Am I in a rebound relationship?

[EasterJoy]

…To take your personality-disorder-accusation a little further, what is to say that it is not the original poster who has borderline or dependent personality disorder, or some form of anxiety disorder, or an adult version of attachment disorder?..

Just to clarify: I did not say this man has a personality disorder. I pointed out that this couple is starting down a road that people with personality disorders use to manipulate their victims. It is not the man I think is necessarily unhealthy–maybe he is, maybe he’s not, although by his own account he’s at least emotionally injured–but I am saying that the situation is highly unhealthy. They’re setting up a bad foundation: that is, a foundation where she is being encouraged to ignore her own growing feelings of anxiety, hurt, and insecurity in the hopes that doing so will help him in the process of reducing his own. Not good, not good at all. Besides, it won’t work! In a good relationship, both people grow and become better, and the love benefits both the giver and the receiver. That is not what is happening here.

We can’t know, you are right about that, but if I had to guess, I would guess that it is highly unlikely that this guy has any idea what he’s asking of the OP. Sure, he could be something other than what he says, but he’s probably not a bad guy. I do think he’s mistaken in terms of healthy ways to run relationships. He doesn’t seem to understand that it is prudent to refrain from playing in traffic. He doesn’t seem to realize that it is unfair to pursue someone as a love interest in order to make them your nurse, or to pull them closer when you realize that you don’t currently have the emotional resources for that kind of closeness. He is putting burdens on their relationship that do not belong there. He needs to learn that this is not how healthy relationships work. If he doesn’t learn that, he’s not likely to ever get one. When two nice people do that to each other, it really is tragic.

 

[chevalier]

EasterJoy, I’m not saying the OP’s anxiety is definitely or totally normal. A certain level of anxiety is normal in all relationships, especially when they involve introverts or hurt people and the OP does seem to be one. I’m not saying the guy’s behaviour is certainly within the limits of normalcy, either.

What I’m saying is that we have very limited information and only on his current behaviour in circumstances that basically make it expectable to act out of one’s normal bounds. I’d be worried about the sanity of someone who actually were able to act cool and collected in such circumstances, at least without putting much effort in it.

What I’m saying is that the interpretations of his behaviour provided in this thread are excessive and they connect with the general trend for people but especially women to expect their potential dates to be entirely collected, entirely level-headed, ready to offer support while themselves being devoid of their own problems. In essence: unscathed, supportive of baggage but free of baggage.

The above unrealistic expectation also connects with the idea that if you as much as sense something bad, you run for the hills, shut off, “protect yourself” (go in total protection mode) etc., instead of examining the reasons behind the feelings and finding out more about the situation in order to make an informed decision, which is unhealthy and leads to losing relationship opportunities. To the detriment of both men and women who would both otherwise be able to have somewhat acceptable relationships but the approach described in this paragraph and the previous one drastically reduces their opportunities.

There is also a tendency to translate subjective experience into a judgement of objective reality and that’s not good for interpersonal relationships. One’s got to rationalise at least a bit and remember that feelings are guides but not 100% proofs. Especially when judging someone (as opposed to merely deciding that one doesn’t want a relationship).

While the man’s behaviour is definitely different from standard, appropriate etc., and without additional information he sounds like someone one had better skip, the intensity of his “issues” (problems he’s going to introduce into a girl’s life) is debatable and depends on the additional information that we just don’t have (context, background, precise details of what was actually said or done). And there’s flatly not enough substance to back all those things said against him. Which connects with what I noted about a certain exaggeration in both the typical person’s expectations of his or her partner, and in the reliance on clues.

1. I burst into tears when we hung up, because I don’t understand him, everything contradicts itself. Yes, I can imagine she did. Yet somehow Chevelier and Khalid think this is part and parcel of a normal relationship.

Of course it’s not! But normal people are indeed capable of acting like that under emotional distress. Or even just stress. Huge stress does make people act outside their normal system of values or even sometimes their conscious will.

Newsflash!!! This is NOT part and parcel of a normal relationship! This is typical of some person trying to use their current relationship as a salve to get over their last one.

I do know a bit about such persons.

is causing me lot of anxiety.
I then start to doubt and feel insecure of myself…

That’s a description of the reception of his behaviour, not of how he actually acts. Typically, how we feel in interacting with somebody is a mixture of both his actions and our more or less subconscious conceptions. It’s never a clear probe of someone’s actions. (There’s also a reason lawyers say, let the other party be heard! It’s not not only a matter of procedural justice, it does change the perspective of the substantive problem dramatically.)

She told him she didn’t want to be used to get over his last relationship, but that is precisely what he is doing, and it is hurting her.

And that’s actually conjecture. An equally viable explanation is that he’s in whining mode and acts like a pansy instead of getting his gear together. “…To get over his last relationship,” is directional and we have no proof, nor even really a solid hint, that such directionality is there. (To illustrate, when a friend or family member is curt with me or lashes out due to stress carried over from work, that doesn’t mean he or she is using me to relieve that stress in any seriously directed way. It’s more likely a failure of self-control or at most an uncontrolled need to take it out. Which is different when someone attempts to make a training dummy to compensate for his or her lack of ability to lash back at the boss or customers.)

In this case we’ve just got a somewhat emo guy who right now is making flamboyant teary statements about his feelings while using his last relationship as a crutch argument when confronted with his cold or contradictory behaviour. But we don’t know what actually constitutes cold or contradictory behaviour. None of us are perfectly consistent and things like cold or curt act are very easily misinterpreted. (And contrary to common belief, women aren’t really born experts on such things, just typically more aware or attentive than the average guy but not by an overshadowing margin and nowhere close to being infallible.)

 

[chevalier]

If the guy uses mean words or rude expressions or barks or scowls at the OP, or raises his voice, or uses a particularly obnoxious tone, or actually makes things up (re: those contradictions), then I’d be the first to tell her to drop him unless he first completes therapy. But if coldness translates to insufficient warmth or openness (or any typical introverted/hurt traits), or if contradictory behaviour translates to behaviour which is hard to make logical sense of (but not really a flat contradiction, like a direct lie), then those may very well be simply the symptoms of a sad, stressed person, which may be temporary and which he has every right to be right now. And thus there is some chance he might be a workable guy in a rut. Which I’m mentioning only really because the OP, other than his problematic behaviour, did rate him as a great guy.

Myself, I certainly don’t have a rich fall-rise intonation let alone enthusiasm in my voice, don’t jump on great ideas and don’t act cheerful or happy around others when I’m freshly after hearing “let’s just be friends” or equivalent phrase, let alone actually being taken in a ride in what I thought (hoped) to be a successful relationship material. More likely I have a flat voice, tendency towards black humour, short replies, relatively stupid observations about life, a little pansy act and self-pity, some moderately paranoid witch-hunting and blame deflection, and a small dose of promising to improve and admitting I know I should know better being as old as I am. That guy’s more extreme, but there’s no proof he’s properly nuts.

 

[Metropolis]

OP- Well, from my experience it seems that you are in a rebound relationship. He just got out of a long term relationship, then a few months later gets in a relationship with you, two weeks later declares you are the love of his life before even meeting you in person (which is really fast), and then can’t really be in a full relationship (and asks for patience) because he is still dealing with his issues from the last relationship. He may really care for you, maybe not, but he just doesn’t seem ready to be in a relationship right now. He should wait until he has sorted out his feelings from his prior relationship. It seems you are in almost a three way relationship with him, you, and his ex.

 

[EasterJoy]

If the guy uses mean words or rude expressions or barks or scowls at the OP, or raises his voice, or uses a particularly obnoxious tone, or actually makes things up (re: those contradictions), then I’d be the first to tell her to drop him unless he first completes therapy. But if coldness translates to insufficient warmth or openness (or any typical introverted/hurt traits), or if contradictory behaviour translates to behaviour which is hard to make logical sense of (but not really a flat contradiction, like a direct lie), then those may very well be simply the symptoms of a sad, stressed person, which may be temporary and which he has every right to be right now. And thus there is some chance he might be a workable guy in a rut. Which I’m mentioning only really because the OP, other than his problematic behaviour, did rate him as a great guy.

Myself, I certainly don’t have a rich fall-rise intonation let alone enthusiasm in my voice, don’t jump on great ideas and don’t act cheerful or happy around others when I’m freshly after hearing “let’s just be friends” or equivalent phrase, let alone actually being taken in a ride in what I thought (hoped) to be a successful relationship material. More likely I have a flat voice, tendency towards black humour, short replies, relatively stupid observations about life, a little pansy act and self-pity, some moderately paranoid witch-hunting and blame deflection, and a small dose of promising to improve and admitting I know I should know better being as old as I am. That guy’s more extreme, but there’s no proof he’s properly nuts.

So, you’re saying it doesn’t matter in your mind that she feels anxious, confused, hurt, that deep down she does don’t trust what she’s hearing when he tells her he loves her and that she is starting to doubt and feel insecure of herself, that she should ignore the things that make her burst into tears and just tell herself that this could all be temporary and she should be patient and ride it out because he is not using “mean words or rude expressions or barks or scowls at the OP, or raises his voice, or uses a particularly obnoxious tone, or actually makes things up”. Really?

Who is saying he is nuts, properly or improperly? I’m saying the relationship is having a bad effect on her, the red flag kind of bad effects, it is even having the kind of effect that very unhealthy relationships have on people, and that is enough reason to pull back. Period. Do not make this about him. This doesn’t have to be about him at all. For crying out loud…do not make her stick around to prove that he has something wrong with him!! Let this decision be about what is healthy for her!

 

[chevalier]

So, you’re saying it doesn’t matter in your mind that she feels anxious, confused, hurt, that deep down she does don’t trust what she’s hearing when he tells her he loves her and that she is starting to doubt and feel insecure of herself, that she should ignore the things that make her burst into tears and just tell herself that this could all be temporary and she should be patient and ride it out because he is not using “mean words or rude expressions or barks or scowls at the OP, or raises his voice, or uses a particularly obnoxious tone, or actually makes things up”. Really?

Of course not, you’re simply somehow inclined to take what I say and interpret it like that. If you stop for a while and look at it, I’m saying, “feelings are not absolute probes, they need some rationalising,” and you’re translating it into, “feelings don’t matter at all.” Surely you can notice the exaggeration.

The OP is obviously hurt and under a heavy influence of emotions and it would be a shame if she lost a potentially decent guy due to that. When I notice someone actually somewhat cold to me, first of all I ask myself how reliable my perception was, then I wonder if there was a way for the person in question to misrepresent himself (herself), and then if there was a good unrelated cause to act like that, and failing a good cause, at least some semi-competent excuse. I’d have lost a couple of people as friends or partners if I relied on my initial feelings. Also just because I’m hurt doesn’t mean the other person hurt me. If I get a rash because someone touched me, I might just be allergic to him, which is not his fault; on the other hand, if he punched me and I bled, that’s indeed attributable to him.

Who is saying he is nuts, properly or improperly? I’m saying the relationship is having a bad effect on her, the red flag kind of bad effects, it is even having the kind of effect that very unhealthy relationships have on people, and that is enough reason to pull back. Period. Do not make this about him.

You are making this about him by attributing a ton of things to him that simply are not warranted.

This doesn’t have to be about him at all. For crying out loud…do not make her stick around to prove that he has something wrong with him!! Let this decision be about what is healthy for her!

That almost sounds like, “leave the decision to her,” while it’s being made by you or the other folks in the thread.

There’s one decision here that can be about what’s healthy for her: to start or not start the relationship. Or, possibly, to stay around to see or not. Plus, what’s healthy or not is more of a rational matter, it doesn’t rely on immediately reacting to emotions in a way those emotions seem to suggest.

But the decision as to whether the guy did this or that or how he acts, is he to blame etc. can absolutely never be about what’s healthy for her. Just because it seems to be good for my health, I can’t make the decision that a neighbour I have a bit of a conflict with is doing all sorts of bad things.

The problem in this thread is not even about that specific guy. The problem is about interpreting things the worst possible way without proof, attaching absolute weight to feelings and hunches instead of trying to understand them, putting the equation sign between “she feels hurt” and “he hurts her”, attributing bad things to people in order to match a preconceived idea of them being horrible people. And that’s one heap of a problem.

 

[FriendlyFace]

EasterJoy:

Quote:

So, you’re saying it doesn’t matter in your mind that she feels anxious, confused, hurt, that deep down she does don’t trust what she’s hearing when he tells her he loves her and that she is starting to doubt and feel insecure of herself, that she should ignore the things that make her burst into tears and just tell herself that this could all be temporary and she should be patient and ride it out because he is not using “mean words or rude expressions or barks or scowls at the OP, or raises his voice, or uses a particularly obnoxious tone, or actually makes things up”. Really?

Who is saying he is nuts, properly or improperly? I’m saying the relationship is having a bad effect on her, the red flag kind of bad effects, it is even having the kind of effect that very unhealthy relationships have on people, and that is enough reason to pull back. Period. Do not make this about him. This doesn’t have to be about him at all. For crying out loud… do not make her stick around to prove that he has something wrong with him!! Let this decision be about what is healthy for her!

Amen.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Metropolis]

Amen.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

I second this amen. It doesn’t matter who is at fault or who is or is not ready for a relationship or whatever. What matters is that this relationship is making her anxious and unhappy and it is in the beginning part where people tend to be on their best behavior. Things will only get worse in time and she shouldn’t have to stick in a relationship that makes her miserable for whatever reason. They aren’t married, they just started dating and still really don’t know each other that well. The relationship is unhealthy and it doesn’t matter who is at fault, it just needs to end here to minimize damage done.

 

[Bezant]

The problem in this thread is not even about that specific guy. The problem is about interpreting things the worst possible way without proof, attaching absolute weight to feelings and hunches instead of trying to understand them, putting the equation sign between “she feels hurt” and “he hurts her”, attributing bad things to people in order to match a preconceived idea of them being horrible people. And that’s one heap of a problem.

 

[chevalier]

I second this amen. It doesn’t matter who is at fault or who is or is not ready for a relationship or whatever. What matters is that this relationship is making her anxious and unhappy and it is in the beginning part where people tend to be on their best behavior. Things will only get worse in time and she shouldn’t have to stick in a relationship that makes her miserable for whatever reason. They aren’t married, they just started dating and still really don’t know each other that well. The relationship is unhealthy and it doesn’t matter who is at fault, it just needs to end here to minimize damage done.

At the risk of coming off as somewhat rude (which is not my intention to be & I apologise if this does seem to be the impression), I’d like to chime in with a comment there: your arguments have some merit (but still not full merit) when the case argued is to avoid the relationship. But no merit when it’s about summarising someone’s character or even really when reading and describing someone’s behaviour.

Also, standard thing with impression != reality. Minimising the damage is important but panicking tends to increase damage instead by causing a different type of damage. For example, when you rush a job to meet the deadline, you may succeed at meeting the deadline but make some costly mistakes that will prevent you from enjoying the expected fruit of your work. With relationships, making avoidance or withdrawal your default reaction unless everything clicks right away (or close to there), you will remove the risk but the risk will be removed together with the opportunity. Basically, you will have thrown away the grain alongside the chaff instead of waiting a bit to separate it.

Otherwise I agree in principle that if a relationship keeps making one feel miserable, then one should abstain from that relationship. I say “keeps making” because one should first try think about the causes and try to solve the problem instead of simply concluding that feeling miserable must result in withdrawing like it’s some law.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The problem in this thread is not even about that specific guy. The problem is about interpreting things the worst possible way without proof, attaching absolute weight to feelings and hunches instead of trying to understand them, putting the equation sign between “she feels hurt” and “he hurts her”, attributing bad things to people in order to match a preconceived idea of them being horrible people. And that’s one heap of a problem.

-10

Stick to the OP’s situation, prosecutor, we only have the statement of THIS witness to go on. You’ve somehow turned a simple situation into a complicated theoretical treatment worthy of the court. Slow week in the office, perhaps?



I got heavily involved with a guy who “fell in love” with me in about 2 weeks. I was flattered, and didn’t realize that kind of insanity was the mark of an insecure, manipulative, jealous and ultimately violent person. I made all kinds of excuses and found ways to ignore any anxiety I had, and that lead to a lot more pain on my part. Long story short, I should have never gotten involved with him.

I also had an experience with a man who kept me on the hook for when he had time for dalliances outside of his career. He’s gotten a little better over the years, but that history is still pertinent. I had concerns then, that I should have heeded. But I married him instead.

OP, trust your instincts and just ignore the sidebar discussion. Cut the contact with this man, he’s gonna be bad news. I think you already know this. It’s in your opening statements on this thread.

 

[chevalier]

-10

Stick to the OP’s situation, prosecutor, we only have the statement of THIS witness to go on. You’ve somehow turned a simple situation into a complicated theoretical treatment worthy of the court. Slow week in the office, perhaps?

Actually, you guys act like a bunch of prosecutors going after that guy. Actually, a good prosecutor would avoid making any conclusions on the basis of the information you have there.

And it’s only a sad thing that you see me as making whatever kind of accusations against the OP or the bunch of you–again, without any material to ground that conclusion on.

I got heavily involved with a guy who “fell in love” with me in about 2 weeks. I was flattered, and didn’t realize that kind of insanity was the mark of an insecure, manipulative, jealous and ultimately violent person.

You realised all that on the basis of dealing with 1 person who combined all those traits?

I made all kinds of excuses and found ways to ignore any anxiety I had, and that lead to a lot more pain on my part. Long story short, I should have never gotten involved with him.

I made a lot of both accusations and excuses in the relationship context and yet, much of the pain was self-inflicted, especially when it involved perceiving someone’s actions as conveying this or that. Just because I’m hurting doesn’t mean the other person must’ve punched me. Nowhere am I telling you to ignore your anxieties. I’m only telling everybody here to stop making those wild jumps to conclusions without having concrete basis.

I also had an experience with a man who kept me on the hook for when he had time for dalliances outside of his career.

And? How does keeping you on the hook for when he had time outside of his career determine this case here with an emotionally shaken guy making excessive statements and failing to control his act properly?

He’s gotten a little better over the years, but that history is still pertinent. I had concerns then, that I should have heeded. But I married him instead.

All right, I have similar experience too. How does that make it right to translate the impression of acting a little cold into some horrible mean cold-hearted act it’s being made into in this thread? While the OP says “a little cold”, you guys seem to hear “a huge deal of cold” and when the OP says the situation is making her feel anxious or just that she feels anxious, the conclusion is that the guy’s to blame for it, or rather his actions are (as opposed to the possibility of those actions having some kind of explanation). Heh, the OP herself, even though being the affected and hurting party, is showing restraint in drawing conclusions which is lost later in the thread.

OP, trust your instincts and just ignore the sidebar discussion. Cut the contact with this man, he’s gonna be bad news. I think you already know this. It’s in your opening statements on this thread.

There’s a good probability of the above being true. On the other hand, there’s a whole load of less than ideal attitudes all over this thread.

The result, like I said before, is a besieged mentality, or something close to acting like a hunted animal. No rationalising, just instincts. Full-on defensive. Every potential red flag = deal stopper, right there and then. Few living people will actually manage to pass that test. Most of us would remain single forever if everybody made that his approach to relationships.

This said, my role here is over unless we get more information, especially how much and how seriously the OP and the gentleman in question conversed before he confessed love in such a dramatic way, what exactly caused the impression that his act was cold (especially did he simply lack warmth or was he actively cold, as in mean, dry, rude), what are the contradictions in his behaviour and what type of anxiety is involved here. If the conversations weren’t that deep or serious or if there were only few of them, if the man was actually rude, then there’s no reason to continue this, it’s time to end the (prospective relationship). On the other hand, if he failed to be warm, if he declared his love but e.g. failed to back it up with being warm, available, cheerful, enthusiastic, if his bewildering declaration of having found “the love of his life” was preceded by two weeks of very serious, deep conversations (but not pathologically deep or serious or made so artificially by him!), then we can wonder if he’s otherwise a good enough catch to wait and see how he turns out in a month or two from now, while preferably putting the relationship on hold and definitely in the “seeing someone” range rather than the “courting” range.

 

[EasterJoy]

Chevelier, you are not getting this. Go to ONE Al-Anon meeting, and you will get it. There is not a more dangerous choice in the practice of romance than to ignore choking anxiety, rising self-doubt, a plummeting sense of self-worth, and a partner’s entreaties for pity. Those are like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Generally speaking, I am a big fan of using rational analysis when deciding how to respond to emotional reactions, but this is one time I make a very strict exception. Unlike some other collections of emotions, that particular collection of feelings is not an “indicator”, as a bad first impression might be. That is a fire alarm. Even though there is such a thing as a false alarm, a fire alarm does not encourage you to give the building the benefit of the doubt. It does not say, “sniff around awhile and see if you can figure out why the alarm is going off.” It says “do not pick up your belongings, do not delay, GET OUT OF THE BUILDING!” Those who have been burned by ignoring those feelings or by thinking they were smart enough to have a wait-and-see attitude about them can attest to that.

Do not argue with those who know. You’re going to put someone in unnecessary danger. If she wants to go back to the building when those alarms quit sounding, she can do that. Until then, she needs to do what her instincts are telling her. Yeah, she might spend some time waiting around outside only to find it was a false alarm, but it could save her life. So let her go.

 

[chevalier]

Chevelier, you are not getting this. Go to ONE Al-Anon meeting, and you will get it. There is not a more dangerous choice in the practice of romance than to ignore choking anxiety, rising self-doubt, a plummeting sense of self-worth, and a partner’s entreaties for pity. Those are like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

I know that, EasterJoy, along with all the ACA business. But I also know how normal people can snap (and break) in abnormal circumstances and how easy it is to misinterpret someone’s behaviour (friendly vs romantic interest being a classic but also coldness, hostility, condescension and a couple more are easy favourites), or develop anxiety due to fearing the potential implications of a warning sign. And what’s possible for a normal person is even easier for someone with a mild to moderate issue and few of us are free of any (last time I checked, I certainly wasn’t). I also know a heckload about being misjudged (and perhaps a bit about misjudging others).

Generally speaking, I am a big fan of using rational analysis when deciding how to respond to emotional reactions, but this is one time I make a very strict exception. Unlike some other collections of emotions, that particular collection of feelings is not an “indicator”, as a bad first impression might be. That is a fire alarm. Even though there is such a thing as a false alarm, a fire alarm does not encourage you to give the building the benefit of the doubt. It does not say, “sniff around awhile and see if you can figure out why the alarm is going off.” It says “do not pick up your belongings, do not delay, GET OUT OF THE BUILDING!” Those who have been burned by ignoring those feelings or by thinking they were smart enough to have a wait-and-see attitude about them can attest to that.

I understand, but there’s a difference between, “get out of the building and be cautious,” and, “run for the hills and trample stuff on your way.”

Do not argue with those who know. You’re going to put someone in unnecessary danger. If she wants to go back to the building when those alarms quit sounding, she can do that. Until then, she needs to do what her instincts are telling her. Yeah, she might spend some time waiting around outside only to find it was a false alarm, but it could save her life. So let her go.

You’re basing those conclusions on conjecture, no matter how you put it. I agree the guy has red flags and even if his behaviour can be explained he’d still need a bunch of compensating virtues to make it even (which he’s suspected of having, otherwise I might not even started typing), but I honestly feel anxiety myself when I see how easily and how far-going conclusions are made on the basis of such sparse data. If we agreed on how much data we actually have here, then I could easily agree to disagree as to how to act on that data. But I can’t agree to disagree with all those unsafe interpretations here. The recommendation is not a problem, I understand it. But the wild unfavourable interpretations and presumptions hitting the guy on the head with an oak plank are something I just can’t not comment on.

 

[Metropolis]

At the risk of coming off as somewhat rude (which is not my intention to be & I apologise if this does seem to be the impression), I’d like to chime in with a comment there: your arguments have some merit (but still not full merit) when the case argued is to avoid the relationship. But no merit when it’s about summarising someone’s character or even really when reading and describing someone’s behaviour.

Also, standard thing with impression != reality. Minimising the damage is important but panicking tends to increase damage instead by causing a different type of damage. For example, when you rush a job to meet the deadline, you may succeed at meeting the deadline but make some costly mistakes that will prevent you from enjoying the expected fruit of your work. With relationships, making avoidance or withdrawal your default reaction unless everything clicks right away (or close to there), you will remove the risk but the risk will be removed together with the opportunity. Basically, you will have thrown away the grain alongside the chaff instead of waiting a bit to separate it.

Otherwise I agree in principle that if a relationship keeps making one feel miserable, then one should abstain from that relationship. I say “keeps making” because one should first try think about the causes and try to solve the problem instead of simply concluding that feeling miserable must result in withdrawing like it’s some law.

First off, I am not talking about about anyone’s character or behavior in the argument that you quoted. Second, if you have to preface something with something along the lines of “At the risk of sounding rude,” or “I don’t mean to sound rude,” then chances are what is going to follow is kind of rude. Honestly you do come off as a little rude and if you have to preface something with one of those kind of statement, you either shouldn’t be saying it or you really need to rethink your phrasing.

The problem is that the whole relationship (a very short relationship) has been pretty much saturated with problems. If you go into a relationship and are left anxious and are having problems from the beginning that are causing you enough distress to go on an online forum, chances are it isn’t worth saving. Trust me I have had relationship problems that I have worked through (I am married and have been in long term relationships), but if from the get go there are lots of distressing circumstances and situations, it isn’t worth saving generally. If you develop problems later on in a much more established relationship, then yes, your first action should be working through the problems, but this is a new relationship.

I have been in so many relationships and I regret every one where I was having troubles from the very beginning and ignored them to see if things get better. If it is bad right away, it is best to just walk away. If their relationship was more established and had a foundation, then sure work it out. But their relationship is not this way and should be tossed.

Anyways, I am not going to be drawn into an extended debate like the one that has been going on in this thread so far because, well I don’t have time for that right now. Anyways, I think the best course of action for the OP would to be end the relationship at least for now until they can have a full relationship.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Chevalier, just drop it already…Let it go. All we are discussing is the OP’s reaction to this guy. We’re not even discussing who he is really, because we cannot know. HER REACTIONS are telling her something, whether it’s her problem, his problem, or BOTH of their problems, it’s enough to tell her to stop in her tracks.

Do you get that they have only just begun to date? And that they met on-line? And that he flew her to where he is so she could go to a company party with him? And that she feels anxious and doesn’t trust him?

That is ENOUGH to let this go. If she never met another man for the rest of her life, I would still tell her the same thing.

I don’t know why you picked this thread to exercise your written argument skills, but I’m done.

Sorry, OP, for this long debate that really has little to do with your question. Call a halt to the relationship for now and I guarantee you will not regret it.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know that, EasterJoy, along with all the ACA business. But I also know how normal people can snap (and break) in abnormal circumstances and how easy it is to misinterpret someone’s behaviour (friendly vs romantic interest being a classic but also coldness, hostility, condescension and a couple more are easy favourites), or develop anxiety due to fearing the potential implications of a warning sign. And what’s possible for a normal person is even easier for someone with a mild to moderate issue and few of us are free of any (last time I checked, I certainly wasn’t).

I understand, but there’s a difference between, “get out of the building and be cautious,” and, “run for the hills and trample stuff on your way.”

You’re basing those conclusions on conjecture, no matter how you put it. I agree the guy has red flags and even if his behaviour can be explained he’d still need a bunch of compensating virtues to make it even (which he’s suspected of having, otherwise I might not even started typing), but I honestly feel anxiety myself when I see how easily and how far-going conclusions are made on the basis of such sparse data.

The guy is not in an abnormal circumstance. He’s in a all-too-common bad circumstance that makes him a bad prospect for starting a new relationship–bad for him and bad for her–and he hasn’t done a single thing to indicate that his recovery from his all-too-common bad circumstance is going one bit faster than would be expected. He is not ready to be back on the field. I don’t know why you’re arguing otherwise. If he forces this, he could get himself re-injured and unnecessarily compromise his recovery.

You agree the guy has red flags. I don’t know why you’d encourage a friend to stick around as if that weren’t true, or try to rationalize them away. After all, I’m not saying she ought to change her phone number and go into witness protection! I’m saying she ought to tell him, “Listen, we need to back off, and when you feel you’ve healed enough that you can stop using your last relationship as an excuse to ask me to accept behavior that is not acceptable to me, when you’ve healed enough that you can have some patience yourself instead of convincing me you’re ready to sign on the dotted line after two weeks, then we can try again.”

That is not unfair to him or anyone else. It is the totally rational and reasonable way to handle this. I also hate to point this out, but this fellow may not have issues from which he is going to recover in this lifetime. His self-admitted serious issues need to be out of the way before getting into a courtship, because serious issues have this way of being in the relationship for a lifetime.

Anyway, since you have said upfront in other threads that it is impossible for you to ever be wrong, I’m going to leave the conversation at that, because I’m becoming more and more convinced that you did not write that with your tongue in your cheek. Go ahead and have the last word. I think I’ve made my point, and I’m tired of trying to convince you to drop your case.

 

[EasterJoy]

Chevalier, just drop it already…Let it go. All we are discussing is the OP’s reaction to this guy. We’re not even discussing who he is really, because we cannot know. HER REACTIONS are telling her something, whether it’s her problem, his problem, or BOTH of their problems, it’s enough to tell her to stop in her tracks.

Do you get that they have only just begun to date? And that they met on-line? And that he flew her to where he is so she could go to a company party with him? And that she feels anxious and doesn’t trust him?

That is ENOUGH to let this go. If she never met another man for the rest of her life, I would still tell her the same thing.

I don’t know why you picked this thread to exercise your written argument skills, but I’m done.

Sorry, OP, for this long debate that really has little to do with your question. Call a halt to the relationship for now and I guarantee you will not regret it.

Unfortunately true. The only thing worse than being alone by yourself is being alone in a relationship with someone else who makes you feel even more lonely. She does not have feelings that tend to go away on their own. Feelings like that grow unless the source is removed. Since he can’t or won’t remove the source by changing his behavior, she really does need to remove the source by putting some distance between herself and him. Nothing against him, maybe he can’t help it and maybe he won’t always be like this, but she’s suffering damage right now, and damage that can be of a lasting kind.

 

[chevalier]

First off, I am not talking about about anyone’s character or behavior in the argument that you quoted. Second, if you have to preface something with something along the lines of “At the risk of sounding rude,” or “I don’t mean to sound rude,” then chances are what is going to follow is kind of rude.

Actually, the reason for that opening was that I was replying to a post you addressed to someone else.

and if you have to preface something with one of those kind of statement, you either shouldn’t be saying it or you really need to rethink your phrasing.

Sorry but you aren’t my mum, you know.

The problem is that the whole relationship (a very short relationship) has been pretty much saturated with problems. If you go into a relationship and are left anxious and are having problems from the beginning that are causing you enough distress to go on an online forum, chances are it isn’t worth saving.

Yes, and those chances are high. But there is a difference between chances and a guarantee. Statistically, when you marry, chances are it will end in divorce.

Trust me I have had relationship problems that I have worked through (I am married and have been in long term relationships), but if from the get go there are lots of distressing circumstances and situations, it isn’t worth saving generally.

Yes, in most cases it’s not. But that doesn’t make it right to reconstruct the events in a way most unfavourable to someone, fill gaps with conjecture and so on. Don’t focus on the fact that I said there’s a small chance that the relationship might be worth considering, depending on additional information. See the other thing I’m talking about all the time: go through the assessments of the man’s behaviour and all the accusations levelled against him and ask yourself honestly how solid the base is.

If you develop problems later on in a much more established relationship, then yes, your first action should be working through the problems, but this is a new relationship.

And that’s where I disagree on mathematical grounds. Statistically, bad things have an MTTH. Mean-time-to-happen. Just because something bad happened today it doesn’t mean it will keep repeating itself every day, it may be just that today is the day. Some day has to be the day, be it today or Wednesday next week or 17 June 2015 (or 2045). Problems aren’t made any worse or any more dangerous just because of the fact that they happened earlier in our time sample rather than later.

(Unless you’re simply talking about protecting and saving the investments that you already have made, but honestly the investment of 2-3 years in a relationship is a poor argument in favour of going into a risky marriage, so that way it doesn’t work either.)

I have been in so many relationships and I regret every one where I was having troubles from the very beginning and ignored them to see if things get better.

So do I. But I’ve also walked away from relationships based on conjecture like that and been wrong. Skipped my best friend’s lady cousin pretty much due to interpreting her behaviour as something vaguely close to being cold (though disinterested would have been a better word). I learnt about my error pretty much by accident after years.

Attributing meanings to people’s behaviours is a shaky ground, especially when it involves body language, voice intonation and other typical clues, the more of which you study the more you know that you don’t really know, and need to be cautious with it. The reads we get on people are frequently overestimated.

If it is bad right away, it is best to just walk away. If their relationship was more established and had a foundation, then sure work it out. But their relationship is not this way and should be tossed.

And that’s where we have a fundamental disagreement. The presence of absence of a foundation like you mention, being either the passage of time itself or the Investment Syndrome, does not make a better relationship, let alone a better match. And no, the relationship should not be “tossed”. “Tossed” is an example of the radical language which is associated with radical leaps. Toss away, throw away, run for the hills etc. It also hints at disposability and that’s a worrying notion.

Anyways, I am not going to be drawn into an extended debate like the one that has been going on in this thread so far because, well I don’t have time for that right now.

Somehow, I found the time despite being in the final stages of a demanding Ph.D. programme (one that involves favourable and unfavourable interpretation but let’s not go there). But to each his own.

Anyways, I am not going to be drawn into an extended debate like the one that has been going on in this thread so far because, well I don’t have time for that right now. Anyways, I think the best course of action for the OP would to be end the relationship at least for now] until they can have a full relationship.

So do I, just not “toss it”.

 

[Metropolis]

Sorry but you aren’t my mum, you know.

Somehow, I found the time despite being in the final stages of a demanding Ph.D. programme (one that involves favourable and unfavourable interpretation but let’s not go there). But to each his own.

I am just going to address these two because I will not debate you on this. For the first one I never said I was your Mom I was talking about those kinds of statements in general, not just yours. So you were reading a little too much into it.

For the second part, incredibly rude. You make time for this kind of stuff because you choose to, I choose not to because it is very unimportant to me. I may make time for a few posts in this thread, but other things are way more important to me, so I choose to devote my time for them. I decide to do other things with my time, one of them is going back to school, but I have other things (like house work, art work, family time, ect.) in my life that are way more important to me then having a debate with you in this thread. Sorry man, but I am going to put you on ignore for this comment, I can deal with debate and all that, but this rude comment is out of line. You said you don’t want to go there, but that is exactly what you did.