take, I’d say he started having doubts because he became interested in other women, not that he had doubts and then became interested in other women. And his doubts don’t matter. What matters is how he handled those doubts. And he handled them badly.

What really bothers me is that you say he “acted first” during his first marriage. I’m going to assume that means he cheated first. And the theory is that he cheated to strike first because he feared he would be or was being cheated on and was possibly hurting and in a bad spot for other reasons. You don’t mention cheating in the 2nd marriage or the relationship that resulted in his youngest child, so I’ll try to refrain from making any assumptions there. (But yeah, I’d be willing to bet he wasn’t entirely faithful to those women, either)

If you look at it as a big picture, it seems that he deals with doubts, insecurity, fear of being hurt/betrayed by cheating in one form or another and then blames circumstances instead of accepting personal responsibility for his choices. It also seems this is a well established pattern of behavior dating from his first marriage until at least September 2013.

In my first “marriage” I was depressed, felt hopeless, lonely, starved physically, emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually. I was in a pretty bad state. But the right way to deal with that would have been to end the marriage and remain chaste until the divorce was at least filed, preferably until it was final. And I failed to do that. I am not blaming the cruddy circumstances, my doubts, fears, or insecurities. I am saying that I made poor choices all on my own. That would be the kind of responsibility and recognition of a problem I would require of any divorced man who cheated on his ex before I would even considering a long term relationship and possibly marriage. If he isn’t honestly saying what he did wrong, understands why he did wrong, realizes that he should have handled it better, and will never allow himself to do that wrong again…run.

As for the baby momma…yeah, I’ve heard that same line about she is controlling/manipulative from literally every guy who has been busted cheating with baby momma that I have ever known. That’s one of the reasons so many of my friends will not date or marry a man with a baby momma. They’ve been burned before. This was nothing to do with control and everything to do with her being upset at being cheated on and your fiance being weak. Maybe she wanted some revenge, maybe she wanted to make the cheater jealous, maybe she just wanted to feel desirable and gain some comfort from your fiance. Whatever it was, your fiance should have squashed anything inappropriate as firmly and kindly as possible and he didn’t.

I’m sure your man has some wonderful traits, but are they enough without trust? Because looking at the big picture as given by you regarding his behavior, I’m going to say that he cannot be trusted to be faithful under real life conditions. Every time it rains in your life together you’ll have to wonder if his umbrella is some other woman.

No, what I was saying was that his wives messed up the marriages and he messed up the relationship with the youngest son’s mother.

 

[MJJean]

No, what I was saying was that his wives messed up the marriages and he messed up the relationship with the youngest son’s mother.

Ok, so the “acted first” was during his relationship with the baby momma. Do you know if he also cheated in the first marriages? You know he cheated on his baby’s mother and on you, making this an established pattern of cheating in committed relationships, but for how long? Also, what about other women he has dated? Was he faithful to them?

 

[Kiwiruckle]

Ok, so the “acted first” was during his relationship with the baby momma. Do you know if he also cheated in the first marriages? You know he cheated on his baby’s mother and on you, making this an established pattern of cheating in committed relationships, but for how long? Also, what about other women he has dated? Was he faithful to them?

I don’t think he cheated in his marriages. He was in Iraq for the majority of the second one and had to quit the Army due to her drug issues and his kids needing him.

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t think he cheated in his marriages. He was in Iraq for the majority of the second one and had to quit the Army due to her drug issues and his kids needing him.

Deployment can be very hard on military families. There are good people whose marriages don’t last through them. My concern is that he does not concentrate on one relationship with one woman at a time.

 

[Kiwiruckle]

Deployment can be very hard on military families. There are good people whose marriages don’t last through them. My concern is that he does not concentrate on one relationship with one woman at a time.

Yeah, me too. He did seem quite remorseful when I initially confronted him about what I found. But how remorseful can he really be if it happened more than once right? I want to be the forgiving type and all, but this is an area I am having difficulty moving past. I don’t want to fight the problem forever…he says he’d never take it to a physical relationship so I think he must think that he didn’t actually cheat and it felt almost the same as when my daughter’s father DID actually cheat. It was almost just as painful. He also says it won’t happen again, but it shouldn’t have happened to begin with imo.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah, me too. He did seem quite remorseful when I initially confronted him about what I found. But how remorseful can he really be if it happened more than once right? I want to be the forgiving type and all, but this is an area I am having difficulty moving past. I don’t want to fight the problem forever…he says he’d never take it to a physical relationship so I think he must think that he didn’t actually cheat and it felt almost the same as when my daughter’s father DID actually cheat. It was almost just as painful. He also says it won’t happen again, but it shouldn’t have happened to begin with imo.

He may be very remorseful. I don’t want to make him out to be a terrible guy. He may do far more with his capacities than I do, for all I know. I am concerned with whether he is exhibiting the habits of a man who can expect to be a good husband. He is not. He does not put your feelings first, he does not control himself with regards to letting a sexual element seep into relationships with women not his wife, and, let us be blunt, he has fathered children with three different women and it was the LAST one that was with a woman he hadn’t married. He’s not a fast learner, whatever he is, and he may lack the aptitude to learn and practice what he needs to learn and practice. He may have intellectually accepted it, but he doesn’t seem to believe that the “rules” actually apply to him, that he needs to put boundaries on himself.

A man with his past needs to have stepped back and really done some inner work to figure out where things went off the rails. As you know, “I chose badly” or “mistakes were made that unfortunately lead to casualties” do not count. I don’t see any evidence that he’s done that kind of work. He is several epiphanies away from being ready for marriage, and I don’t think he shows signs of doing the work to have them.

If you marry and you are happy, I would be happy for you. I’m just very skeptical. You can divorce a spouse, but exes are forever. He has too many as it is. Don’t become the next one.