Am I going to Hell for being a Father?

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Chefboy

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Hello,

I have come to this site in search of information concerning my marriage and religion. I have been a Catholic since I was a baby and babtized. I guess I could have been Jewish, Muslim or some other religion but as it turned out both of my parents were Catholics and that was my primary source of information as a child.

My early years as an adult were spent in what any religion would consider SINFUL. Mostly partying, having sex with as many girls as possible and all in all just not that close with Jesus. As I have grown into middle age I now find myself going to church on a regular basis and living what I believe to be a rather sincere and good life in the presence of Jesus. I still sin but my sins now are mostly just small. Loss of patience, Lords name in Vain, etc…etc…

Yesterday at Church our Priest gave a sermon on the Feast of Corpus Christi and reminded the congregation that we had to be in a state of grace before receiving Holy Communion. I had known this for many years but somehow just filed it away as something I did not want to deal with. HMMMM…That was the easy way out since I live in ‘SIN’ according to the Catholic Church.

You see, my wife was previously married to a man that cheated on her. He did not just cheat once but he moved out with another woman basically abandoning her with their three year old daughter. The Catholic Church on two ocassions has told her that the marriage can not be annuled.

So here I am seven years into our marriage and once again I am being reminded of the fact that I am living in Sin. I am additionally reminded that I can not receive Holy Communion. I really feel at a loss and I am now wondering what the Catholic Church recommends I should do. Divorce my wife in Civilian Court to save my soul or continue living in sin and perish in hell? I failed to mention that my wife and I have two beautiful children together in additon to my beautiful step daughter. Wow, maybe I should have continued partying! Afterall, that was not as bad of a sin as committing adultry on a daily basis.
 
first, don’t take communion if you are still having sex with your wife. .

you can take communion and remain married if you confess your sin and stop having marital relations with your wife. then neither of you would be sinning. you could continue to live with one another and raise your children but it would become a brother/sister type relationship.

yes, that would be a very big burden on you and you will be in my prayers.

what was the exact reason that you were given for not being granted an annulement.
 
You need to speak to a priest. You must fix this situation, and if that means living a platonic relationship with your wife then that is your cross to bear. Above all, don’t trivialize the reality of hell. And if you are receiving Communion while in a state of mortal sin, you must stop until you have been absolved. Every sacrilegious Communion is just further hurt and pain for Our Lord.
 
You would not go to Hell for being a Father.
You would go to Hell for being obstinate in sin.

You and your wife need to talk to a priest and rectify your situation. Additionally, go to Confession.
 
Have you talked to your wife about getting an annulment? Even if she is not Catholic, you should consider asking that she pursue it.
 
Oh, and the only person who can determine the ultimate destination of your soul is God.
 
In short you’re not going to Hell for being a father, though you may possibly do so for living in sin with a woman who in the eyes of God is still married to another. If you don’t repent and/or seek to regularise your relationship.

Possibly an annulment can be done without the participation of her first husband if he decides to be difficult. Although if he’s taken up with another woman he’s more likely to co-operate.

Remember, even if her husband has been unfaithful, there is a third party in their marriage - GOD, before whom she took her vows to her first husband, and meant them. And God certainly intends those vows to be binding for life, and will not be mocked.

Don’t despair, pray for guidance and consult your priest to find out what you can do about the situation.
 
hopefully the original poster of this thread will return. i would like to know if we have helped him any.
 
Well, not having sex with my wife would be like asking a priest to stop loving God the Father. So please, try and be informative rather than make a mockery of my marriage. My marriage is real. When you tell me I should stop having sex with my wife that is basically saying that my children are illegitamate and therefore I never should have had them. As for the comment about being trivial with hell my response would be for the community to stop being trivial with my family and the condemnation that the church is placing on my wife and I.

If someone could provide references to the bible where it dictates that I am living in sin that would be rather useful, otherwise please refrain from making comments without supporting evidence. I would think that any normal and reasonable individual would find that fair, dont you?
 
Chefboy said:
Well, not having sex with my wife would be like asking a priest to stop loving God the Father. So please, try and be informative rather than make a mockery of my marriage. My marriage is real. When you tell me I should stop having sex with my wife that is basically saying that my children are illegitamate and therefore I never should have had them. As for the comment about being trivial with hell my response would be for the community to stop being trivial with my family and the condemnation that the church is placing on my wife and I.

If someone could provide references to the bible where it dictates that I am living in sin that would be rather useful, otherwise please refrain from making comments without supporting evidence. I would think that any normal and reasonable individual would find that fair, dont you?
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If you know your Bible, then you know that Christ gave the Apostles, and their successors our church leaders, the authority to bind and loose on moral issues - ‘whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven, whatsoever you loose on earth is loosed in heaven’ (Matthew 16:19) and ‘who hears you hears me, who rejects you rejects me’ (Luke 10:16).

Your wife stood together with her first husband in front of God, and swore to take him as her husband and forsake all others but him as long as both he and she are alive. Good times and bad, sickness and health and so on.

That vow doesn’t permit of an automatic exception for infidelity on his part - or hers. As I said, the vow was made as a covenant between her and God as well as between her and her husband.

The husband can ignore its existence, so can she and you. God won’t and doesn’t. What we say on oath to Him, He expects us to fulfil as far as it is possible for us. There’s nothing trivial about the marital vows she took with her first husband before God, nor about God’s requirement that she stick to them and remain faithful to her first husband.

So long as her first husband is still alive, her vow to forsake all others remains in force. So yes, she is committing adultery by having a relationship with you. I don’t doubt that you love each other, but that does not give you an automatic right to live in a marital relationship.

I love my siblings, my parents, my workmates, and many many other people very deeply. Doesn’t mean I can consider myself married to any of them but one, my husband. And to him I am married as long as we are both alive.

I’m sorry, but your marriage is not a valid one in the eyes of God nor the Church, which He has given the power to regulate marriage. I’m not mocking you or your relationship by saying this. I am sure you love each other, I’m sure it feels like a real marriage to you. It simply isn’t. And I think deep down you know that or it wouldn’t be pricking your conscience right now.

If the Church won’t grant an annulment, then there is no way you can in the future be married to her either. She is still bound by her vows to her first husband. Please, love her enough to try to protect her immortal soul - don’t drag her around in this life of sin any more. Leave her if you have to, fulfil your obligations to your children, be their father, but don’t continue your relationship with her.
 
LilyM said:
Your wife stood together with her first husband in front of God, and swore to take him as her husband and forsake all others but him as long as both he and she are alive. Good times and bad, sickness and health and so on.
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Errr. How do you know the circumstances of the her first wedding? It may have been a civil ceremony or handfasting for all we know.
That vow doesn’t permit of an automatic exception for infidelity on his part - or hers. As I said, the vow was made as a covenant between her and God as well as between her and her husband.
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I know of annulments that were granted in the case of infidelity.
I’m sorry, but your marriage is not a valid one in the eyes of God nor the Church, which He has given the power to regulate marriage. I’m not mocking you or your relationship by saying this. I am sure you love each other, I’m sure it feels like a real marriage to you. It simply isn’t. And I think deep down you know that or it wouldn’t be pricking your conscience right now.
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Again, you seem to assume much. How can we know, on the basis of three posts, what is a valid marriage and an invalid marriage?
If the Church won’t grant an annulment, then there is no way you can in the future be married to her either. She is still bound by her vows to her first husband. Please, love her enough to try to protect her immortal soul - don’t drag her around in this life of sin any more. Leave her if you have to, fulfil your obligations to your children, be their father, but don’t continue your relationship with her.
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Wow. Ummmm. Can we lay off a bit? There are hundreds of possible scenarios here - we don’t know all the facts and we don’t know the entirety of the situation so to throwing phrases like “don’t drag her around in this life of sin anymore.” is a bit presumptuous.
 
LilyM said:
Your wife stood together with her first husband in front of God, and swore to take him as her husband and forsake all others but him as long as both he and she are alive. Good times and bad, sickness and health and so on.
Click to expand...
Errr. How do you know the circumstances of the her first wedding? It may have been a civil ceremony or handfasting for all we know.
That vow doesn’t permit of an automatic exception for infidelity on his part - or hers. As I said, the vow was made as a covenant between her and God as well as between her and her husband.
Click to expand...
I know of annulments that were granted in the case of infidelity.
I’m sorry, but your marriage is not a valid one in the eyes of God nor the Church, which He has given the power to regulate marriage. I’m not mocking you or your relationship by saying this. I am sure you love each other, I’m sure it feels like a real marriage to you. It simply isn’t. And I think deep down you know that or it wouldn’t be pricking your conscience right now.
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Again, you seem to assume much. How can we know, on the basis of three posts, what is a valid marriage and an invalid marriage?
If the Church won’t grant an annulment, then there is no way you can in the future be married to her either. She is still bound by her vows to her first husband. Please, love her enough to try to protect her immortal soul - don’t drag her around in this life of sin any more. Leave her if you have to, fulfil your obligations to your children, be their father, but don’t continue your relationship with her.
Click to expand...
Wow. Ummmm. Can we lay off a bit? There are hundreds of possible scenarios here - we don’t know all the facts and we don’t know the entirety of the situation so to throwing phrases like “don’t drag her around in this life of sin anymore.” is a bit presumptuous. Furthermore, to be giving advise like “leave the mother” is off base.
 
cheese_sdc said:
Errr. How do you know the circumstances of the her first wedding? It may have been a civil ceremony or handfasting for all we know.
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Well given that an annulment has TWICE been refused, as the OP states, we can safely assume that the Church views her marriage as valid and indissoluble. Means the marriage has the same status and consequences as if they’d been married in the Church regardless of whether they actually have or not. The Church does on occasion recognise the validity of civil unions or marriages in other religions.

Put it this way - would you say that a Catholic has free licence to commit perjury in court if they merely make a civil affirmation rather than swearing by God? No - either way they’ve taken oath, (I say before God because you can be sure He’s noticed what you swear to, whether or not you swear by Him, whether or not you even believe in Him!) and all oaths are to be taken seriously for the most part.
I know of annulments that were granted in the case of infidelity.
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This should only happen in cases where the infidelity points to incorrect intent at the time the vows were taken. If such were the case here, the annulment would have been granted rather than twice being refused.
Again, you seem to assume much. How can we know, on the basis of three posts, what is a valid marriage and an invalid marriage?
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We know that the church, which has the power to bind and loose, has twice opined on the validity of the marriage in its eyes. And twice determined it to be valid. This should pretty much settle the matter, no?
Wow. Ummmm. Can we lay off a bit? There are hundreds of possible scenarios here - we don’t know all the facts and we don’t know the entirety of the situation so to throwing phrases like “don’t drag her around in this life of sin anymore.” is a bit presumptuous. Furthermore, to be giving advise like “leave the mother” is off base.
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You know that validity of a marriage is presumed until it’s proven otherwise, right? And rightly so - marriage is a serious thing and most people DO enter into it with serious intent. Neither is it lightly to be broken or annulled.

And you know that most priests will, as they should, advise people, for this reason, not even to date anyone else until they’ve obtained an annulment. Because in the absence of an annulment THEY ARE STILL CONSIDERED VALIDLY MARRIED TO THEIR FIRST SPOUSE and shouldn’t even be dating.

So to even be dating a woman who is married to another and in the process of obtaining an annulment is a sin against the marital vows, albeit not a mortal one. Having relations with her and children by her - well that IS a sin. Whether it’s mortal or not depends on a lot of factors. Either way it can’t be encouraged to continue.
 
Cheese, you sound very close minded on this issue. Im extremely uncertain as to why you are so close minded and readily willing to submit yourself to the authority of the church without questioning the doctrine in order to have a full understanding of your own faith. For me that is like following blindly.

Mathew 16:19 and Luke 10:16 basically establishes the Catholic Church. If we take this literally for everything in life then how would you explain the Dark Ages of the Church? How would you explain the priests in our church who have failed in their ministries. It really makes you think doesn’t it?

I am glad to have found this forum. The validity of my marriage has always bothered me as I have known that the church does not recognize it. Like I said before, I had somewhat compartmentalized this in my mind in order to rear my children as Catholics and to participate in The Holy Eucharist. The Feast of Corpus Christi this past Sunday reminded me that the Church does not recognize the marriage and that I should not be receiving Holy Communion which is a means to Everlasting Life.

So I have to convince the Church to recognize my marriage. If you know of any doctrine that will help me do this then why dont you share it with me rather then condemn my marriage and berate me as a man dragging around my wife in “SIN”.
 
No not if you are repentant but you have to decide who’s more important to you.the Living God in the Eucharist or the Idol of sex.

You probably can have your situation rectified with the Church your wife getting a decree of anullment or at least seek it.

Look upon the time it takes as an opportunity to do penace for your past sins but do not despair. God is infinitly merciful.
 
Chefboy said:
Cheese, you sound very close minded on this issue. Im extremely uncertain as to why you are so close minded and readily willing to submit yourself to the authority of the church without questioning the doctrine in order to have a full understanding of your own faith. For me that is like following blindly.

Mathew 16:19 and Luke 10:16 basically establishes the Catholic Church. If we take this literally for everything in life then how would you explain the Dark Ages of the Church? How would you explain the priests in our church who have failed in their ministries. It really makes you think doesn’t it?

I am glad to have found this forum. The validity of my marriage has always bothered me as I have known that the church does not recognize it. Like I said before, I had somewhat compartmentalized this in my mind in order to rear my children as Catholics and to participate in The Holy Eucharist. The Feast of Corpus Christi this past Sunday reminded me that the Church does not recognize the marriage and that I should not be receiving Holy Communion which is a means to Everlasting Life.

So I have to convince the Church to recognize my marriage. If you know of any doctrine that will help me do this then why dont you share it with me rather then condemn my marriage and berate me as a man dragging around my wife in “SIN”.
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I think you’re referring to me rather than cheese 🙂

And yes, the Church DOES have authority over marriage as over all the other sacraments. Recognising this is not blindness, it’s acceptance of legitimate authority which was given to the Church by God.

I’m not saying by this that individual priests or bishops can’t err, if you think they’ve been wrong in this case then by all means try again if you think it’ll help.

After two refusals of annulment it is much more likely, however, that they’re correctly interpreting and using the guidelines the Church has set as to determining whether a marriage is valid or not.

And it’s likely too that third and subsequent attempts to get an annulment are going to be equally unsuccesful. Hard truth it may be, but true nonetheless. And you need to face the fact that the Church may never BE willing to recognise the validity of your marriage because it may not be a valid one.

Certainly nothing you’ve given us suggests that it was invalid. The behaviour of her first husband may be a factor, assuming that this information was given in previous applications and discounted, it seems not to be.

For starters was it a marriage in the Catholic church or another Christian church, or was it a civil ceremony? Even so, the Church can and does sometimes recognise the validity of civil marriages. The main question is how seriously the parties themselves took the vows at the time they spoke them.
 
Ok, I think I may have found something that will help me. Its called “Internal forum solution”. Apparently Bernard Siegle gives an example of what a person does when he or she knows a marriage is invalid but cannot prove it in a public ecclesiastical court. Siegle provides an example of this in “Marriage According to the New Canon Law.”

Exhibit:
Catholic Questions, Wise Answers, Michael J Daley, copyright 2002 pg 389-390

A woman knows that in truth her marriage was/is invalid by divine law. Her partner never intended to enter a genuine permanent union with her and be faithful to her to death. But she cannot prove that in a church tribunal. The husband is gone. He would not be willing to give testimony in a church tribunal. There are no letters written before the marriage in which he tells someone what he is doing. there are no people in whom he confided who are willing to testify.

If he were to come back for a day or week in these circumstances and she had marital relations with him , she would in fact and in conscience be guilty of fornication! They are not actually married.

But without evidence and proof of the real facts, a church tribunal cannot pronounce the marriage invalid. The common good demands that courts (church or civil) decide cases on the basis of available evidence, proof of the facts. The church in the public or external forum says we cannnot pronounce this marriage invalid. We must consider her and her partner husband and wife with the corresponding obligations of spouses.

What a dilemma! It seems whatever way she turns is wrong. She knows she cannot morally live with this man as her husband, but the church law says she is bound to.

She asks her pastor or a priest in confession what she must do. To assist her to live faithful to her conscience and the real truth, he explains her situation to her, gives her the facts and information on which she can judge whether she is truly married or nbot. And he explains the options she has in such a situation. In the end she must make the final judgement about the validity or invalidity of her marriage. In either instance this is called an internal forum solution to her marriage dilemma. It is internal as opposed to the external forum with its judges, advocates, and official judgements entered in the public records of the church.

This is not an attempt to contravene divine law. It is rather an effort to help the person in such a situation live with what is actually the divine law - despite contrary appearances.

When questiond about a letter to the US BISHOPS that dealt with the use of the internal forum or pastoral solution, Archbishhop J. Jerome Hamer, then the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in effect recognized the legitimacy of the internal forum solution. He was explaining that a phrase “probate praxis Ecclesiae” used in the letter was to be underestood in the context of traditional moral theology ---- which teaches the internal forum as a way of handling such cases.

It is possible that some people, unaware of all the facts and that the internal forum solution is being legitimately used, would be scandalized to see such a person receiving Communion. In that case the person could be instructed to receive Communion where he or she is not known.

But how can a person in this situation enter a new marriage if no priest can witness it in the external forum because there is no church pronouncement of invalidity? Canon law itself provides that when a priest is unavailable for a length of time a couple can marry by exchanging consent before witnesses alone.

Pastors and canonist who have recourse to this pastoral solution or the internal forum are not sneaky, crafty, corner-cutting priests trying to “get around” the law or avoiding its consequences. They are priests trying to help people in very difficult and trying circumstances to live in the love of God and in accord with his law and the truth.
 
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