Am I culpable for this sin?

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Elf01 said:
I thought the signing of the papers was a civil thing.
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At the weddings I’ve been to, including my own the papers are signed at the time of the wedding and the parish looks after the paperwork etc, so at the time I was writing that, it was from a Catholic perspective - I missed the sentence about being married by a Methodist minister etc.

Do they not have the parties sign the wedding certificate as well as the legal civil papers?
 
CRV said:
Do they not have the parties sign the wedding certificate as well as the legal civil papers?
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That’s what I wasn’t sure about. Even if so, if the marriage is valid, what is the issue with signing them?
 
Oh. In the US bridal parties usually have a best man , maid of honor. They usually are the witnesses, but I was at a wedding once that had two different set of witnesses.

Then there are bridesmaids and groomsmen. They don’t sign anything.
 
Miiiils said:
Lets say I am in a wedding party of a bride and groom sleep who live together before marriage.

If someone in the audience begins to sleep together and follow the example set by the bride and groom, am I culpable or am I showing support for such action?

Lets say I have shared with the groom that I don’t support those things.

Thanks and God bless!
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Culpability occurs only for what one is responsible for. Responsibility requires that an act or omission be voluntary.

Catechism
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.

1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
- by protecting evil-doers.
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Elf01 said:
That’s what I wasn’t sure about. Even if so, if the marriage is valid, what is the issue with signing them?
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My concern was the poster being a signatory witness and signing in front of others - possibly giving scandal if it was known that he was Catholic (oh, I thought Catholics only believed in marriage in their Church, it mus be ok then for Catholics to participate/witness etc etc), and/or there were other Catholics also attending. The possibility of giving scandal was a concern of the op too, though not due to the witnessing of a non-Catholic marriage.
 
Yes, the best man on the grooms side is first in line, and I thought it was the bridesmaid or if more than one, the head bridesmaid were witnesses. More groomsmen and bridesmaid in the party weren’t and so no, didn’t sign anything. I’ve always understood the term ‘maid of honor’ to be a married older lady be it a relative or friend who is a bridesmaid too, but as is married is called a maid of honor. Perhaps, I’ve also had that wrong. (Only attended two other weddings apart from my own).
 
Maid of honor is a single woman. Matron of honor is a married woman.
 
🤣😂🤣 … ah, yes, of course… thanks for poking my grey cells… now I remember. Apologies for getting the terms confused. You’re right, but I had matron of honor in my mind. Thanks for setting that straight. 🙂
 
No. No problem. These sorts of things vary from culture to culture and country to country.
 
??? Catholics may be part of a wedding party where either/both are non Catholic, even non-Christian.
 
Non Catholics, non Christians enter perfectly valid marriages every day.

There is no canonical reason that Catholics may not be part of these weddings, be witnesses, sign as witnesses and give the toast.
 
Ah, that “voluntary” part has been tripping me up. For example, if someone is gossiping at work, and I hear it, I’m not culpable by not doing anything. But if I was in their conversation and they asked me if I agreed, and I said nothing or just deferred to someone else, that would be a voluntary omission.

Am I reading this correctly?
 
There is no sin whatsoever in attending a wedding where you know the bride and groom had pre marital relations with each other. It would take a lot of mental gymnastics to say otherwise. For all you know, they confessed it, stopped and are being good the week of the wedding. Even if they have not, it still does not change that it’s not a sin to attend the wedding.
 
You’re helping them to get married and end whatever sinful sex they might have been having with each other. In other words, helping them do the right thing, get out of sin and into marriage.

I’m not seeing any issue like one of the couple being not free to marry, or one of the couple being a Catholic who is marrying outside the Church.

In short you’re not committing any sin at all.
 
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“Non Catholics, non Christians enter perfectly valid marriages every day.” Yes, valid under natural law.
TheLittleLady said:
??? Catholics may be part of a wedding party where either/both are non Catholic, even non-Christian.
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Due to my concerns of giving scandal - not everyone is up to date with the Churchs viewpoint on such matters, nor on whether Catholics can or cannot attend other Faith services (otherwise if people were the OP for one would not be here asking the question), nor even very much on the Faith at all. All of which is very very obvious to me just by conversing with friends, others at Church, and family, so I thought base on this there was a possibility of giving scandal.

The OP was initially concerned about giving scandal wrt the couples’ prior living arrangements etc, all of which I addressed in my posts. The only other possible scenario that came to my mind was giving scandal in signing papers. And not all the key points were stated in the first posts, but were stated in following posts after questions were asked, so relevant info only came to light in dribs and drabs. At first I assumed the friend was possibly Catholic until a later post stating that wasn’t the case. So I was also trying to cover all bases at each point based on what info I had, not after reading all posts and therefore having all info on which to comment. I also said in one of my posts wrt the signing of papers + scandal etc (post #17 that I honestly didn’t know if it is or isn’t). And in the same post I also linked to a post by InThePew concerning attending non-Catholic Events which helped to clarify matters for both the OP and myself, though I did point out Fathers comment didn’t mention being a member of the wedding party nor being a witness.

So rather than mislead someone and say it’s perfectly ok, and myself not knowing whether it was or wasn’t - I was erring on the side of caution, admitted I wasn’t sure, linked to a priests’ article, asked if the OP had consulted their own priest on the matter.

Apologies if my best efforts didn’t meet your standard.
 
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History and reality show that people are eminently capable of and do make decisions as to fornication without having to be prompted by a bride and groom. If someone should make the choice to do so because of what the bride and groom have done in the past, that decision was likely made that way even without their example.

Further, you do not know the spiritual status of the bride and groom’s souls as of the day of the wedding, and it is not your place to judge that. If you choose to not go to the wedding, that is perfectly fine; it is not fine to use that aw a “weapon” now or in the future with them.
 
CRV said:
“Non Catholics, non Christians enter perfectly valid marriages every day.” Yes, valid under natural law.
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Non Catholics who are both validly baptized with no impediments (prior marriage, etc.) enter a valid Sacramental marriage.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Non Catholics, non Christians enter perfectly valid marriages every day.
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My reply was to a comment of yours, in which you said “non Catholics, non Christians” - therefore not baptized, therefore valid under natural law.

Unfortunately my ‘quoting’ as above didn’t transfer, so I just put it in quotes “…” So it wasn’t a comment of mine, but I was quoting you from post #30
 
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