Am I going to Hell for being a Father?

[bilop]

If I can no longer be a Catholic there really is no other religion I would want to be a part of.

I really hope this works out for you.

If you can’t be a good Catholic now, be a bad Catholic. Attend Mass, at least. I think it is better to be a bad Catholic, than to seek another religion that will validate our sins. I was a bad Catholic for close to 20 years. Probably in Mortal Sin the whole time. But I never stopped being Catholic, and I don’t think I ever denied the truth of what the Church teaches. I just couldn’t live it at that time. But the time came that I could, and do.

Rember St. Augustine,

“Oh Lord, give me chastity, but do not give it yet.”

Try to perservere.

God Bless

 

[Celeste88]

A point of clarification - the Church cannot annul a marriage. Either there was never a marriage to begin with, or the marriage is for life. Jesus said, “What God has put together” ( that is, if there is a marriage) no one can wrest asunder (no one also includes the divorce court judge and also every member of the Marriage Tribunal - again, they cannot break a marriage, if it exists).

Only if these occurred before the wedding took place. They do not look at anything that happened after the wedding (because the vow says "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, etc. - which includes every bad thing that happens after the wedding), unless it points to the situation of the wedding itself - for example, if one of them is found to be an alcoholic after the wedding, then they would look to see whether that person had become an alcoholic before the wedding took place (in which case the person was not competent to make marriage vows) or did this occur after the wedding - in which case it comes under “in sickness and in health,” as part of the vows that were taken.

What if the husband was accused of pedophila AFTER a marriage and sentenced to prison? Does the Church allow an annulment or force a woman to stay married to a pedophile? Or a rapist or murderer? Aren’t there exceptions to this rule??

 

[Tweety]

Some people just cant let go. Please tell me what happens to my soul according to the church if I continue to love my wife while embracing and facilitate a happy and loving home for our children. To me it sounds like you believe I would live an eternal life in HELL. Is that what you are saying. YES/NO?

If that is the case then you are additionally saying that everyone who is not Catholic is going to hell?

Do you see the can of worms you are about to open. Be careful as to your answer as I’m certain that the bible talks about the self righteous.

Chefboy,

I wish you all the best. You and your wife love eachother and love is** from **God.

Our God is a** forgiving God. You will not **go to Hell. And i am suprised that anybody would even say that. We are taught that through Jesus we are saved… I am not God, but i believe if we are truly SORRY, he forgives us… I am not saying that we can go do what we like and just expect forgiveness - but Jesus died for US SINNERS! I am a sinner, and i will always be a sinner.

I know a couple who had children and were together for 5 years i think… He had been married in a civil ceremony to a prostitute for a sum of money and the Church granted him an annulment… He never married his first wife for love, nor his second. He married the second wife as he had 2 children with her. Their marriage lasted not even 12 months… He is now on his third marriage - but i believe he actually loves this woman… I hope he does…

From what i have read, you and your wife **do have a real **marriage in the sense of the word. You love eachother, you accepted children into your life and children are from God, you are faithful to eachother and you obviously are very protective of your wife - which is how a husband should be.

I wish you all the best and i truly hope that you work it all out so that you have your faith as well as your family…

My mother married my father in a civil ceremony and when he died, we asked our priest does God recognise him as her husband as she was married in a Catholic Church in her first marriage (she became a widow at 25 and then met my dad) and he didn’t want the Church wedding and mum was ‘stupid’ and ‘in love’ and had a 2 year old son to worry about… and agreed… She regrets it, she was not allowed to have Holy Communion for many, many years which actually drove her away from Mass - but not the Church… but she has been back for i think 15 years or more now… did 10 years at Eucharistic Adoration and really gave herself to God. Guess what? She was forgiven! Alleluia! You will be too…

 

[deb1]

tweety there is **no **post that says that chef boy will go to hell! i’ve read through all the responses and no one has said anything like that.

chef boy, you are in my prayers. i hope that everything works out well for you and your wife.

 

[deb1]

What if the husband was accused of pedophila AFTER a marriage and sentenced to prison? Does the Church allow an annulment or force a woman to stay married to a pedophile? Or a rapist or murderer? Aren’t there exceptions to this rule??

my guess is that if he did not tell her of this sickness before her marriage that his secret would be grounds for divorce because she didn’t have enough information to make a decision.

 

[LilyM]

Chefboy,

I wish you all the best. You and your wife love eachother and love is** from **God.

Our God is a** forgiving God. You will not **go to Hell. And i am suprised that anybody would even say that. We are taught that through Jesus we are saved… I am not God, but i believe if we are truly SORRY, he forgives us… I am not saying that we can go do what we like and just expect forgiveness - but Jesus died for US SINNERS! I am a sinner, and i will always be a sinner.

Jesus forgives, sure - but only IF we acknowledge our sins and repent of them, and sin no more! And yes, he sends unrepentant and obstinate sinners to hell! It DOES exist, and many sinners DO go there! He died to SAVE us from sin, not to give us a licence to keep sinning!

When the woman caught in adultery was brought before him he told her to to sin no more. Not just to go right on back to her lover. And he said that whoever marries a divorced woman committs adultery with her. In other words IT’S A SIN. Must be repented from and you must NOT committ adultery any more!

 

[gmarie21]

Jesus forgives, sure - but only IF we acknowledge our sins and repent of them, and sin no more! And yes, he sends unrepentant and obstinate sinners to hell! It DOES exist, and many sinners DO go there! He died to SAVE us from sin, not to give us a licence to keep sinning!

When the woman caught in adultery was brought before him he told her to to sin no more. Not just to go right on back to her lover. And he said that whoever marries a divorced woman committs adultery with her. In other words IT’S A SIN. Must be repented from and you must NOT committ adultery any more!

God DOES send souls to hell, and we are to repent, but not a single person on earth should ever judge or state that a person for sure will go to hell (or heaven). God is mercy and judgement is not my decision, nor anyone elses. Now, don’t get me wrong, it is better to love God and follow the Truth He teaches. I don’t want to run the risk of having my soul go to hell. Chefboy may be willing to run that risk, but I will never, nor should anyone else who isn’t God, tell him that he is going to Hell. His soul is in danger, but when he dies, maybe someone will be praying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for him at the moment of his death and God will have mercy on him and send his soul to purgatory to be purified.

 

[Greg27]

Thank you for your kind words. You are correct when you say I do not have an understanding of annulment and what it takes to accomplish it. I would recommend that you re-read some of the answers given me by some of the posters. Their choice of words by no means come across as loving and comforting to anyone that finds themself in my situation.

Additionally, I am at a loss how anyone can infer that they have an understanding of the annulment process because they are involved in RCIA and have dealt with it many times. This is a spiritual journey that I would submit GOD has provided to all of us with free will to make our own decisions. In the end he will be the judge as to whether or not we made the morally correct decisions. To that end it is very difficult to put your spiritual life in the hands of people who condemn you.
Catechism of the Catholic Church pg 409-1639/40
The Celebration of the Marriage between man and woman is is a “bond that has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved. This bond, which results from the free human act of the spouses and their consummation of the marriage, is a reality, henceforth irrevocable, and gives rise to a covenant guaranteed by Gods fidelity. The Church does not have the power to contravene this disposition of divine wisdom”.

So now the church says in another breath that it will allow annulments in certain situations as noted above and in other situations it will allow the spouses to live physically separate lives. pg. 411 1649

Perhaps the lucky ones are able to prove there innocents in the Tribuanal. What about the woman or men who end up with a cheating spouse for no apparent reason. It was not planned?
What about the individuals who are abandoned by their spouses and end up having to bring up children by themselves. Are the children subject to Catholic law in the sense that they cannot enjoy the presence of a father in the home? Is the woman scarred for life because the church does not recognize the fact that she was abandoned. Please people think with your brains and stop following blindly.

I really must get on with my daily life so please forgive me if I do not respond for awhile. I have put alot of time into this discussion and it seems as though Im chipping away at the Hoover Dam with a toothbrush. I am sure that there are many others who feel the same way I do. Most of them have already left the Church. I really want to stay, but I will not practice hypocrisy like so many in our church do on a daily basis.

I think if for some reason one can’t accept a fundamental Catholic teaching in good conscience one then has two options; to not participate in the eucharist but keep going to church, or to leave altogether.

I think if I was in your situation I would have made a careful examen of my conscience to see whether I could hold the teachings of the church and continue to live as I did in good conscience. While thankfully such a situation has not faced me, I would have to make a choice either to stop living in a certain way or to accept the church’s teaching and seek reconciliation.

The alternative would be to leave the church, but to me that would only be a last resort if all other options had been exhausted.

You need to examine your conscience and see whether you can maintain the way you live and also accept the church’s teachings in terms of marriage, and then consider what sort of reconciliation you desire to seek with the Church. The Church welcomes home anyone, even those who have left, with charity and compassion, but at the same time there are certain lifestyles or behaviours which are not acceptable if you are a practising member of the church.

Please take some time to think this through carefully before you make a hasty decision; no-one desires you to suffer pain or to go to hell, but all comments here do have a basis in compassion and kindness, even if expressed in sometimes hostile fashion.

 

[Greg27]

Jesus forgives, sure - but only IF we acknowledge our sins and repent of them, and sin no more! And yes, he sends unrepentant and obstinate sinners to hell! It DOES exist, and many sinners DO go there! He died to SAVE us from sin, not to give us a licence to keep sinning!

When the woman caught in adultery was brought before him he told her to to sin no more. Not just to go right on back to her lover. And he said that whoever marries a divorced woman committs adultery with her. In other words IT’S A SIN. Must be repented from and you must NOT committ adultery any more!

I think we need to be careful in saying who will be damned. Only God can judge with true justice (which is impartial and balanced with his mercy) what sort of fate someone deserves for what they’ve done for the entirely of their lives. We easily forget we ourselves are also sinners in need of forgiveness, when we only see the sins of others and not those of our own as well.

 

[jmcrae]

What if the husband was accused of pedophila AFTER a marriage and sentenced to prison? Does the Church allow an annulment or force a woman to stay married to a pedophile? Or a rapist or murderer? Aren’t there exceptions to this rule??

First, “for better or for worse” means exactly that. Nobody is perfect, and all of us feel like walking out on our spouses from time to time. Sometimes our vows, and the seriousness with which we take them, is all that stands between us and the door.

Second, the Church permits us to leave a spouse who is making the common life intolerably difficult - if your life is in danger, you can certainly leave.

Freedom to leave does not equate to permission to marry someone else, though. We can’t be married to two people at the same time, and not even a civil divorce can dissolve the spiritual bond between husband and wife - even if they hate each other, and even if one of them is mentally ill.

A mental illness can be grounds for a Declaration of Nullity, if it was present at the time of the wedding, since a person with a mental illness might not have the capacity to marry - if they find that the person did not understand what was happening at the time of the wedding, then a Declaration of Nullity would certainly be granted.

 

[Greg27]

Jesus forgives, sure - but only IF we acknowledge our sins and repent of them, and sin no more! And yes, he sends unrepentant and obstinate sinners to hell! It DOES exist, and many sinners DO go there! He died to SAVE us from sin, not to give us a licence to keep sinning!

When the woman caught in adultery was brought before him he told her to to sin no more. Not just to go right on back to her lover. And he said that whoever marries a divorced woman committs adultery with her. In other words IT’S A SIN. Must be repented from and you must NOT committ adultery any more!

I think we need to be careful in saying who will be damned. Only God can judge with true justice (which is impartial and balanced with his mercy) what sort of fate someone deserves for what they’ve done for the entirely of their lives. We easily forget we ourselves are also sinners in need of forgiveness, when we only see the sins of others and not those of our own as well.

I believe God is infinitely compassionate and merciful, and while there is no ‘get out of jail free card’ we need to make sure in even in talking to sinners, we do not make them despair for God’s mercy and their salvation, even if to us they may seem hopelessly lost. God will surely weigh it very heavily against us if our actions led someone who might have been saved through our understanding and compassion to despair and leave the church out of anger, frustration or despair they had no means of reconciliation to God available.

 

[Tweety]

tweety there is **no **post that says that chef boy will go to hell! i’ve read through all the responses and no one has said anything like that.

chef boy, you are in my prayers. i hope that everything works out well for you and your wife.

I never said that anybody at** CAF **said Chefboy would go to hell, but that is his opening question isn’t it? **Am i going to Hell for being a Father? **I presumed that someone, somewhere has said this to him, or he has heard it, read it, thinks it or has been told it.

What i said was:
*Our God is a forgiving God. You will not go to Hell. And i am suprised that anybody would even say that. We are taught that through Jesus we are saved… I am not God, but i believe if we are truly SORRY, he forgives us… I am not saying that we can go do what we like and just expect forgiveness - but Jesus died for US SINNERS! I am a sinner, and i will always be a sinner. *

I do know that we must be repentant and try not to sin. I believe that if we are truly repentant - God will forgive us. I was taught that and hear it in Mass so very often… Even the non believers who lead good lives, i believe they will be allowed into one of our Father’s many, many rooms. I have been taught this through ALL of my Catholic schooling. I also know that Jesus said that no-one goes to his Father’s house unless through HIM! … So the fairest and most Christian thing i can do is leave it up to God to decide who will be in one of HIS many, many rooms.

I believe that **God can forgive the unforgivable ** which we humans can’t do, but God CAN and DOES every micro second of the day.

My uncle molested me from when i was 5 to 8 yrs old. He does not really believe in God even though when he married my aunty in Germany - it had to be in his Lutheran Church. Many years ago he told mum “WHAT GOD?”… I have forgiven him, and so will God IF he is truly sorry for what he did. It’s out of my hands - i trust God and one day when we are both dead - if he is repentant before God and is forgiven and comes up to me and says sorry - i will do the right thing and embrace him.

My father took a life - his own - 2 years ago this past Sunday the 10th of June, so forgive me, as i am still a bit emotional… Is he in hell?** NO!** Surely, for taking his own life, which he had no right to do, don’t you think God would punish him to eternal hell? **NO! **God loves him and does not want one single soul to go to hell. God doesn’t want his creations with Satan! He wants them all in heaven with him! God loves my daddy and Jesus died for him. At Divine Mercy last year i did what was required of me and i am confident that my father is forgiven and is in heaven.

I apologise if i didn’t express myself better.

Chefboy - i really do pray that it all works out for you and your precious family…

 

[LilyM]

God DOES send souls to hell, and we are to repent, but not a single person on earth should ever judge or state that a person for sure will go to hell (or heaven). God is mercy and judgement is not my decision, nor anyone elses. Now, don’t get me wrong, it is better to love God and follow the Truth He teaches. I don’t want to run the risk of having my soul go to hell. Chefboy may be willing to run that risk, but I will never, nor should anyone else who isn’t God, tell him that he is going to Hell. His soul is in danger, but when he dies, maybe someone will be praying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for him at the moment of his death and God will have mercy on him and send his soul to purgatory to be purified.

Making a general statement that something has been pronounced by Our Lord to be a sin, and that it’s necessary to cease from sin to be saved, which I did, is different to saying that any individual will go to Hell. While there’s life there’s hope, naturally.

And yes, God is infinitely merciful, of course He is. He is infinitely just as well, however, and I don’t think sugarcoating THAT fact does anyone any favours.

 

[Chefboy]

A point of clarification - the Church cannot annul a marriage. Either there was never a marriage to begin with, or the marriage is for life. Jesus said, “What God has put together” ( that is, if there is a marriage) no one can wrest asunder (no one also includes the divorce court judge and also every member of the Marriage Tribunal - again, they cannot break a marriage, if it exists).

Only if these occurred before the wedding took place. They do not look at anything that happened after the wedding (because the vow says "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, etc. - which includes every bad thing that happens after the wedding), unless it points to the situation of the wedding itself - for example, if one of them is found to be an alcoholic after the wedding, then they would look to see whether that person had become an alcoholic before the wedding took place (in which case the person was not competent to make marriage vows) or did this occur after the wedding - in which case it comes under “in sickness and in health,” as part of the vows that were taken.

Where in the Bible does it say the Catholic Church has the right to decide if a marriage was not lawful in the first place?

Alcoholism from what I understand is something you are born with. This is common knowledge in the medical community so how does the Church differentiate whether one was an alcoholic prior to marriage or became an alcoholic in marriage. Again many assumptions?

 

[LittleDeb]

Where in the Bible does it say the Catholic Church has the right to decide if a marriage was not lawful in the first place?

Hi Chefboy, From what we were discussing last night I had hopes that you would seek to understand Church teaching. Scripture flows from Tradition which flows from Apostolic authority. I can show you in Scripture where it says it, but I am not sure you are in a place yet that you are willing to hear it. You have been in my prayers all day. I even asked my chef husband to pray for you too.

 

[LilyM]

Where in the Bible does it say the Catholic Church has the right to decide if a marriage was not lawful in the first place?

Again - it’s right where the Apostles (and the Pope and Bishops their successors) receive the power to bind and loose heaven.

Alcoholism from what I understand is something you are born with. This is common knowledge in the medical community so how does the Church differentiate whether one was an alcoholic prior to marriage or became an alcoholic in marriage. Again many assumptions?

Not so, and both my parents and an older sister are doctors so I know a little about what’s ‘common knowledge’ in the medical community

Firstly some alcoholics (not all) are born with a predisposition to alcoholism. Predisposition means that they have a greater chance than the average person of becoming alcoholics - doesn’t mean it’s a certainty.

So no-one becomes an alcoholic without having at least SOME choice as to whether to drink too much or not. Now if the person wasn’t alcoholic prior to marriage then they were in full possession of their right mind.

Someone with this gene looks and behaves no differently to anyone else - UNTIL they begin drinking. IF said person didn’t begin drinking before the marriage then it’s not an issue - part of the ‘better or worse’ as any other disease would be.

 

[HenryV]

I think we need to be careful in saying who will be damned. Only God can judge with true justice (which is impartial and balanced with his mercy) what sort of fate someone deserves for what they’ve done for the entirely of their lives. We easily forget we ourselves are also sinners in need of forgiveness, when we only see the sins of others and not those of our own as well.

I believe God is infinitely compassionate and merciful, and while there is no ‘get out of jail free card’ we need to make sure in even in talking to sinners, we do not make them despair for God’s mercy and their salvation, even if to us they may seem hopelessly lost. God will surely weigh it very heavily against us if our actions led someone who might have been saved through our understanding and compassion to despair and leave the church out of anger, frustration or despair they had no means of reconciliation to God available.

The fact is anyone of us might end up in hell, all it really takes is one unrepented mortal sin on your conscience. If we put pleasure before love than we are in a very bad place and might be glad we even come to purgatory with the help of God.

The only way to stay out of dager of hell is to stay clear of mortal sin and to go to confession regularly.

God is Infinite Mercy and infinite Justice. That’s why He let us know what to do and what to avoid to reach heaven as He promised us.

 

[HenryV]

Some people just cant let go. Please tell me what happens to my soul according to the church if I continue to love my wife while embracing and facilitate a happy and loving home for our children. To me it sounds like you believe I would live an eternal life in HELL. Is that what you are saying. YES/NO?

If that is the case then you are additionally saying that everyone who is not Catholic is going to hell?

Do you see the can of worms you are about to open. Be careful as to your answer as I’m certain that the bible talks about the self righteous.

Look above.

Stop mocking God, and stop offending Him through sin.

All it takes to get to hell is one unrepented mortal sin on your conscience. Just read the CCC.

The opposite of sin is grace and the love of God.

You really need Jesus.

 

[Greg27]

The fact is anyone of us might end up in hell, all it really takes is one unrepented mortal sin on your conscience. If we put pleasure before love than we are in a very bad place and might be glad we even come to purgatory with the help of God.

The only way to stay out of dager of hell is to stay clear of mortal sin and to go to confession regularly.

God is Infinite Mercy and infinite Justice. That’s why He let us know what to do and what to avoid to reach heaven as He promised us.

My point was that it seems like some here are telling this poor fellow he is heading directly to perdition. I found this somewhat distressing as it seems to completely lack compassion.

There seems to be a disturbing lack of compassion here combined with a harsh and shrill judgementalism. No-one can be expected to be perfect; in fact I am tending to find instead of great joy at being a Catholic, my faith is being destroyed by the hardness of heart and the hatred I am seeing in so many others, towards other Christians, towards those of other religions, and even towards Catholics who are lapsed.

I don’t think I want to be a part of such a church, or for a forum like that, where one feels no peace, no welcome, no acceptance, and no rest, and no sense that God is present as mercy and love, and instead we are doomed to hell because we don’t live up to an external standard of the law or holiness which for one reason or another we can’t live up to.

 

[HenryV]

My point was that it seems like some here are telling this poor fellow he is heading directly to perdition. I found this somewhat distressing as it seems to completely lack compassion.

There seems to be a disturbing lack of compassion here combined with a harsh and shrill judgementalism. No-one can be expected to be perfect; in fact I am tending to find instead of great joy at being a Catholic, my faith is being destroyed by the hardness of heart and the hatred I am seeing in so many others, towards other Christians, towards those of other religions, and even towards Catholics who are lapsed.

I don’t think I want to be a part of such a church, or for a forum like that, where one feels no peace, no welcome, no acceptance, and no rest, and no sense that God is present as mercy and love, and instead we are doomed to hell because we don’t live up to an external standard of the law or holiness which for one reason or another we can’t live up to.

Greg, In my post I clearly stated that God is Infinite Mercy. There’s no need to decieve people with poison that is sugarcoated.

What would you tell a woman about to have an abortion- just go ahead hun’ God loves you. Would you say that??

I stated a truth about mortal sin that’s valid for all of us.
If you think this is judgementalism you might be right and frankly I don’t care what church you feel is right to belong to, what I care about is to belong to the Church that is the Body of Christ .

Peace and all good.