Am I being unreasonable?

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I think it sounds like you are living a very unreasonable life. It also sounds like you have been cooperating with and supporting this life so long that it will take understanding in a new light and a well-determined plan to effect any change. I think telling a counselor about this will confirm that this is not a good way to live (or a good thing to have had modeled for your children) and a counselor can show you how you can make changes yourself that will bring about some healthier changes in the situation. I think its too big to take on yourself or just with advice from us on the forums. May God bless you and bring you His peace, and wisdom. :gopray2:
 
Also, I think Retrouvaille is great, and can really help - but I really think that seeing a counselor first who can help you see how bad the problem really is would help. Then when you are faced with the reality of realization of how impossibly big the problem really is, know that Retrouvaille is there to help really big marital problems!

Counseling for you, first, will help you eventually *truly *forgive him. Because you will probably be really angry when you realize how oppressing the marriage has been. And you have to know what you are mad about before you forgive, or it really isn’t forgiveness. The counselor will help you see reality, and Retrouvaille will help you heal reality.
 
Eliza10 said:
Counseling for you, first, will help you eventually *truly *forgive him. Because you will probably be really angry when you realize how oppressing the marriage has been. And you have to know what you are mad about before you forgive, or it really isn’t forgiveness. The counselor will help you see reality, and Retrouvaille will help you heal reality.
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I have to say…
What a load of pysch-pop nonsense!
**She seems to know why she is ticked off without help. It appears she should be ticked off at herself. She is not a victim here. There is no oppressor other than herself. SO far, the worst thing her dh needs forgiveness for is being lazy and maybe inconsiderate or rude. The rest is all her, imho. **
**She does need to deal with reality. **
**Reality is: No one can make her do anything she doesn’t want to do. **
Reality is: She is not a puppet master who can make others (such as grown men and teenagers she has helped to raise!) do things they do not want to do.
By all means, I agree counseling may help. But if what she really wants is to be told what a poor victim she is to be married to such an ungratefull dh and to have such disrespectful kids - well I don’t know as that will do anyone any good. In fact, I’ve seen it ruin marriages.
Ideally, what this couple needs is a neutral party to step in and refuse to take sides. To insist they BOTH forgive each other and they BOTH love each other - annoying warts and all that I’m sure they BOTH have.
**Countrylifer - **
I have no doubt you are truely unhappy with the situation. I disagree that it is dh and dc fault though.
 
countrylifer, your husband sounds like he has a pretty good situation. He does what he likes. He spends what he likes. He answers to no one. He has no responsibilities to his home or his family except to earn an income, and any objection to the contrary is easily dismissed. Why would he want to change? Altruism?

Whether or not you like it, each and every decision that you made brought you to where you are right now. For whatever reason, you allowed it to happen. Own up to it. Accept responsibility. Then accept that no one seems to have a problem with the status quo but you. If there is ever going to be change, you have to make it.

Are you being unreasonable? That’s a trick question. It is not unreasonable to want respect and consideration from your spouse and children. It is unreasonable to live by a set of rules for almost 20 years and then expect to change them simply because you can’t handle them anymore.

I highly recommend that you get some professional help. You need to know why you resigned yourself to being the family doormat for two decades. You need to learn new ways of dealing with the problems that you face. Its a matter of having the right tools for the job and a good support system.

Until then, focus on the positive. Be strong. Visualize where you want to be and then go there, one baby step at a time.
 
Wow, 20 yrs of this…you must be a saint…or a martyr. My guess is martyr. Not trying to make you mad but do you really think this is good for the kids or dh? Kids need to learn responsibility to grow up. My kids have had chores since they were 8 or 9 and have been doing their own laundry since about 11. My oldest is 19 and living in another town for college, ds is 17 and dd is 15. When they want to do something other than go to school they have to ask at least 2 days in advance and if they need a ride, it better be sooner than that. They also know not to even ask if chores aren’t done. DH is conditioned helpless at this point because you never gave him the responsibility of caring for his children at all. He does have 2 hands and feet doesn’t he? I mean he is capable to drive, cook dinner, pick up the phone and order a pizza if need be right? They are his kids too…

If you ever want any of this to change here is what I suggest:
  1. Make up a chore list with times and tasks for the kids
  2. Tell DH when you will be absent from the house and clearly outline what needs to be done when you are gone (i.e. dinner for kids, checking chores, throwing clothes in the dryer, etc.)
  3. Have the kids decide on their own consequences if they don’t do chores, with your guidance of course. Things like if chores aren’t done, child cannot leave the house for anything except school and mass. Write it all down, have kids sign it like a contract. Make it so DH or you has to check it off everyday. Ask DH to check it on days/times you are at work.
  4. Stick to new chore list!!! Consistency is everything here! Also make sure to reming DH to check it or the kids can’t go out or do things… If they ask you for something ask if chores are done AND checked. They will start seeking out the checker so they can go out…
  5. Schedule 1 day a week to go do something you want to do… Whether it is shopping, a manicure, a ceramics class… whatever and stick to it. DH and Kids will get the idea that is your time and not to bug you during that time or not to count on you during that time. Taking some sort of class is best because it is a scheduled thing.
  6. Re-evaluate and modify after a set period of time just to tweak the schedule.
 
I don’t think it’s fair to call Countylifer a martyr. She did what is expected of women in our world. She played by the rules and didn’t end up with a fair deal. She came here looking for support and reassurance that her anger and hurt are justified.

I’m angry that she’s had to put up with this mistreatment from her husband but I don’t see it as her fault. She doesn’t cause him to mistreat her. He chooses to do it. To say she let him do it is too simplistic for me. Many women are in the same spot she is because of the expectations of women in our society. Calling them martyrs is only victimizing them again.

Countrylifer, the problem is where do you go from here? Your husband has been in control of you and it sounds like he isn’t about to relinquish that control. His anger and brushing you off is part of how he controls you.

I think you need support. Maybe you want to go to counseling on your own first. Or try reading some books about dealing with controlling people like Boundaries by Cloud/Townsend:
amazon.com/Boundaries-Dr-Henry-Cloud/dp/0310585902
scroll down to read the reviews.

I doubt you can just continue on as you have been. I think you’re coming to some realizations that aren’t going to be able to continue to be swept under the carpet.

My prayers go out ot you. I know how difficult it is when dealing with loved ones who are controlling and dismissive of your feelings.

crystal
 
crystal said:
I don’t think it’s fair to call Countylifer a martyr. She did what is expected of women in our world. She played by the rules and didn’t end up with a fair deal. She came here looking for support and reassurance that her anger and hurt are justified.

I’m angry that she’s had to put up with this mistreatment from her husband but I don’t see it as her fault. She doesn’t cause him to mistreat her. He chooses to do it. To say she let him do it is too simplistic for me. Many women are in the same spot she is because of the expectations of women in our society. Calling them martyrs is only victimizing them again.

Countrylifer, the problem is where do you go from here? Your husband has been in control of you and it sounds like he isn’t about to relinquish that control. His anger and brushing you off is part of how he controls you.

I think you need support. Maybe you want to go to counseling on your own first. Or try reading some books about dealing with controlling people like Boundaries by Cloud/Townsend:
amazon.com/Boundaries-Dr-Henry-Cloud/dp/0310585902
scroll down to read the reviews.

I doubt you can just continue on as you have been. I think you’re coming to some realizations that aren’t going to be able to continue to be swept under the carpet.

My prayers go out ot you. I know how difficult it is when dealing with loved ones who are controlling and dismissive of your feelings.

crystal
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I wonder if you expected to be taken to task here?

I was in this same type of marriage for about 15 years. I started out “sacrificing” my career for the sake of his and he was fine with that. Then kids that were totally my responsibility, and eventually a younger woman with business contacts. If I tried to talk to him about how I felt, he’d tell me that if I could make as much money as he did, I should get a job and he’d stay home with the kids and do nothing all day.

Your kids need to meet their new best friends, the washer and dryer. Then introduce them to the stove and refrigerator. Then retire from public service. When you get home, make yourself dinner, take care of your needs. Find your activity…maybe something social like a choir or chorus or some kind of crafty thing or exercise class. Then do it. They’re all old enough to fend for themselves.

I’m not goint to blame you. I did the same thing because that’s what I thought I was supposed to do. Both my parents gave 110% to their marriage and our family, and I thought that’s what everyone did. It took a while to realize all the compromise was on my part.

You can only control what you do, so that’s where to start. I’ll be thinking of you and praying for you. Don’t beat yourself up about this. Even if you made your bed, you don’t have to keep sleeping in it. Change the sheets! Deb
 
countrylifer said:
What is your suggestion? It is as much my fault as his for letting it go on this long, but, he has known all along that I wasn’t pleased with the way things were going, and made no effort to talk about it…cause after all “she’ll get over it”. He comes from a long line of hard headed men that did what they wanted and when they wanted. Confronting him, usually only makes it worse. He did encourage me to go out with friends, to travel some, but when I did he was an inconvenience for him, or he complained about all the money he had to give me. So, I guess, as you put it I made my bed…and I will accept the blame for allowing him to do what he wanted…I guess that was what he envisioned marriage to be, and he went with it…
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Hi countrylifer!

I hope I did not poke at you too hard. I kind of dropped by this thread then headed on so my post may have come across as too finger-pointy.

The situation that you present is pretty complicated regarding a family dynamic and it is not one that I envy. Your husband has no excuse and cannot use you as one. You did what you thought was best; you braved out an unhappy relationship for the sake of marriage and kids. That might not have been the best option, but it is good to focus on here and now, and where you will take this.

You ask what to do, well, this is my advice:
  1. Tell him calmly and directly that you are unhappy with the relationship and unhappy with how he has treated you and/or the kids. This is not confrontation or blaming, but rather a direct statement. If you fell uncomfortable doing this, then plan for an intervention and seek the witness of an unbiased professional to sit you both down and say it.
  2. Tell him it is time to find a good Catholic therapist. Go do it. If you need links or recommendations, people on this thread may know or PM me and I will do some digging around.
  3. Start getting a neutral, unbiased and open meeting place set up weekly or even daily if you can afford it.
What I hear over and over again in your posts is that he does things without your agreement. He is doing or not doing things that hurt you and that you do not agree to. Not having enthusiastic agreement is tantamount to saying: I care about what’s good for ME only and I don’t care about how you feel. To say that to a woman is doubly hurtful! So I do feel for you and I hope that your hubby realizes this is once and for all his chance to step up to the plate.

Maybe just learning and practicing some techniques for communication will clear this up. That is the best case scenario. It could be that he is hard headed and insensitive, that is a guy thing, right? So with a little help you guys can start working together in a unified fashion to meet both of your needs and all will be bliss.

Or, worst case scenario he has multiple issues and/or really doesn’t care about you or love you. That is something that will take much personal reflection and prayer to decide on what to do.

Either way, until you get an oppurtunity to speak with him completely in the clear with someone to guide the process, things probably won’t change.
 
Are you being unreasonable?
Very possibly. We don’t know your husbands side of things.

It is painfully apparent your husband emotionally disengaged himself from you many years ago. That’s why he doesn’t particularly care if you’re pleased by his actions, or lack thereof. It’s low level, passive aggressive behavior.

There are generally only two reasons this happens, in my experience.

One, he really is all the things women habitually accuse men of being…(always the favored reason with the ladies).

Two, he’s not willing to destroy his household, but he’s concluded at a very deep level that talking to you about what he wants in the marriage is not just worthless, but counter productive depending on your rhetorical skills (women are generally much stronger in that area than men).
 
So, Onesimus, what would one do about this? We are talking with a woman of good will, but who feels stymied. Many of us can identify with her, but stating reasons and identifying don’t help with figuring out where to go from here. Any suggestions?
 
katy said:
…Many of us can identify with her, but stating reasons and identifying don’t help with figuring out where to go from here. Any suggestions?
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Sure, but I expect that less than one American woman in a hundred that has the problem will accept the solution.

Read Dr. Laura Schlesinger’s book “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands,” and read it with the assumption she’s right, because she is…
 
Onesimus said:
Read Dr. Laura Schlesinger’s book “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands,” and read it with the assumption she’s right, because she is…
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I was going to suggest “Fascinating Womanhood.”
 
Maybe Mr. Husband could read a book about the proper care and feeding of the wife! She’s not dancing a solo here. A good marriage takes effort on both sides.

I would start with some counselling for myself. If he’s willing to go, all the better. Look for a nice priest in the area who’s good at marriage counselling.
 
My suggestions would be start preparing your children to be adults. They are 15 and 18. They need to learn how to use common household appliances for their own sakes. They will be out of the house soon. Enjoy them in the next couple of years but prepare them for life.

Next I would say start saving money. If you can pick up an hour or two of extra part-time work, do so and save the money in a personal account of yours. I doubt that you will be happy with your partner after the children are gone from the house, but see if you can. If you two can find a modus vivendi after the children are out on their own, then good, you’ll have some savings to be able to cultivate other interests. If you can’t find a way of living together, then use the money to move out and get on with your life, though that will entail likely having to take full time work and sacrifice on your part. You’ll have to decide if your marriage is that bad at that time.
 
Our kids are older now, and it’s always me having to get after them to help with chores. Making me the bad guy. He comes home and sits, while I do things around the house, and doesn’t give me any support when I’m fighting with the kids for help.
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Did you call Dr. Ray the other day? I heard a lady with almost the SAME story call in! Dr. Ray suggested this and I personally think it is a great idea.

The kids are from now on required to do all of their own chores. This includes cleaning their rooms, picking up after themselves laundry etc. Sit down with them and calmly discuss the new rules. For instance, if they don’t want to do the laundry you are NOT under any circumstance going to wash or dry their clothes for them. If they continue to refuse to do their chores then they owe you 2.00 for every chore not completed and for every day that goes by that it is not completed. Until they pay up AND do the chore you are on STRIKE! COMPLETE STRIKE!! Also for example, if they are to clean their rooms and refuse to do it…they may NOT use YOUR laundry detergent that YOU pay for or YOUR electricity that YOU pay for. Pretty soon they should get a clue that life is pretty touch without mom. Also, you do NOT use YOUR gas in YOUR vehicle to take them anywhere! They must find a way to get across the 60 miles into town on their own unless and if only they do the chores. Put this into action!! You can do it!!
 
daeve said:
Maybe Mr. Husband could read a book about the proper care and feeding of the wife! She’s not dancing a solo here. A good marriage takes effort on both sides…
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If there’s one thing NOT lacking in this country, it’s venues for women to aire their grievances over men. Men have no such voice, and even if they did, they’d be at a severe disadvantage due to women’s superior rhetorical skills. If a woman is “right” because she won an argument with a man, then a man should be “right” if he can beat her at arm wrestling.

You say she’s not dancing solo here, but who do you think she expects to get to determine how much help is “enough?”
 
Onesimus said:
If there’s one thing NOT lacking in this country, it’s venues for women to aire their grievances over men. Men have no such voice, and even if they did, they’d be at a severe disadvantage due to women’s superior rhetorical skills. If a woman is “right” because she won an argument with a man, then a man should be “right” if he can beat her at arm wrestling.

You say she’s not dancing solo here, but who do you think she expects to get to determine how much help is “enough?”
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I’m not sure how to respond, since I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Men don’t have a forum? Why not? This is a forum right here. You want to air grievances…we’ll listen. I’ll even be nice to you if I disagree with you.

My point is that marriage is a partnership, and both parties have to put time, effort and energy into it. Compromises are needed on both sides, not just hers. She’s made some typical choices and now she’s not happy with them. Suggesting she reads a book or whatever is great, but he has to participate in solving the problems or it won’t work.

Who decides what’s enough? The one looking for something. If he was the one looking for something, he’d be the one to decide what was enough.

But I don’t think everyone is saying it’s all his fault – not at all. In fact, I think some of us have been a little harsh in criticizing her. This is a joint issue that requires work on the part of both parties. The trick is getting that to happen.
 
My mother asked my father to cook supper and pitch in around the house by doing a few chores when he retired and she was still working part-time, but he just “forgot” to do anything. He could remember to go have fun with his friends and hobbies. He could make it to the couch to watch TV for hours on end. He could yell to the door, “what’s for dinner?” as soon as Mom walked into the door.

Finally when her school year ended she calmly announced that she was going several states away to visit family (his parents actually) and that she would be back when she felt like it or when school started (in 3 months). My sisters and Dad were left on their own to cook or starve, to do laundry or wear dirty clothes, etc.

Dad called almost daily but Mom was almost always “out” with his relatives having fun. (His mother’s advice.) After 2 weeks he could not stand it. He called me to come home and stay with my sisters. He flew back East to apologize and to “help” Mom drive home.

It is never too late to put your foot down and get some meaningful changes in your home. My parents had been married more than 20 years at that point and now it has been over 40 years. If Mom had just suffered along, it would have been 20 more years of nonsense.
 
Whether or not you like it, each and every decision that you made brought you to where you are right now. For whatever reason, you allowed it to happen. Own up to it. Accept responsibility. Then accept that no one seems to have a problem with the status quo but you. If there is ever going to be change, you have to make it.
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I agree that if this has been a problem for as long as the marriage has existed, countrylifer should have said something before now…it has gone on for too long.
That doesn’t mean that it has to remain that way. I’d tell your husband honestly that you don’t feel comfortable in the present situation and that you realize that things have been that way for years, but things have got to change, and you feel the need for counseling-you also need to crack down on getting the kids to do chores…put your foot down and don’t make any exceptions.
 
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